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Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:32 pm

curiousgeorge wrote:It's a badge that says "this is where I came from", not a matter of "where my loyalties lies now".

Loyalties can be shared over two or more countries but by their nature they simply can not be enforced. Trying to do so one would get something just opposite.

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Postby morenangpinay » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:32 pm

Plus this:

From 30 August, private property owners who want to buy a flat from the Housing and Development Board (HDB) would have to sell their private property within six months.

The regulation also applies to those who own property outside of Singapore.


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1078756/1/.html

you have to sell your property overseas if you plan to buy HDB..

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:52 pm

morenangpinay wrote:Plus this:

From 30 August, private property owners who want to buy a flat from the Housing and Development Board (HDB) would have to sell their private property within six months.

The regulation also applies to those who own property outside of Singapore.


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1078756/1/.html

you have to sell your property overseas if you plan to buy HDB..


that is very troubling; it's too invasive of one's private life and liberties imho. on the bright side, how the hell can they check if one has property outside of singapore?

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Postby FlyingScotsman » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:56 pm

morenangpinay wrote:Plus this:

From 30 August, private property owners who want to buy a flat from the Housing and Development Board (HDB) would have to sell their private property within six months.

The regulation also applies to those who own property outside of Singapore.


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1078756/1/.html

you have to sell your property overseas if you plan to buy HDB..


I don't get this guy at all : from Today newspaper yesterday.


"Over at The Minton showflat on Hougang Avenue 3 at 11.30am yesterday, Mr xxxx, 34, an assistant manager of an offshore oil company, was one of two families there.

He told MediaCorp that he was currently renting out his executive condominium (EC) unit and had planned to buy an HDB flat to live in."



How could he ever have been allowed to buy an HDB and deprive a poor person of a roof over their head?

I do not understand selfishness like this, but maybe I am missing something?
Hey ho...

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Postby ksl » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 4:15 pm

carteki wrote:I read the comments in the paper and wondered what the reaction on the board was going to be...

Maybe the statement is just intended to scare intended pr applicants away and placate the masses and not really going to be enforced, but on the other hand how do PR's define that they're committed to SG if they maintain the luxury of a "bolt hole" of their original countries which citizens do not?


That maybe true, though it is sending out the wrong message, it shows a total lack of diplomacy and causes many people to worry.

My own 2cents, is that there are several categories of PR, and the remarks have been made to create a debate just like we are doing, this website is obviously very valuable for the feedback to government along with others.
I suspect that PR's contributing to the growth of Singapore, will not be singled out, for citizenship, but employed PR's will be.

It was pretty obvious to me before I posted how significant the statement is for cleaning up the lose ends in Singapore.

Economical bubbles are created by speculators, investment vehicles and edge funds, the government cannot do so much about the investment vehicles, however they can control the after effects of bubbles, by regulating Citizen and PR activity in property markets.

In all fairness expatriates that found the condominium prices too high, ventured into the HDB sector, pushing up rental costs, which also effects locals. So the whole scenario I believe is well planned to measure reaction, before choosing the route to take to manage a better Singapore and calm the waters so to speak. Rents should start cooling off, speculators are crying and the locals are shouting for joy! The business Pr's don't worry if you are producing to the economy I guess you will be left alone! That's unless your Singaporean spouse want's rid of you :shock: :(
Last edited by ksl on Tue, 07 Sep 2010 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 6:00 pm

carteki wrote:I'm not sure that these measures are going to solve the problem. People are less nationalistic than ever and tend to follow the money/sun/.... The passport a person holds doesn't indicate where their sympathies lie - it is merely a means to an end (ease of movement - which is the shortest queue etc). By having to "choose one" the govt is forcing a decision usually away from the most restrictive option.


It will not solve the problem. Years ago the Gahmen brought in Korean girls to work here in large numbers, then Vietnamese girls . They did not settle in well in Singapore and most of them returned back to Singapore.
To be loyal to one country comes from the heart. One must have passion and the belief that this country is worth dying for.
I am not sure with this move. We did this paper on Foreign National Assimilation Program in the 80s, and the acid test were not encouraging
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Postby Asian_Geekette » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 6:26 pm

If those PRs who are forced to convert and does not want to, then they'll leave Singapore and take out their contributions from the CPF. Would that put a significant dent in the fund? Or not that much? Just wondering... :roll:
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 7:59 pm

The CPF won't matter but the income tax revenue will take a substantial hit. So will the stamp duties, if as they claim, expats are driving up property prices.

Actually, that's not true and this was brought out just recently as well. The percentage of PR buying HDB on the resale market is less than 15%. 15% of resale flats is not going to affect the whole market one iota. And the condo? most are owned by locals (who are living in HDB flats and renting out the condos to expats at inflated prices.) So it would seem that it is Singaporeans who are really driving up the market and not the expats.

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Postby morenangpinay » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 9:00 pm

imho foreigners will never be assimilated fully in singapore because the locals arent very accepting. No matter what your status is PR or citizen, you will always be looked at as a foreigner. the locals vs. foreigners mentality must change first

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Postby ksl » Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:48 am

So it would seem that it is Singaporeans who are really driving up the market and not the expats.
This is very true, though it is typical greed and speculation on the Singaporeans part, that create the bubbles, hence the gahman dropping the axe, they don't want a scenario like Europe and the USA had, I had that information from a reliable banker. The party is over!

