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MOST WHITE PEOPLE TREAT OTHERS LIKE SHIT!!

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anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 3:16 pm

earthfriendly wrote:
x9200 wrote: I am not that convinced if this is really a personal vendetta behind, even if it appears so. Given the average ppl mentality it may be very well a part of the strategy. I see some justifications of the means even up to this point.


Ditto. There's something about the way his brain works. Laser sharp and focused. I won't to attribute it to being Asian. It is just who he is. He has decided to pick nation building as his cause and steadfastly works towards it for the rest of his life. He is not easily corrupted from his purpose. Singapore is both a labor of love and necessity. To him, Singapore comes first and foremost, probably above his family and kids.

I do not belive he is power hungry. Autocratic and Draconian, yes. He understands the need to infuse new ideas and fresh blood to keep SG successful and steps down from an active public political life to allow for younger politicians to take charge while he takes on an advisory role. He just can't help it. He is not able to completely withdraw from it all and when he sees something needs to be fixed in this country, he will speak up. In his words "Even from my sick bed, even if you are going to lower me into the grave and I feel something is going wrong, I will get up."

Singapore is his passion "till death do us part".


EXACTLY. Let's have more of this, Earth-Friendly. Don't forget he'd been through WW2 when SG was brutally occupied.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 3:19 pm

ksl wrote:LKY had the best teachers and guidance in politics! :wink:


Yes KSI, and that was and is, not just local politics, but international.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 3:21 pm

nakatago wrote:
Asian_Geekette wrote:
nakatago wrote:
Mad Scientist wrote: A Chinese Fengshui, an Indian Priest, a Malay Bomoh, and a Christian Priest:


what? no celtic druid and native american shaman? :P


@nakatago: Those two do not represent the majority of the religion of the "races" here. :p


well, those two seem to be right on the money when it comes to being in harmony with the spirit world.

hey, if leeky had an animal totem, what would it be? :P :lol:


A cheeky David.

anneteoh

Well discursed SMS

Postby anneteoh » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 4:18 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:There is good and bad in any system of government. Or in any leader, for that matter. Some have decidedly more bad than good but (I do NOT include the historical and modern day monsters though - are there are some of them still around in a few countries). For me, it's easy when talking about leeky. I give him 110% as an effective leader (for me, his results somewhat justify the means. He turned a backwater into a thriving metropolis envied by most major cities in the world in less than 40 years. Not bad for what was essentially a small handful of carefully chosen men who had an ideal.

Hear, hear! You're absolutely right.


However, I temper my accolades with the fact that I only give him about 60% as a man. To me he is vindictive. And his penchant to bankrupt anybody who disagrees with him is pathetic from my POV. The claim for suing the opposition into bankruptcy is to maintain the moral high ground? Bollocks. History would stand on his side. What you do for a country would be most leaders history, but unfortunately his personal vendettas will also following him into history as well, tarnishing what otherwise was a sterling performance in nation building. From that perspective the term dictator comes to mind, although his is not, on the surface. But is the only difference the way that he eliminated any opposition? I've not lived under a true dictatorship to know for sure, but I know if I go home I may well be. :wink:

- make judgements only when one has all the bare facts.
- then profile the case in context of the circumstances , character,
background experiences, immediate pressure groups, schools of
thoughts influencing actions and immediate pressure
- that's the way to be merciful.

But the point is, it's ludicrous to even attempt to comapre LKY to a dictator. It always takes two to tango - who knows what the opposition had said or dopne? I trust the legislature in SG is free of corruption. And of, course, there're always the unseen hand that the PM would be extremely aware of - having lived out WW2 and the brutalities of submission to any form of evil.

Did he make mistakes? Sure he did.
His is, after all, regardless of the pedestal he has erected for himself, only a man. And men are fallible. How many mistakes? No one knows, as some of the mistakes only show up with time. Things like the genetic deficiency that exists among a large portion of the population caused by social engineering. They excel in maths & science but cannot hold an open wide ranging conversation on anything except a very narrow band as a result of the type of education system that was employed in the first 3 decades after independence. Or the almost total lack of social mores. Of course, it could be justified at the time as the country needed to get into the industrial age in a hurry. Same thing with the short sighted population growth restraints of the late 70's offering mother's a trifle $5K to get sterilized after their 2nd child. Short sighted policy in as much as they only were looking 15 years into the future instead of 30. Now they have one of the lowest fertility rates in the world and even dangling 20K baby bonuses isn't enough to pull the population out of the mememe attitude of instant self gratification. Big mistake and now it's compounding itself because it takes time to raise children, but GDP growth has to continue, so in comes foreign labour to take up the slack. Now, with 1 in 4 foreigners here, the locals are hollering foul, and probably rightly so. Especially those who wanted and could have afforded more children, but decided to tow the party line.

