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Is it a "MUST" to have at least a degree in singapore?

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Postby Splatted » Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:08 pm

Asdracles wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:The best Singapore engineers? They are the Polytechnic diploma holders who went on to the UK or Aus to get a 3 year BSc degree. Much better than one's who did the normal 4 years local route to the same degree.


In my university years we used to say about items like the fridge:

An Engineer knows how it works
A Physicist knows why it works
A technician knows how to repair it if it doesn't work

Who do you think will get more job calls?

And yes, yes, I studied Physics, nobody is perfect, even me....


The truck driver who delivers all the fridges from the shop

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Postby sharpz » Sat, 28 Aug 2010 9:48 pm

Interesting topic. Think I could snip in some personal opinion.

To me, qualification is more like a by-product of the pursuit of knowledge and passion. For example, I've always been somewhat attracted to how the financial market works. I figured i should start learning the numbers, hence took accountancy and eventually completed ACCA.

Shortly after I started working, my obsession seems to spread to investments valuation, and so I took CFA which teaches a great deal about investments and frankly speaking, I'm enjoying myself.

My point is, if you're dedicated enough, you would select a relevant qualification and follow through. Anything else might appears to be excuse for those in denial.

About the fridge: Yea i agree technician gets the most calls but Engineer and Physicist could effortlessly earn a lot more than the technician.
"I rather fail spectacularly than to succeed minimally." - Lex Luthor

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:32 pm

sharpz wrote:
About the fridge: Yea i agree technician gets the most calls but Engineer and Physicist could effortlessly earn a lot more than the technician.


In times of economic slowdown, the Engineer and Physicist often finds themselves out of work. The Technician finds he has more work, keeping the old fridges running because the population cannot afford to buy new ones.

When the companies cannot find buyers.......

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Re: Is it a "MUST" to have at least a degree in si

Postby phil30k » Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:38 pm

SGBoyxxx wrote:Ya , I am a singaporean from young we are taught must study and study.
to get highest level of education to get success.

even at workplace sometimes I see those people holding a high post with great certs but can;t get the work done.

Many people I see around me just study for the seek of promotion.
I think isn;t study is to learn new things? new knowledge?

but it seem not in here.

I always read up and saw many people in oversea able to success without any degree.

earn alot .

Whereas in singapore here seem like having a great certs even you don;t know how to get things will success too.Seem like is a "MUST" to have degree to go far in singapore?study for the seek of promotion?not for knowledge?


Hello there SGBoyxxx,

You show a huge degree of maturity (pun not intended :)) by asking that question. What are your options for upgrading your level of education? You're definitely on the right path, seeking to improve yourself and I'd like to think I'm improving too. I'm in the position where I hire people for mid and lower level positions. My point of view should be of interested to you.

Each job carries with it
1. A basic skill set,
2. A capacity to learn specific / related skillsets necessary for the job,
3. A capacity to adapt to the structure of the work place,
4. Self motivation (or interest in the work),
5. The ability to get along with co-workers and
6. Mistake recovery.

What you've studied takes care of the first.

It also suggests how well you'll be able to handle the second. The second is important because you don't everything you need to do your job in school, there will be some degree of on the job learning required. Someone able to learn in school would probably be able to learn on the job skills. This also encompasses related work experience as well as your ability to research a subject.

The third includes how easy transport is, whether you expect aircondition or a moving job etc. This is particularly important where the salary expectations are not fully met.

The fourth is important because while it's your bosses job to motivate you, I'd try to make his job as easy as possible too. This would be important if your boss had not mastered his people management skills.

The fifth is necessary because I'd prefer someone who could indirectly bolster morale by being cheerful, optimistic and compassionate. These traits reduce potential social and non-work related problems arising at the workplace.

The sixth is probably the most important, nobody is perfect and people learn from their mistakes. But the bottom line for bosses is whether you recover from that mistake, learn and not make the same mistake again.

Bottom line, if the consequences of a on the job mistake is huge and cannot be recovered by that staff member, the more important the first and second skills are. If you're applying for a job that requires staff like that, your own abilities in the fourth skill set becomes important as well as managing the third. The fifth is necessary depending on how much interaction the staff has to do with other co-workers.

I hope that helps you gain an insight on your question.

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Postby sharpz » Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:37 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
sharpz wrote:
About the fridge: Yea i agree technician gets the most calls but Engineer and Physicist could effortlessly earn a lot more than the technician.


