Rent HDB under Social Visit Pass is LEGAL?

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Plavt
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Post by Plavt » Tue, 14 Sep 2010 7:04 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Boy, was that last sentence a loaded one! :oops:
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ksl
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Post by ksl » Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:32 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:MS, that makes two of us! Looking at your timestamps on some of your posts, I often wonder if you sleep either. Then I remember we are about 3 or 4 hours different. (I only get around 4.5 hours a night anyway. As we get older we don't seem to need as much. :wink:
So that's the reason why i get up every 2 or 3 hrs, age can be a pain in the butt, if you ask me. :roll: I'd rather sleep :oops: So reaper is saying we haven't much time left, use it wisely, wake up ksl or i'll take you with me :mad:

urthebest88
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thanks all

Post by urthebest88 » Tue, 14 Sep 2010 4:53 pm

Thank you guys for all the info, if in that case, if i have a fren is S-Pass holder, he can help us rent a room or even whole units of HDB or condo, then we all stay together with him right? (of course we all have valid social visit pass)

Once again, thanks a lot, and sorry for the multiple thread

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 14 Sep 2010 5:31 pm

Wrong! If your friend rents it for you he become a sub-lessor and he also has to make sure that your have a valid resident pass, else he goes to jail along with you. If you are not on a long term visit pass (LTVP) or some other resident type of pass, you cannot reside in private quarters, but only in commercial premises designed and zoned as such. Otherwise, you and him are in violation of the law. Additionally, he would be putting the actual landlord at risk as well.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: thanks all

Post by Mad Scientist » Wed, 15 Sep 2010 5:30 am

urthebest88 wrote:Thank you guys for all the info, if in that case, if i have a fren is S-Pass holder, he can help us rent a room or even whole units of HDB or condo, then we all stay together with him right? (of course we all have valid social visit pass)

Once again, thanks a lot, and sorry for the multiple thread
Which part of the thread and replies are you not understanding or missing or incomprehensible to you , hmmm.......??
Illegal boarding is a very serious offence for both the tenant, sub tenant , landlord and the likes. The bat smacks both ways and it hurts. If you are caught, you will definitely receive a first class ticket home after the fine and jail house rock of course.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Post by Strong Eagle » Wed, 15 Sep 2010 7:38 am

This does become more of a gray area. After all, when I first came to Singapore, I stayed with friends at their house, and not in a hotel. Of course, my intention was a social visit, and a kick off point for other countries in Asia. I put the residential address as my place of stay on the white card.

Having said that, it is clear that the intent here is to circumvent the law. It is interesting to ask, however, where does the line get crossed. For example, if the 'fren' was already renting a place, could they stay with him for some period of time, as I stayed with my friends?

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Post by Mad Scientist » Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:13 am

SE

I got this from a case last year about HDB rules. If you are on social visit pass you are not allowed. I understand this goes to private condos too
Even number of occupants are stated explicitly

Policies - Subletting of Whole (HDB Approved Flat)

If you do not meet the MOP for subletting, you are still allowed to sublet your whole flat if you fall under any one of the following circumstances :

You are living in quarters provided by employer
-You/your spouse, your family members or authorised occupiers, are all staying in quarters provided by your employers.
You are going overseas to work or study
· You/your spouse are going overseas to work or study and the entire family will be going along, or you are leaving behind family members who cannot take care of themselves and who will be moving out of the flat.
You are living in commercial properties
· You/your spouse are tenants, subtenants or owners of commercial property with living quarters and you have to stay there, with your family members, to look after the business.
Other circumstances
· You are the sole owners and occupiers of the flats and need care from relatives because of illness; or
· You are the sole owners and occupiers of the flat and are hospitalised for more than six months; or
· The flat owners have passed away and left behind an orphaned minor child (i.e. child under 21 years of age). The guardian or public trustee of the minor child may sublet the whole flat.


Eligibility of Subtenants

Permitted Subtenants
1. Singapore citizens;
2. Singapore permanent residents;
3. Non-citizens legally residing in Singapore [holders of Employment Passes, S Passes, Work Permits, Student Passes, Dependant Passes, Professional Visit Passes, Long Term Social Visit Passes (6 months and above)].
If the subtenants are non-citizens, you can verify their immigration status at the Immigration & Checkpoints Authority's VERIFI website.