Justified concerns raised indeed. It'll be nice to have one's cake and eat it too. It suddenly occured to me that there will always be rumblings of dissent as people do get sidelined or victimised. It becomes psychologically persisitent and one should read the signs and give help.
I agree there should be more compassion in SG , or in any other country bent on making it in the fast lane.

Most EU countires suffer from low fertility rates - a result of several factors, including all kind sof modern technology, people's lifestyles and attitude. Social engineering is a picky issue, but looking at China, I tend to agree that it's overcrowded and people should restrain from having 200 plus children ( some engineered for evil purposes). Apart from that, take China's one child policy - it forced the people to face other issues such as gender discrimination.

Ha! 'foreigners everywhere' is a topic of this decade. One needs to come to London, or even the Normandy countryside to find that SG, then, is no different. The f word needs to be redefined. But this deserves a separate thread.



But, at the end of the day, the draconian policies have had their effects. The system actually works, and works pretty efficiently, the only problems come from the west with our cowboy attitudes and self moralistic views that we've become accustomed to. In that respect it grinds a bit, but like some of us, due to the fact that it actually works for the most part, we park our deep-seated beliefs and accept that "for here" it works. For me, I just compartmentalize it. I keep the real me in hibernation for a few more years. Both of my kids made it through their entire childhoods and early adulthood without danger or drugs. (Yeah, I know if you want it bad enough you can find it) But I wonder what kind of odds they would have had, had they been in NYC, LA, or Wash DC? Or victims of crimes related to drugs?

The lax policies seem to do no favour to the UK either. The middle way should be advocated based on sensible thinking and balanced outcomes rather than the " Win win " culture. See where that gets America today.
I haven't read From Mars to Venus, but from my experience in this forum, I reckon most males would like to prove they have the big stick, but I'm glad to see changes - which is a subtle but spiritual word. I guess when mortals leave the good earth, they leave their spirit ( or reputation ) behind, but most of all, they would have left their work behind.


But, I still can't wait to escape my HDB prison cell and get back to the farm.

Surely you can look to buy a house with enough land for farming in SG, if not Malaysia or Thailand? You can have durian trees and all tropical flora and fauna. You will miss SG if you leave, esp when your family is part S'porean. I regretted leaving SG - perhaps taking a long holiday before you decide might help you make a clearer decision to consider what "home" really means for you.

Oh, I miss SG - its sheer convenience, it's bonuses and its variety.
:cool:

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Re: Read carefully before you judge

Postby JR8 » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 5:01 pm

anneteoh wrote:Who says I said there's corruption in SG? What kind of reporter are you to have come to that conclusion BTW?



Of course there is corruption in SG. Or is SG the one sole country in the world where there isn't?

X9200 is clearly not a SGn reporter, as no SGn journalist would dare report on corruption, not least because most media outlets are owned by the government.

Foreign journalists who might suggest that all is not quite adding up in the land of milk and honey are routinely sued into bankruptcy.

Funny you never read any reports of corruption then, isn't it?

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 5:49 pm

Absence of proof doesn't prove absence.

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Re: Read carefully before you judge

Postby x9200 » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 5:50 pm

Oh, I missed this one - thank you JR8 :)

anneteoh wrote:
x9200 wrote:This is more general remark so MS, please do not take it personally.
What you've been persistently doing in this thread is proving something what nobody even challenged. Just opposite, I think I stated this like few times - many things are not done fair and you can not openly challenge the system. At the same time you clearly neglect to acknowledge that you, your mindset, mentality is very different from majority of Singaporeans. You judge the system and somebody feelings by your own specific values. If this is so bad as you telling why almost everybody wants to migrate here? Are Singaporeans free to leave or are forced to suffer under this "dictatorship"? Suharto, Marcos, Mahathir, are their nations enjoying the same wealth and wellbeing as Singaporeans? Am I missing something here?
Yes, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely but that's the point - I do not really see this absolute corruption in Singapore. I see limitations to the freedom but I also see a well organized and surprisingly well running socialistic enterprise and for this he has my credit.


I really suggest you read carefully re my own opinion of SG and get your facts right. And obviously, check your literacy levels before you get to talk about my mindset. What do you know. I wouldn't have that presumption even when I think I can place you with regards to personal profiling.LOL

I'm not bashing SG or its leadership, just trying to assuage the rumbling dissents - that's the gist of my reponse.

This summarises the whole point - anything can be misconstrued. I reckon in politics, people's literacy levels must be of a standard of transparent understanding or they shouldn't bother to participate discussing politics. Be aware that politicains have more clout to libel accusations or slander. Hence, it's trouble free to engage your interests elsewhere.

Who says I said there's corruption in SG? What kind of reporter are you to have come to that conclusion BTW?



