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Is it a "MUST" to have at least a degree in singapore?

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nakatago
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Postby nakatago » Wed, 01 Sep 2010 11:23 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
sharpz wrote:
Hmm.. seems like we're turning this thread into a chat room now.. hope I'm not breaking any forum rules here.. :S


Wat chu talkin' 'bout holmes!

This is one of the better exchanges of ideas/attitudes we've had without it descending into the pits! I wish they all could remain as as open & restrained at the same time as this one is. :wink:



yeah? well, yo mama is so... :P


QRM wrote:
sharpz wrote: But I still provide because it is my duty as a son. I'm a social contract believer myself.


Hmm maybe I should have 10-15 kids and make sure they all are brought up in Asia, I can spend my retirement days zimmer framing around to all their houses getting a cup of tea and pay back cash.

Is it OK to squeeze cash out of grand children once they start work or is that pushing the boat out a bit too far?


that's what most asians think. but in a country like mine, that backfired big time on some households. sure, it was ok during the 50's and the 60's but things turned sour in the 70's. bad luck, parents becoming complacent, the kids becoming overburdened, some kids turning out to be dead beats...i'm sure there are similar stories elsewhere.

the ideal scenario would be the parents planning ahead so as not to burden their kids but the kids love their parents so much that they insist giving anyway and both sides work out a compromise...

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 4:11 am

JR8 wrote:
sharpz wrote:
longstebe wrote:It's not what you know, it's who you know.


Network, another important mechanism in the real world. Internal recommendations can really smoothen things up, a lot. You get to bypass the automated filtering process, get to desired department and position, and skip certain stages of interviews. Even in business, network is everything. This is where most 'exam robots' failed epicly haha..

Always loved the Jack Donaghy's quote from 30 rock,
Jack Donaghy: Those are your new interns.
Liz Lemon: Aren’t they a little old and over-dressed?
Jack Donaghy: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off in the economic crash that Nancy Pelosi caused. They’ve got zero real-world skills, but, God, they work hard.




Genuine LOl! thanks

p.s. As a trader I always thought investment bankers were pussies too :wink:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZEBz01t5vg
CBOT Trading Soybean market pit trading.



Ah reminiscing. Hard but fair. You see newbies commenting on these Youtube clips 'It's mad, how do they know what they're doing, I don't understand, they're crazy'

But it's not. It is beautiful and perfect :)

'Your job this 2 minutes is to go and sell 20 at 10 and 10 at 11'. Do it!

I can't imgaine a clearer job spec., or a more transparent way to do it. You will note that no one in the vid looks in the slightest confused... it is only the viewer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UXomMnQKT4
Floored: Standing in the Twilight of Open Outcry.

hehehe... happy memories of a world gone by... :)

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Postby sharpz » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 10:04 am

QRM wrote:
sharpz wrote: But I still provide because it is my duty as a son. I'm a social contract believer myself.


Hmm maybe I should have 10-15 kids and make sure they all are brought up in Asia, I can spend my retirement days zimmer framing around to all their houses getting a cup of tea and pay back cash.

Is it OK to squeeze cash out of grand children once they start work or is that pushing the boat out a bit too far?



Well if you are able to raise 10-15 kids with appropriately and zero negligence, I'm pretty sure you can expect warm fuzzy retirement and houseful of grandchildren attending your funeral.

But that's not quite the gist of the asian's traditional culture though. Parents raised their kids without expecting any return and kids payback despite they know parents don't want anything from them. Risk and reward doesn't really applies here. I still recall the moment my parents told me they're can RIP during my graduation lol..

Well, I do admit it's a dying tradition but I would gladly embrace its beauty and keep it alive.
"I rather fail spectacularly than to succeed minimally." - Lex Luthor

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Postby therat » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:16 am

in singapore, everything is cerf.
All are paper related

My boss has drop hint to me. When will I going to take my degree.
Seem like I can't move up to senior post unless I had a degree.
I feel like asking him. How much will you pay me to get this degree.

