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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 07 Feb 2011 4:34 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:Well, if you speak to housing agents, they would tell you that the minority flats are cheaper than the majority kind... not my imagination.

That is NOT SO TRUE.

The HDB, had to do the % thing with the different races according to the total population, so that there would be no "race" enclave, in the public housing.

HDB moves is just a ploy by the Gahmen. Bukit Ho Swee, Redhill, Bukit Merah are the Chinese stronghold, Geylang,Kaki Bukit is the Malay stronghold and Tekka,Serangoon is the Indian Stronghold.
It is easy to control the Chinese as they are the majority, the Indians are obedient lot but worries them alot are the Malays. It has been seen during the Natra riot, Prophet Muhammad May 14 1965 riot , 2000 election at Cheng San GRC where PAP nearly lost, Anson by election where the late JB won, by playing with racial emotions , it can works wonders to your advantage. Hence by controlling the number of Malay, Indians in one constituencies , you dilute their voices, hence their woes will be drown by the voices of the majority


I had some brushes with racism, but not severe types. My dad used to tell me when he was studying in Down Under, that he used to be called funny names...

I am neither Chinese, nor Malay not even Caucasian as I am mixed blood , my IC race is written as others. I speak and write fluent Indonesian, Mandarin, Malay, Arabic and a few languages. I cannot even earn a scholarship from the Gahmen not because I did not qualify , in fact I qualify more than what they asked for but my race is stated as OTHERS. This is what was written on my rejection from PSC as there are no quotas for OTHERS. Now how do you feel if you were in my shoes

Anyway, i do not support nor condone racism. :D
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby ev-disinfection » Mon, 07 Feb 2011 5:40 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:Well, if you speak to housing agents, they would tell you that the minority flats are cheaper than the majority kind... not my imagination.

That is NOT SO TRUE.

I had a muslim friend whose HDB apartment was much cheaper than mine (same Block and almost same floor) well, i think it is cause we have to buy from a chinese owner, and they almost always want a good price, am not saying that the gahmen has special grant / discount for minority.
___________________________________________________

The HDB, had to do the % thing with the different races according to the total population, so that there would be no "race" enclave, in the public housing.

HDB moves is just a ploy by the Gahmen. Bukit Ho Swee, Redhill, Bukit Merah are the Chinese stronghold, Geylang,Kaki Bukit is the Malay stronghold and Tekka,Serangoon is the Indian Stronghold.
It is easy to control the Chinese as they are the majority, the Indians are obedient lot but worries them alot are the Malays. It has been seen during the Natra riot, Prophet Muhammad May 14 1965 riot , 2000 election at Cheng San GRC where PAP nearly lost, Anson by election where the late JB won, by playing with racial emotions , it can works wonders to your advantage. Hence by controlling the number of Malay, Indians in one constituencies , you dilute their voices, hence their woes will be drown by the voices of the majority


Exactly what i had written... no "race" enclave now --- 1965 there was
__________________________________________________
I had some brushes with racism, but not severe types. My dad used to tell me when he was studying in Down Under, that he used to be called funny names...

I am neither Chinese, nor Malay not even Caucasian as I am mixed blood , my IC race is written as others. I speak and write fluent Indonesian, Mandarin, Malay, Arabic and a few languages. I cannot even earn a scholarship from the Gahmen not because I did not qualify , in fact I qualify more than what they asked for but my race is stated as OTHERS. This is what was written on my rejection from PSC as there are no quotas for OTHERS. Now how do you feel if you were in my shoes


As a positive SG guy, i would say that most gahmen will create laws /
rules that cater to the majority of the population, there will always be people who are not happy with them, i too would be angry too if i qualify but did not get it, BTW, when was this? last year or 20 years ago?
________________________________________________

Anyway, i do not support nor condone racism. :D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 07 Feb 2011 6:50 pm

