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ksl
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Postby ksl » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 8:36 am

The most irresponsible remark i have heard today, is the one quoted by the Government to encourage more Singapore PR to take up citizenship.

YOU HAVE NO CHOICE. REFUSE CITIZENSHIP AND YOUR STATUS WILL NOT BE RENEWED!

This could be the most damaging remarks to Singapore this century, as if PR's will care! Looks like the Singapore ego is in overdrive, as most that are contrubuting to the economy will have a difference of opinion and will not be blackmailed, I'm pretty sure that the commonsense of the majority will say who cares, you lose! Business will just pull out of Singapore and head for more suitable cross border relationships, resulting in Singaporeans losing their jobs, obviously this over enthusiastic vote puller hasn't been thought through and will damage future relations.

How a person of his stature can be so openly disconnected from public from foreign affairs is beyond me, the News of the World will sell a few more papers than usual in the UK, damaging tourist relations too. It's almost an obscene speach against 500,000 pr's if you ask me! So 50,000 of you are going to get the bullet, can you imagine the discussion going on now in the PR community?

http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/ar ... id=4318991
Last edited by ksl on Tue, 07 Sep 2010 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby earthfriendly » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 8:51 am

I only read the beginning of the article and already does not sound pretty. Govt undersands that SG needs foreigh talent but the citizenry does not. Govt allows huge influx of foreigner while Singaporeans feel squeezed (imaginary or real?) and treated like second class citizens by their own govt. To pacify the general public, they are coming up with such drastic measures.

There's got to be a better solution to introduce foreign talent into this country without making the citizens feel left out. But how and what?

Sorry to all the wonderful expats, I really don't mean to be divisive with the overuse of term "foreigner". It is due to a lack of better word.

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Postby ksl » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 9:02 am

Well maybe the strategy is to insult the foreign expats, enough that all Countries react by repatriating all Singaporeans, this is politics and I am pretty sure, it will not go down well, in the outside world. All those ex NS absconders will be sweating it out if other governments react in a tit for tat response, I find the statement very undiplomatic to be quite honest on the verge of insulting and uncool, not many PR's will wish to be compared to that kind of person :roll:

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Postby earthfriendly » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 9:20 am

It is totally uncool. I have lots of respect for GCT and his vision of a more caring society. Why is he going down this route? I am scratching my head. I believe the goodness that runs within the hearts of many Singaporeans. Please let our heads prevail. We have to work hard not to let this kind of mob mentality and fear engulf us.

And there may even be the good PRs (who may eventually take up citizenship on their own free will) who feel compelled to depart as they do not like being cornered like that. Think of the loss to the country.

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ksl
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Postby ksl » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 9:43 am

earthfriendly wrote:It is totally uncool. I have lots of respect for GCT and his vision of a more caring society. Why is he going down this route? I am scratching my head. I believe the goodness that runs within the hearts of many Singaporeans. Please let our heads prevail. We have to work hard not to let this kind of mob mentality and fear engulf us.

And there may even be the good PRs (who may eventually take up citizenship on their own free will) who feel compelled to depart as they do not like being cornered like that. Think of the loss to the country.


Yes I quite agree, the statement appears to be emotional and irrational and quite damaging, if other news papers get a hold of it around the world, it will have a negative effect on tourism as well has he points out that all they want is the money from the PR's and the foreign vistitors, sounds more like a statement one would expect from ah beng! :roll:

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Postby carteki » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 9:49 am

I read the comments in the paper and wondered what the reaction on the board was going to be...

Maybe the statement is just intended to scare intended pr applicants away and placate the masses and not really going to be enforced, but on the other hand how do PR's define that they're committed to SG if they maintain the luxury of a "bolt hole" of their original countries which citizens do not?

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:18 am

carteki wrote:I read the comments in the paper and wondered what the reaction on the board was going to be...

Maybe the statement is just intended to scare intended pr applicants away and placate the masses and not really going to be enforced, but on the other hand how do PR's define that they're committed to SG if they maintain the luxury of a "bolt hole" of their original countries which citizens do not?


How i see it is that some PRs are PRs because they intend to stay in Singapore for the rest of their working lives but when retirement day comes, there's no place like home. And since Singapore doesn't allow dual citizenship...you get the picture.

Some people see Singapore as a nice place to work but not very good for retiring in. So, if one takes Singapore citizenship, it's implied that it's a one way street or that regaining one's original citizenship is dicey. :?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:25 am

carteki,

Good point. However, there is something else that has not been investigated as it's not policy yet and probably hasn't been fleshed out yet. That is something based on your "committed" comment. Do you think I'm committed? I been here almost 30 years. My son is getting ready to go into NS! Bolt Hole? In two years I'll retire and return home after my son finishes his duty. It's his life after that and if he wants to stay here, he can or he can follow me. His choice. If anything I'm actually helping the country as after I become non-productive here, I will be leaving, thereby freeing up space for a new generation of productive people.

On the flip side though, It might be a good idea for those who are here and have taken up PR using the PTS scheme, even long term and have not made their offspring PR's to be put under the microscope as these obviously are here for the money and abusing the system (because of sons & NS). These people should be sent packing frankly and I would have to agree. There are two different types of PR's here and I think a distinction would have to be considered. But I think it was thrown out there for the express purpose of generating discussion as they well knew it would.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:32 am

nakatago wrote:How i see it is that some PRs are PRs because they intend to stay in Singapore for the rest of their working lives but when retirement day comes, there's no place like home. And since Singapore doesn't allow dual citizenship...you get the picture.