Non-Permitted Subtenants
1. Non-Malaysian foreign construction workers;
2. Owners or tenants of existing HDB flats, except for
· Owners/tenants who are divorced/legally separated. However, only one of the divorced/legally separated parties is eligible to be a subtenant;
· Owners who are eligible to sublet their whole HDB flat. However, (i) they must sublet their own flat within one month after they have rented an HDB flat from other flat owner or (ii) they are not able to rent out their own flat as there are other occupiers remaining behind;
3. Owners of existing Executive condominium units where the 5-year minimum occupation period has not been met.
Corporate Subtenants
Owners may sublet their flat to a corporate body to house its employees. However, they must :
1. Ensure that the company allows only persons who meet the eligibility conditions of subtenants to stay in the flat (hereinafter referred to as the occupiers);
2. Provide the particulars of the occupiers in the subletting application form;
3. Ensure that only authorised occupiers who are registered with HDB are staying in the flat;
4. Ensure that non-citizen occupiers have lawfully entered Singapore and are lawfully allowed to remain in Singapore;
5. Ensure that the occupiers comply with all the terms and conditions of subletting; and
6. Ensure that the occupiers vacate the premises upon termination of subletting or in the event that the subletting approval is revoked by HDB.

Maximum Number of Subtenants

The maximum number of subtenants allowed in each flat is :

· 4 persons for 1-room and 2-room flats
· 6 persons for 3-room flats
· 9 persons for 4-room and bigger flats

Terms & Conditions
Validity Period of Subletting
Permission to sublet is granted for a maximum period of 3 years subject to review. For subletting under the reason of overseas employment or study, the permission to sublet is granted for the entire duration of owners' stay overseas. Consent may be revoked at any time by HDB giving 2 weeks notice.

Flat Owners’ Responsibilities
As a flat owner subletting your flat, you will be responsible for:

· making sure the flat is sublet to eligible subtenants only
· making sure that there is no over crowding and that the number of subtenants does not exceed the maximum number allowed
· making sure that your subtenants have entered and are remaining in Singapore lawfully at all times while the subletting is in force
· making sure that your subtenants do not further sublet the flat to other persons
· making sure that your subtenants comply with all the covenants in the lease and the provisions of the Housing & Development Act and be responsible for all infringements committed by them
· informing the Comptroller of Property Tax of the subletting, and HDB of any changes in the subletting
· resuming occupation of your flat and ensuring your subtenants vacate the premises when the subletting is terminated or when you are no longer eligible to sublet your flat
· surrendering the flat in the event that the flat is repossessed by the HDB

Note: Owners who have sublet their flats will have to satisfy the full requisite occupation period/time bar specified by HDB before they are eligible for any of the above.
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:26 am

Strong Eagle wrote:This does become more of a gray area. After all, when I first came to Singapore, I stayed with friends at their house, and not in a hotel. Of course, my intention was a social visit, and a kick off point for other countries in Asia. I put the residential address as my place of stay on the white card.

Having said that, it is clear that the intent here is to circumvent the law. It is interesting to ask, however, where does the line get crossed. For example, if the 'fren' was already renting a place, could they stay with him for some period of time, as I stayed with my friends?
SE, I'd agree with you on this. Up till you made your first visa run. After that, all bets would be off.

Additionally, considering that the average "visit" to Singapore by a tourist is 3.5 days, I would think stretching it to 30/60/90 days would be pushing the envelope a wee bit! Might get away with it for a while and frankly, not sure how closely these things are checked or even if the disembarkation card address is even checked to see if it's a commercial address or residential address. Probably would never be unless there were complaints about the unit/property occupants.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Strong Eagle » Wed, 15 Sep 2010 1:30 pm

And... I just thought of something else... I paid no rent during my stay... bought groceries and booze... but no rent.

Also agree about 60 or 90 days.

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Re: thanks all

Post by thismyvoice » Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:13 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:
urthebest88 wrote:Thank you guys for all the info, if in that case, if i have a fren is S-Pass holder, he can help us rent a room or even whole units of HDB or condo, then we all stay together with him right? (of course we all have valid social visit pass)

Once again, thanks a lot, and sorry for the multiple thread
Which part of the thread and replies are you not understanding or missing or incomprehensible to you , hmmm.......??
Illegal boarding is a very serious offence for both the tenant, sub tenant , landlord and the likes. The bat smacks both ways and it hurts. If you are caught, you will definitely receive a first class ticket home after the fine and jail house rock of course.
First flight home yes, first class ticket nope. Singapore is not so generous. :D

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Post by ksl » Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:50 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:And... I just thought of something else... I paid no rent during my stay... bought groceries and booze... but no rent.

Also agree about 60 or 90 days.
I would think you are legal until you pass money to the owner of the HDB, HDB and Council housing is very much the same.....The welfare system being what it is in UK is abused all the time.

As a non married tenant for example, who is subsidised by cheap rent, a person is deemed residential if staying there more than 3 days a week without prior permission most have live in boy friends.

Of course both parties drawing welfare make a killing, that's why the divorce rate went up in UK...Both get Council housing and subsidies and are still living in one home.

SE case I would say is legal for a period of time only if he doesn't pay the tenant money, then the tenant would be expected to seek permission from HDB if the person is visiting on a social visit pass for a longer stay. There will be set rules for visitors and i would expect prior permission is required if the premises are subsidised.

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