EV, you have proven my point in spades. You don't think the HDB policy is racism ONLY because the gahmen told you it was to control enclaves and it was good for Singapore. How does it control the Chinese enclave. The whole island is 78% Chinese therefore they have the entire country as a big Chinese enclave. You see, the fallacy of your thoughts ends with "It's to prevent". Just because a law is there to prevent, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS NOT RACIST in nature and fact. Anytime somebody is told that they can or can NOT do something SOLELY because of their RACE it is Racism pure and simple, regardless of the intent of the law. Why is that so hard for the Chinese to see that? For the same reason that it took the Whites in the US so long to see it. Racist policies are normally created by the majority WHO DO NOT FEEL THE EFFECTS OF THOSE POLICIES. You would have to walk a mile in my shoes, or my wife's shoes, or a Malay's shoes before you would even begin to understand or admit. It was enlightenment for me I can tell you.

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Postby ev-disinfection » Mon, 07 Feb 2011 9:51 pm

Dear SMS,
Do you have a solution to this problem?
Which country in the world, who gahmen does not support the majority more than the minority, and are still in power? Is there a bigger picture that the gahmen is concentrating in? Is it a lesser of 2 -3 evils...?
There are many different races living in SG, What would you do differently if you are the gahmen? And would there be racial harmony?
Would your family be better off in a Tamil majority area? (but then you would be a minority)

Bro, this is only my POV, I too don't have the answers or proof, but SG compared to other countries is doing ok, what else can i ask for, not that i don't have problems with the changes in the law, from time to time...
:D

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 07 Feb 2011 10:15 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:Which country in the world, who gahmen does not support the majority more than the minority, and are still in power?


The UK.

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Postby durain » Mon, 07 Feb 2011 10:29 pm

JR8 wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:Which country in the world, who gahmen does not support the majority more than the minority, and are still in power?


The UK.


LOL! so true! :D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 07 Feb 2011 11:02 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:Dear SMS,
Do you have a solution to this problem?
Which country in the world, who gahmen does not support the majority more than the minority, and are still in power? Is there a bigger picture that the gahmen is concentrating in? Is it a lesser of 2 -3 evils...?
There are many different races living in SG, What would you do differently if you are the gahmen? And would there be racial harmony?
Would your family be better off in a Tamil majority area? (but then you would be a minority)

Bro, this is only my POV, I too don't have the answers or proof, but SG compared to other countries is doing ok, what else can i ask for, not that i don't have problems with the changes in the law, from time to time...
:D


The first step in finding a solution is not to jam, what the unknowing majority "thinks" is the answer, down the minority's throats. By not making laws unilaterally. By learning how to have some trust. Trust begets trust. When you deliberately set out to subjugate a people, those people lose any trust that they have. Do you think that any Malay in Singapore really trusts the government here? They were ripped out of their homes forcefully, and the homes/kampongs torn down and new towns were built in their stead. Now, for a community whose entire lives revolved around their mosque where they grew up, to be cast out of that community and strewn across the far reaches of the island because they are not allowed to live together in peace, do you honestly think the government did right? Instead of using what they already have in place (ISA), they have sown distrust into each and every Malay on the island. Sure they are docile, but the government knows they did wrong. That's why there are no Malays of Flag rank in the Military and I believe only recently were they allowed infantry ranks up to battalion level. Such is the distrust of the gahmen. When you subjugate a people, you instill deep seated hard feelings in those same people. You should have laws to prevent racial prejudice in the military, in the workplace and in the government. It's also the reason for GRC's. By having a GRC, they can have a 'token' docile Malay in the GRC but he will always be outnumbered by the majority to control him. Same with businesses that always claim they need Chinese speaking employees when they actually work on Orchard Road or in the Financial District and have no dealing with the PRC or Taiwan at all. Is it outlawed? no. Will it be? No. Not as long as the Majority are only interested in maintaining the 78% racial majority in order to completely dominate all the other races here.

Such is the way it is here. But Mr. Average Majority Citizen cannot see it because he is blinkered and thinks the powers that be are infallible.