Anne, you and your issues again. Telling me about my literacy and not being able to make a logical sense out of few simple, plain English sentences. I am only responding to this creation of yours to straighten things up. Read it again. Use wet tissue on your forehead to avoid overheating of the CPU. Buy a dictionary. Look up the verb "to corrupt". In this discussion I am actually on your side of the barricade. Very uneasy feeling if you ask me.
Last edited by x9200 on Mon, 23 Aug 2010 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Read carefully before you judge

Postby x9200 » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 5:54 pm

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Who says I said there's corruption in SG? What kind of reporter are you to have come to that conclusion BTW?

X9200 is clearly not a SGn reporter, as no SGn journalist would dare report on corruption, not least because most media outlets are owned by the government.

She yet has to discover the meaning of the user ranking place above the avatar.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 6:12 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

X9200, talk about being shot by friendly forces.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

anneteoh

Re: Read carefully before you judge

Postby anneteoh » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 6:27 pm

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Who says I said there's corruption in SG? What kind of reporter are you to have come to that conclusion BTW?



Of course there is corruption in SG. Or is SG the one sole country in the world where there isn't?

X9200 is clearly not a SGn reporter, as no SGn journalist would dare report on corruption, not least because most media outlets are owned by the government.

Foreign journalists who might suggest that all is not quite adding up in the land of milk and honey are routinely sued into bankruptcy.

Funny you never read any reports of corruption then, isn't it?


Since you must, no, I haven't read any reports of corruption in SG. But I wouldn't say the govt is corrupted in any way. LKY has the mandate of the people. However, some people might have corrupted the system - as happens everywhere.

Nor would I believe anything I read without solid research. The fact that the govt owns the media is obvious. The merits and demerits of that should be researched. In countires where media power is influencial, there's much corruption, usually invisible to the law but the eyes see them.

Whatever structures any govt sets up need not conform to past or prevalent models, esp the failing ones.

Give names and details of journalists who'd been sued. This world can be full of conspiracies - so don't believe in any old muck.

Re govt -owned media - I'm wondering if that came about during the post-war years when the British were closely involved with LKY in ensuring the banishment of any possible communist propaganda.

Look, I'm not here to prove meself right or to win scores and I'm not pro- this or anti-that either, so relax. It's all a matter of POV.

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 7:14 pm

Mad Scientist wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:

X9200, talk about being shot by friendly forces.

Yeah, I can hardly wait for being sued for defending the LKY's way. This should open for me some door to the world of the Singapore politics. :cool:

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Re: Read carefully before you judge

Postby JR8 » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 7:39 pm

anneteoh wrote:Since you must, no, I haven't read any reports of corruption in SG. But I wouldn't say the govt is corrupted in any way. LKY has the mandate of the people. However, some people might have corrupted the system - as happens everywhere.



- Of course you haven't that was my point
- Uniquely Singapore ah? :)
- Of coss, he keeps redrawing electoral boundaries and generally terrifying the population.
- Only political enemies are found to be corrupt. Convenient isn't it?

anneteoh

Re: Read carefully before you judge

Postby anneteoh » Mon, 23 Aug 2010 8:25 pm

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Since you must, no, I haven't read any reports of corruption in SG. But I wouldn't say the govt is corrupted in any way. LKY has the mandate of the people. However, some people might have corrupted the system - as happens everywhere.



- Of course you haven't that was my point
- Uniquely Singapore ah? :)
- Of coss, he keeps redrawing electoral boundaries and generally terrifying the population.
- Only political enemies are found to be corrupt. Convenient isn't it?


Strictly speaking, if I had any complaints about a person, I'd like to speak to him face to face. I don't encourage backstabbing or slandering.
It would do SG and the newspaper world a lot more good if you confront the politicians and interview them with a list of your grievances.
I really don't know what you're talking about otherwise.

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Re: Read carefully before you judge

Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 24 Aug 2010 4:37 am

anneteoh wrote:Strictly speaking, if I had any complaints about a person, I'd like to speak to him face to face. I don't encourage backstabbing or slandering.
It would do SG and the newspaper world a lot more good if you confront the politicians and interview them with a list of your grievances.
I really don't know what you're talking about otherwise.


anneteoh, I am Mad Scientist, albeit MAD in all aspect :lol:

At least I do not shoot at my own friendly forces. You really have to read X post before shooting him down. He was referring to me and you jumped the gun. Talk about someone with high degree of intellectual and with an astounding command of English and yet miss the target by a mile.

I am getting out of this as it is going off the tangent

:)
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Re: Read carefully before you judge

Postby Plavt » Tue, 24 Aug 2010 6:49 am

anneteoh wrote:
If there is corruption, and I've lived there, it's not what the govt is aware of.



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