I spend 10 yrs to work all the way up from a Technician to a engineer. So what, if I don't have a degree.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 12:41 pm

therat wrote:
I spend 10 yrs to work all the way up from a Technician to a engineer. So what, if I don't have a degree.


Simple question will answer your post.

You say you are an engineer? Can you sign off as an engineer on a project? If not, you are still a technician. Only a degree'd engineer can sign off projects. Therein lies the problem. Once you have that sheepskin it supports the knowledge and also fulfills the legal protocol required on project sites or design briefs.

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Postby ksl » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 1:42 pm

SMS is correct, accountability is required, so a degree will help to narrow down the problems, however in real life, there are many unqualified people that do a better job than many degree holders, and just to prove a point, negligence is everywhere degrees do not hide the facts!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10729545

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 661835.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/811421.stm

Though if you want to be successful and independent do a good job and start your own business at the end of the day its all about making money, nobody likes to work, though it helps if you can do your hobby.

The system of learning will always be open to abuse, cheating and negligence, though some people have shown to do a better job than qualified people, its still a crime, if a degree is needed to carry out the job.

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 2:31 pm

i think therat is an IT type of engineer, in which, like the mythbusters always say, "failure is always an option!"

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Postby QRM » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 2:33 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
therat wrote:
I spend 10 yrs to work all the way up from a Technician to a engineer. So what, if I don't have a degree.


Simple question will answer your post.

You say you are an engineer? Can you sign off as an engineer on a project? If not, you are still a technician. Only a degree'd engineer can sign off projects. Therein lies the problem. Once you have that sheepskin it supports the knowledge and also fulfills the legal protocol required on project sites or design briefs.


Ironically enough I have often been told NOT to get the final qualification in Architecture. There is no legal requirement to have a architect on a building project, even the word "architect" has been replace by "Contract administrator" on building contracts. You can work as an "architectural consultant' and do everything an architect can do except calling yourself an Architect.

Once qualified, then you become liable for professional negligence claim even if you just give some off hand advice to a chum. As an "architect" you have to maintain mandatory professional liability insurance (which is not cheap) for all your working and non working life.

If you don't have the certificate and things go horribly wrong you can in theory just shrug your shoulder. There are a number of well known designers of building who have not completed the final exams.

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Postby Girl_Next_Door » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 2:59 pm

nakatago wrote:
but that's not the asian way. just got off the phone with my mom. guess what we ended up discussing.


Discussing or arguing? :P

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 4:43 pm

QRM wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
therat wrote:
I spend 10 yrs to work all the way up from a Technician to a engineer. So what, if I don't have a degree.


Simple question will answer your post.

You say you are an engineer? Can you sign off as an engineer on a project? If not, you are still a technician. Only a degree'd engineer can sign off projects. Therein lies the problem. Once you have that sheepskin it supports the knowledge and also fulfills the legal protocol required on project sites or design briefs.


Ironically enough I have often been told NOT to get the final qualification in Architecture. There is no legal requirement to have a architect on a building project, even the word "architect" has been replace by "Contract administrator" on building contracts. You can work as an "architectural consultant' and do everything an architect can do except calling yourself an Architect.

Once qualified, then you become liable for professional negligence claim even if you just give some off hand advice to a chum. As an "architect" you have to maintain mandatory professional liability insurance (which is not cheap) for all your working and non working life.

If you don't have the certificate and things go horribly wrong you can in theory just shrug your shoulder. There are a number of well known designers of building who have not completed the final exams.


You can be nailed for advice given to a friend? Wow.

In scuba diving (as a pro) you have to renew your cert card each year, that then entitles you to teach or guide. But even if you let it lapse you are still either an instructor or DM just the same, just 'out of license'.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 4:58 pm

sharpz wrote: But I still provide because it is my duty as a son. I'm a social contract believer myself.