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Postby Splatted » Wed, 08 Sep 2010 1:58 am

Quite of lot of health care professionals are PR. There are lots of in-demand areas that Singapore still wants to attract people from overseas, that are at present employing heaps of PR's.

If suddenly everyone packed their bags and left, imagine the chaos. eg, not enough nurses or pharmacists for hospitals to even run safely.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 08 Sep 2010 4:11 am

Splatted wrote:Quite of lot of health care professionals are PR. There are lots of in-demand areas that Singapore still wants to attract people from overseas, that are at present employing heaps of PR's.

If suddenly everyone packed their bags and left, imagine the chaos. eg, not enough nurses or pharmacists for hospitals to even run safely.


I do not think the Gahmen worries too much about those leaving SG. The supply is more than the demand. That is one thing that this PAP Gahmen has which many gahmen all over the world lacking. The liquid asset and the gold reserve plus GIC Inc companies are doing very well all over the world. As such it is only a matter of how much you want to pay for the foreign talent. Economic recession, Sars, H1NI, Nipah Virus, 1997 market crash all were being absorbed and handle with less impact to the economy. Yes, it does affect but far less compared to many countries

On the subject of PR as I said b4 how passionate those PR about being a Sger. Are they prepared to set their roots here? Do they feel welcome by the locals? What made them relinquish their own citizenship for SG citizenship? All of these are valid questions and more.
On the flip side of the coin, what made Sger let go their SG Citizenship for foreign ones?
If you observe Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, the public show their loves for the country by flying their National Flags at any social and sports event. You can see in their eyes their passion and their love for the country.
During the Yom Kippur War, how many Israelis living overseas came back to fight for Israel. When the Japs bombed Hawaii, how many Americans volunteered into the US Army. Even the Japanese are prepared to die for the Emperor and Japan. One must have that passion and loyalty being a Sger.
I would not be surprised at all Gahmen agencies are reading all these forums and to see its reaction for GCT comment. This is how National Policies are written from feedbacks, OB marker, grassroots and the man on the street.
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Postby carteki » Wed, 08 Sep 2010 9:28 am

Mad Scientist wrote:I would not be surprised at all Gahmen agencies are reading all these forums and to see its reaction for GCT comment. This is how National Policies are written from feedbacks, OB marker, grassroots and the man on the street.


Would the views of this board be taken into account? Most of us can't vote so it really doesn't matter... (then again can you imagine adding a whole bunch of people brought up outside SG into the voting pool - unintended consequences perhaps?)

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Postby kookaburrah » Wed, 08 Sep 2010 10:57 am

Thank you curiousgeorge. You have saved me a post. EU passport, no children, above threshold here as well. Could not have put it better!

curiousgeorge wrote:To my understanding , the population census states SG are losing more citizen to other countries and low birth rate. To add to it, PR not wanting to set their roots here are making huge impact on the social intergrity , national security etc. We did this paper on national security on PR doing NS and how they intergrate. I guess this is the answer that I have been waiting.
It is NOT WORKING !! :lol:


I was recently awarded PR here, maybe in 2 yrs I will be looking at a letter that says "become citizen or lose PR".
It's a "lot of stick and not much carrot" approach to trying to increase the citizenship count in Singapore! If Singapore is losing so many citizens and PRs don't want to convert, maybe Singapore needs to look at why that is, rather then go the disciplinarian route. We can but dream!

For myself, what do I get in return for citizenship?
1) SG passport...which does nothing that my UK passport doesn't already do
2) Cheaper medical care...except I am lucky enough to enjoy private insurance, so that is one "benefit" that offers nothing
3) Cheaper schooling - no kids, not having any, no benefit to me
4) Can buy HDB...except I am over the income threshold already (and given the govt's PR tactics, I suspect this is the case for a lot of PR) so no HDB for me. This is particularly insidious part of making Citizenship a requirement, and the cynic in me thinks the govt can increase the citizen count by specifying only high earners and also avoid the burden on public housing...all the income without the responsibility for the govt!
5) Can vote. Whoopee.

And it all seems particularly churlish when Singapore doesn't allow Dual Citizenship.

I guess that I have a slight advantage as a British Citizen, that I can renounce "for the purposes of obtaining an alternative citizenship" and then reclaim later, which basically leaves my options to return to the UK open.

But Citizenship is a very emotive subject. For some people, no matter how much they love and support their adoptive country they simply don't want to change their self-identity to the extent of a new citizenship. It's a badge that says "this is where I came from", not a matter of "where my loyalties lies now".[/quote]

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:19 pm

carteki wrote:
Mad Scientist wrote:I would not be surprised at all Gahmen agencies are reading all these forums and to see its reaction for GCT comment. This is how National Policies are written from feedbacks, OB marker, grassroots and the man on the street.


Would the views of this board be taken into account? Most of us can't vote so it really doesn't matter... (then again can you imagine adding a whole bunch of people brought up outside SG into the voting pool - unintended consequences perhaps?)


Probably if there are too much heat , they will take notice.Look at Aljunied GRC on the 2000 election, PAP nearly lost it because they wanted to relocate the Chinese Temple. The Priest wasn't happy ..opposition nearly won it until a compromise was found. Maybe just maybe.......
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