You last statement is the key to it all. As long as you get your way and keep getting business and growth, then what's wrong with the system? Right? You are just like a huge chunk of the 78% majority, but with better English. You don't have the answers, but you do have the proof. I've given to you in black & white. The first thing you have to do is accept that the problem exists. Only then can people work towards a cure. :wink:

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 07 Feb 2011 11:18 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote: That's why there are no Malays of Flag rank in the Military and I believe only recently were they allowed infantry ranks up to battalion level. Such is the distrust of the gahmen.


Such is their distrust that their personal security are ghurkhas.

P-p-paranoid.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 08 Feb 2011 7:17 am

ev-disinfection

To answer your Q when was that , it was probabyl about 30 years ago. Anyway I managed to get my Uni from overseas and sign on the army

Now, I know this thread has side track pretty much but here are something for you to digest from past history .

1. In 1981, the late JB Jeyaretnam won the Anson byelection against PAP Pang Kin Hin. Pang lost not because he was not good but he lost because the constituency there are full of Port Workers. Blair Plain constituency are rented to these workers. They earned their livelihood and have families there. Most of them were Indians and Malays. Pay were meagre but a stable job. When PSA wanted to expand Gate 2, all these workers families had to be relocated so said the Gahmen. Alot of rumbling and they voted with their heart at the by election. PAP got a rude shocked !! Never lost before and they got suckered punch.
Gahmen stood up, and make a certain countermeasure.
1. Re house the workers to Telok Blangah , Pandan, Teban and other new developed housing estate with cheap housing.
2. Disperse all the Indians and Malays everywhere.
3. Belittle JB with all kinds of accusation in SG court and made him a bankrupt.
4. Offer PSA shares to workers.

Once they have done that , the workers' tummies were full , families taken care , cut the Opposition into pieces, the next election they won.
But did Blair Plain estate got demolished , NO !! it got sold to the highest bidder.

Angulia Mosque in front of Lido.
1. This was a Wakaf Land. It means that it was given to the trustees of the mosque to manage. It was sitting on prime area.
2. Gahmen cannot make them move . So..... they change the Land Act Law. Under Muslim law, wakaf land cannot be sold nor transfered to anyone. They got the Islamic Theologian and Malay PAP that are under their thumbs to rally. The law change to allow wakaf land to be sold under Gahmen Gazzette Act. The mosque committee relented under pressure and was housed in another area with new Mosque infront of Mustapha Centre. But they sold to the Gahmen at 1972 Land Price But Gahmen sold it to the highest bidder at 1990 land act price. So who gain from here ? Is it fair ? They did not want to sell it but was forced to. But did they got a good deal ? No !!!
Why did the late Ong TC got trashed ? He saw alot of disparity in the Singapore Land Act. He held the key to SG asset hence he spoke up . That is why he did not get a State Funeral.

MUIS has a long serving Mufti Syed Isa Semait. He tried to get an able person to replace. Tried he did but those that are capable to replace him refused or resign. Untill now no replacement. Sad......
You know why ?? If you hold that post you must be under the thumb of the government. Those that are capable knew that . The Malays are very gentle people and Islam as a religion is second nature to them.
You can starve them, oppress them, belittle them with whatever as long as you do not ridicule Islam, they will toil along maybe with some discontent but harmless. If you tarnish Islam, the Gahmen knows that they would have awaken a sleeping dragon that are capable of unimaginable destruction.
That is the reason Gahmen makes sure that anyone who speak bad of Islam will be punish as it is the sacroscant of the Malay/Muslim people.
In the army, only the infantry regiment, People Defense Force(PDF now called SCDF) and police has many Malays. Even the Navy or Coast Guard has no Malay until recently. During my time the argument was, food, hard to prepare for two ethnics in these sought after battalion but I personally seen Commandos that are Indians and practising vegetarian.
Chaim Herzog arrival in 1983 made a huge ruckus. All Malays or Indian Muslim soldiers were transfered to other duties. The distrust in Malay is so great that even the first Malay pilot flew a C130 not those fighter jets. The First Malay Colonel was only an attache to an Ambassador overseas.
No, Malay and Indian can hold higher echelon.