Perxactly! :wink:

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:47 am

ksl wrote:Well maybe the strategy is to insult the foreign expats, enough that all Countries react by repatriating all Singaporeans, this is politics and I am pretty sure, it will not go down well, in the outside world. All those ex NS absconders will be sweating it out if other governments react in a tit for tat response, I find the statement very undiplomatic to be quite honest on the verge of insulting and uncool, not many PR's will wish to be compared to that kind of person :roll:


It is already on the white paper. Just need someone to dish out the bad news. This is pretty standard on how the Gahmen modus operandi works
To my understanding , the population census states SG are losing more citizen to other countries and low birth rate. To add to it, PR not wanting to set their roots here are making huge impact on the social intergrity , national security etc. We did this paper on national security on PR doing NS and how they intergrate. I guess this is the answer that I have been waiting.
It is NOT WORKING !! :lol:
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby carteki » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:21 am

Natago wrote:How i see it is that some PRs are PRs because they intend to stay in Singapore for the rest of their working lives but when retirement day comes, there's no place like home.

Guess its just the way different people see things. Some countries actively encourage Retiree's (with money) to come and live there (Cayman is one).

sundaymorningstaple wrote:In two years I'll retire and return home after my son finishes his duty. It's his life after that and if he wants to stay here, he can or he can follow me. His choice.


Your son has far more incentive to leave Singapore than one where the parents stay in SG. And I'm not sure you could ever become a "non-productive member of the community" - even babysitting the grandkids is a valuable service.

Mad Scientist wrote:To my understanding , the population census states SG are losing more citizen to other countries and low birth rate. To add to it, PR not wanting to set their roots here


I'm not sure that these measures are going to solve the problem. People are less nationalistic than ever and tend to follow the money/sun/.... The passport a person holds doesn't indicate where their sympathies lie - it is merely a means to an end (ease of movement - which is the shortest queue etc). By having to "choose one" the govt is forcing a decision usually away from the most restrictive option.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:35 am

carteki wrote:Maybe the statement is just intended to scare intended pr applicants away and placate the masses and not really going to be enforced, but on the other hand how do PR's define that they're committed to SG if they maintain the luxury of a "bolt hole" of their original countries which citizens do not?


Probably the most valuable PRs or the candidates would be scared away this way. Educated people from well or reasonably developed countries who would not agree to give up their citizenship (as this is the main problem). I am also constantly surprised that with the current policy banning dual citizenship they do not see the basic consequence of attracting ppl either highly opportunistic or of questionable loyalty so how any level of voluntary commitment may be here expected?

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Postby curiousgeorge » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:08 pm

To my understanding , the population census states SG are losing more citizen to other countries and low birth rate. To add to it, PR not wanting to set their roots here are making huge impact on the social intergrity , national security etc. We did this paper on national security on PR doing NS and how they intergrate. I guess this is the answer that I have been waiting.
It is NOT WORKING !! :lol:[/quote]

I was recently awarded PR here, maybe in 2 yrs I will be looking at a letter that says "become citizen or lose PR".
It's a "lot of stick and not much carrot" approach to trying to increase the citizenship count in Singapore! If Singapore is losing so many citizens and PRs don't want to convert, maybe Singapore needs to look at why that is, rather then go the disciplinarian route. We can but dream!

For myself, what do I get in return for citizenship?
1) SG passport...which does nothing that my UK passport doesn't already do
2) Cheaper medical care...except I am lucky enough to enjoy private insurance, so that is one "benefit" that offers nothing
3) Cheaper schooling - no kids, not having any, no benefit to me
4) Can buy HDB...except I am over the income threshold already (and given the govt's PR tactics, I suspect this is the case for a lot of PR) so no HDB for me. This is particularly insidious part of making Citizenship a requirement, and the cynic in me thinks the govt can increase the citizen count by specifying only high earners and also avoid the burden on public housing...all the income without the responsibility for the govt!
5) Can vote. Whoopee.

And it all seems particularly churlish when Singapore doesn't allow Dual Citizenship.

I guess that I have a slight advantage as a British Citizen, that I can renounce "for the purposes of obtaining an alternative citizenship" and then reclaim later, which basically leaves my options to return to the UK open.

But Citizenship is a very emotive subject. For some people, no matter how much they love and support their adoptive country they simply don't want to change their self-identity to the extent of a new citizenship. It's a badge that says "this is where I came from", not a matter of "where my loyalties lies now".

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Postby revhappy » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:19 pm

Imagine you are from India, China, USA, Australia or Indonesia and you are free to travel and live anywhere within your country for 1000 of kms/miles.

All of a sudden you change your citizenship and you can travel only within a city 40 kms east-west 25 kms north -south. :shock: That very thought is enough to scare off anyone from taking up citizenship. Not that you cant get a visa to travel out of SG, it is a restriction nevertheless.

Also SG is not self sufficient it depends on the world for everything. Come on who in the right sense of mind will give up their citizenship?

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:26 pm

curiousgeorge wrote:It's a "lot of stick and not much carrot" approach


what do you expect from an entity who can't maturely handle criticism? :P


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