In times of economic slowdown, the Engineer and Physicist often finds themselves out of work. The Technician finds he has more work, keeping the old fridges running because the population cannot afford to buy new ones.

When the companies cannot find buyers.......


It works both way though, when economic recovery sets in, Engineer (E) & Physicist (P) gets their high paying job back, while Technician (T) will have less calls.

Key difference here is E and P got to where they are by choice, as for T... well I've heard kids saying they wanted to be Batman when they grow up, but T...? ;)
"I rather fail spectacularly than to succeed minimally." - Lex Luthor

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 30 Aug 2010 1:14 am

Meanwhile, the Engineer and Physicist have already had their homes repossessed due to lack of motgage payments during the recession, while the technician still has his home, albeit, maybe not as fancy but at least he still has it. Boy do I know a lot who have lost their home in the past 2 years in the US. :o Course when you live high off the hog, on credit, and somebody pulls the rug out from under the economy, what to do? Even with their higher educations, they still listened to some sweet talking salesman and bank manager who was laughing all the way home, instead of using common sense. They just has to have that Black AMEX and then show it off to their friends over and over! :oops!: :shit: :lol:

I've always heard that the higher you climb the harder you fall. I really don't know. Material things never meant that much to me. Had they done so, I probably wouldn't have left my position in Washington DC lo those many years ago (33 years ago). Much happier knowing almost everything I have is paid for or could be paid for immediately if I so desired. :wink:

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Postby observer » Mon, 30 Aug 2010 8:51 pm

No.
It's common sense - if you try to come in before I go out, I can't go out. And you can't come in! Lose-lose!

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Postby longstebe » Wed, 01 Sep 2010 5:47 am

It's not what you know, it's who you know.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 01 Sep 2010 7:50 am

sharpz wrote:Interesting topic. Think I could snip in some personal opinion.

To me, qualification is more like a by-product of the pursuit of knowledge and passion. For example, I've always been somewhat attracted to how the financial market works. I figured i should start learning the numbers, hence took accountancy and eventually completed ACCA.

Shortly after I started working, my obsession seems to spread to investments valuation, and so I took CFA which teaches a great deal about investments and frankly speaking, I'm enjoying myself.

My point is, if you're dedicated enough, you would select a relevant qualification and follow through. Anything else might appears to be excuse for those in denial.

About the fridge: Yea i agree technician gets the most calls but Engineer and Physicist could effortlessly earn a lot more than the technician.




Hmmm... I dropped out of everything man, crawled into Uni, then dropped out of that too (hey, Gates, Jobs and Branson all did too).

From studying science I watched the Eddie Murphy film Trading Places one night, and KNEW I could do it. So within weeks I dropped out and was floor trading in London...

London... Tokyo ... London ... Tokyo ... Singapore... London... Wall street... London = retired at 35 thank you very much, because I saved my cash rather than flashed it about.

To me, I couldn't give a toss which bits of paper people have, most of it is bullshit in pursuit of hoping to compete with identical unimaginative hopefulls.

The other side is, you spend 5-6 years doing your degree, masters and MBA at huge cost and personal debt, during which time I have been earning a salary and gaining useful real world experience. Outputs - indebted robot who can pass exams, vs. grounded individual who can just get on with things and do what is needed.

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 01 Sep 2010 8:42 am

JR8 wrote:To me, qualification is more like a by-product of the pursuit of knowledge and passion.


unfortunately [for the likes of sgboyxxx], you're not most hiring managers in singapore.

(sigh...)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 01 Sep 2010 8:54 am

And therein, lies the rub. :-|

Unless you are an entrepreneur.

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Postby sharpz » Wed, 01 Sep 2010 2:27 pm

JR8 wrote:
sharpz wrote:Interesting topic. Think I could snip in some personal opinion.

To me, qualification is more like a by-product of the pursuit of knowledge and passion. For example, I've always been somewhat attracted to how the financial market works. I figured i should start learning the numbers, hence took accountancy and eventually completed ACCA.

Shortly after I started working, my obsession seems to spread to investments valuation, and so I took CFA which teaches a great deal about investments and frankly speaking, I'm enjoying myself.

My point is, if you're dedicated enough, you would select a relevant qualification and follow through. Anything else might appears to be excuse for those in denial.

About the fridge: Yea i agree technician gets the most calls but Engineer and Physicist could effortlessly earn a lot more than the technician.




Hmmm... I dropped out of everything man, crawled into Uni, then dropped out of that too (hey, Gates, Jobs and Branson all did too).