...
Well if you are able to raise 10-15 kids with appropriately and zero negligence, I'm pretty sure you can expect warm fuzzy retirement and houseful of grandchildren attending your funeral.

But that's not quite the gist of the asian's traditional culture though. Parents raised their kids without expecting any return and kids payback despite they know parents don't want anything from them. Risk and reward doesn't really applies here. I still recall the moment my parents told me they're can RIP during my graduation lol..

Well, I do admit it's a dying tradition but I would gladly embrace its beauty and keep it alive.




You write 'Duty', 'social contract', and 'payback', but then you say 'Parents raised their kids without expecting any return'.

Something isn't adding up here!

p.s. when did this 'contract' get signed, in the womb? ;)

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Postby QRM » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 5:02 pm

JR8 wrote: You can be nailed for advice given to a friend? Wow.


Yup, an example a chum buy a new house and over dinner you say it would be great if you take that wall down and open up the living room. The next day your mate takes a sledge hammer and knocks the wall down. The building collapses because it was a structural wall. He is taken to court by the other residents and gets sued, but he has no money, he can then says in court my friend the Architect said I should take that wall down so the blame is shifted to the professional who has or at least should have insurance's to cover the cost of the repair, so all the dagger come out.

I believe Architects are currently the most sued professional.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 5:44 pm

QRM wrote:
JR8 wrote: You can be nailed for advice given to a friend? Wow.


Yup, an example a chum buy a new house and over dinner you say it would be great if you take that wall down and open up the living room. The next day your mate takes a sledge hammer and knocks the wall down. The building collapses because it was a structural wall. He is taken to court by the other residents and gets sued, but he has no money, he can then says in court my friend the Architect said I should take that wall down so the blame is shifted to the professional who has or at least should have insurance's to cover the cost of the repair, so all the dagger come out.

I believe Architects are currently the most sued professional.


That's ridiculous being given a view or opinion does not obviate a need to use a surveyor, abide by building regulation codes, OR USE COMMON SENSE!.... Jeez, no wonder you don't wish for that final sign off.

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Postby ksl » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 9:58 pm

JR8 wrote:
QRM wrote:
JR8 wrote: You can be nailed for advice given to a friend? Wow.


Yup, an example a chum buy a new house and over dinner you say it would be great if you take that wall down and open up the living room. The next day your mate takes a sledge hammer and knocks the wall down. The building collapses because it was a structural wall. He is taken to court by the other residents and gets sued, but he has no money, he can then says in court my friend the Architect said I should take that wall down so the blame is shifted to the professional who has or at least should have insurance's to cover the cost of the repair, so all the dagger come out.

I believe Architects are currently the most sued professional.


That's ridiculous being given a view or opinion does not obviate a need to use a surveyor, abide by building regulation codes, OR USE COMMON SENSE!.... Jeez, no wonder you don't wish for that final sign off.


Many people can be sued, one doesn't have to be a professional, the fact of being negligent is a real threat in any field of work qualified or not.

Take exhibitors at exhibitions we did one, which was a total flop, some people making no sales at all, all because the advertising was totally wrong for a food & beverage exhibition.

Of course i complained and we was reimbursed and given a free exhibition as their advertising was targetted for the wrong type of consumers talk about thick skinned this was a MNC but i was prepared to sue them.

Many exhibitors lost their money as they took it for granted it was just a bad event.

What must home owners are not aware of, is that if they invite a friend home and the friend has an accident in the home, the friend can be liable for accident claims. So must owners and tenants should have cover though you cannot get blood out of a stone a judgement is made and stands, so the wealth you aquire at a later date, can be claimed against if one is not insured.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 11:38 pm

I refuse to believe in this bull.

If you are a friend and come to my home... look at my home.

If you trip on the edge of any frayed carpet well hard bloody luck, look where you are going fool. I'll help you up.

If you want to sue me!... well then F you! I'll knock you down and push your head under the frayed carpet you m*****F*****!

Common sense is not obviated by a few people being utter morons


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