From studying science I watched the Eddie Murphy film Trading Places one night, and KNEW I could do it. So within weeks I dropped out and was floor trading in London...

London... Tokyo ... London ... Tokyo ... Singapore... London... Wall street... London = retired at 35 thank you very much, because I saved my cash rather than flashed it about.

To me, I couldn't give a toss which bits of paper people have, most of it is bullshit in pursuit of hoping to compete with identical unimaginative hopefulls.

The other side is, you spend 5-6 years doing your degree, masters and MBA at huge cost and personal debt, during which time I have been earning a salary and gaining useful real world experience. Outputs - indebted robot who can pass exams, vs. grounded individual who can just get on with things and do what is needed.


Yea and Einstein was once suspected of suffering from Dyslexia.There are always extra-ordinary talents and potentials that can't be developed using conventional education. Branson, Steven, Gates (and you) all dropped out once they discovered they would perform way better than what conventional education could possibly offer. You being able to endure the trader's life all the way till 35, that's really impressive. My trader friends' monthly income easily exceed my annual salary, but most of them burnt out within the first 1-2 years due to the roughness and level of stress. So yea you totally deserve your early retirement. Trading is one of the line where street smart is king and I agree qualifications carry none/minimal weight. There is no way you can teach any kid in University the 10 years experience of a floor trader.

But that only applies to extra-ordinary people like you, and I'm just an ordinary person who rely and benefit from conventional education. As a single child from a family which my parents are separated, i have to foot living expenses for each parents while supporting my own living and education expenses. I do not have the luxury of jumping into non-conventional method without considering the risks and uncertainties associated behind. Part of the reason i took ACCA and CFA is that i could do it part time and are probably the best bang for buck i could get for the desired knowledge (CFA = USD 3.3K in total vs MBA = > USD 300K) and hopefully increase my chance in competing with identical unimaginative hopefulls.. Or maybe I'm just making up excuses for my unwillingness to venture into road less taken.

And to be honest i don't give a toss which bits of paper too, I don't even know where i placed my ACCA completion cert. As mentioned before, I just wanted to learn more. But at end of the day, externality bites in where you're competing with others with MBA for your dream job, you will be on the disadvantage side if you have nothing at all. And for those who took the exam for the sake of getting the recognition, we all would more or less know how things would turn out for them. Cheers :)
"I rather fail spectacularly than to succeed minimally." - Lex Luthor

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 01 Sep 2010 2:59 pm

sharpz,

How do you measure success? :-|

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Postby sharpz » Wed, 01 Sep 2010 3:08 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Meanwhile, the Engineer and Physicist have already had their homes repossessed due to lack of motgage payments during the recession, while the technician still has his home, albeit, maybe not as fancy but at least he still has it. Boy do I know a lot who have lost their home in the past 2 years in the US. :o Course when you live high off the hog, on credit, and somebody pulls the rug out from under the economy, what to do? Even with their higher educations, they still listened to some sweet talking salesman and bank manager who was laughing all the way home, instead of using common sense. They just has to have that Black AMEX and then show it off to their friends over and over! :oops!: :shit: :lol:

I've always heard that the higher you climb the harder you fall. I really don't know. Material things never meant that much to me. Had they done so, I probably wouldn't have left my position in Washington DC lo those many years ago (33 years ago). Much happier knowing almost everything I have is paid for or could be paid for immediately if I so desired. :wink:


Can't really blame them for screwing up financially as they aren't financially trained. Especially when money comes easy from the start, it's even less incentive for them to explore the concept of prudence. Well, some life lessons had to be learnt the hard way as and when people reap their own fruits.

I guess it's true that the higher you climb the harder you fall, especially those who never had the taste of failure and have been flying high fearlessly.

Not that into material stuff either, spend most of my spare time in sports or charities if i'm not working or study. I guess at some point of time in life, material would mean less to a person as compared to the satisfaction and contentment that can only be achieved by contributing to the greater good of community (Warren Buffet & Gates anyone?).
"I rather fail spectacularly than to succeed minimally." - Lex Luthor

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Postby sharpz » Wed, 01 Sep 2010 3:14 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:sharpz,

How do you measure success? :-|


The degree of difference one person are able to make in the life to those who need the most.

A rather subjective question i would say. Steve Job has always been the successful innovator, but sucks big time in philantrophy.

Really boils down to your personal life aspiration..
"I rather fail spectacularly than to succeed minimally." - Lex Luthor


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