The Gahmen does not even trust their own army that they still engage two bn of Gurkhas for home security. Is the SG Police, Special Force, SOF, NDU, ISA, SS, SIB not good enough with all the latest gadget and weapons money can buy ? The answer is trust. If comes to crunch times, they rather rely on the Gurkhas to protec them compare to their own Home Team.
I see great injustice and inequalities in every aspect of how the Gahmen treats the minority. Do not even talk about us the "other" race , we have no place in the Gahmen books at all!!

Apart from UK, NZ and Sweden has better race relation than SG

I hope you realised and take notice what goes around you , Spare a thought for the less fortunate one and take kindness at heart
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby ev-disinfection » Tue, 08 Feb 2011 3:19 pm

Dear MS / SMS,
History.
I was in the combat engineers, as a driver and had many Malay buddies, that i would go to war with. We supported the field bridging works, set up and cleared land / tank mines, set up explosives and disable enemy explosives together. One of the first units to enter and one of the last to leave a battlefield.

American took years to have their first all black company, during the first civil war, and did not trust the native Indians till / after the 2nd world war.
Singapore is only 45 years old, it will take time. We have got our first Malay General last year, commander of our 6th battalion.

The gahmen's stand is that if we had a confrontation with a muslim enemy, would our Malay troops attack? I personally think that they would, at least the majority of them. just that Malay Muslims have not had any history against a muslim opposition. In Malaysia it is the opposite, where the chinese are only in the police force.

Gurkhas
"Their presence as a neutral force was important because local police officers were often perceived to be (or were even expected to be) biased towards their own ethnic groups when handling racial disturbances, further fueling discontent and violence[citation needed]. Officers who attempt to carry out their duties impartially and in full accordance with the law also face social backlash from their own ethnic communities, a difficult situation which can even lead to physical harm to individual officers.

In his autobiography, then Prime Minister, now Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew recounted the use of the Gurkha Contingent as an impartial force at the time when Singapore just gained independence. He wrote:

"When I returned to Oxley Road [Lee's residence], Gurkha policemen (recruited by the British from Nepal) were posted as sentries. To have either Chinese policemen shooting Malays or Malay policemen shooting Chinese would have caused widespread repercussions. The Gurkhas, on the other hand, were neutral, besides having a reputation for total discipline and loyalty."
as quoted from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurkha_Contingent

It makes sense, i mean, if we had a start a new country with many different races in the population, i would suggest the gurkhas too, as they are highly loyal. to be neutral.
In the triads of the past, if there was trouble with the chinese, Indian members would be activated.... and vice versa, they knew how to settle the problem without creating racial tensions.

My best teacher in secondary school was Miss Sinta Maniam, she really help and guided me, i was one of the naughty ones. We still call each other and chat.

MS - past history, is all politics -- to get power, stay in power... what can i say.

National service - 2-3 years of our lives, and reservist till 35 -40 years old -- is important, but not as important as studies, where in SG, any person can, with hard work excel.... they might not get a good job here or they might... but anyone can be an expat, tell ppl that you are a Singaporean, and you would be "more" accepted.

Overall, Sg did well with this gahmen... you must admit.
Yes, it is not perfect.

Sorry, quite jumbled up...
BTW, today is ex president Mr Ong Teng Cheong's 9th anniversary of his death, the guy that did not get a state funeral... Good guy.
Cheers

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 08 Feb 2011 3:42 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:
American took years to have their first all black company, during the first civil war, and did not trust the native Indians till / after the 2nd world war.
Singapore is only 45 years old, it will take time. We have got our first Malay General last year, commander of our 6th battalion.

Having an all black company was a wrong move, but was in line with our racist policies way back then. We don't have ethnic separation in any of our forces since WWII. It's interesting to see you squirm and use that old saw about the country only being 45 years old. That means, you all don't study history to see what works and what don't work, huh? Funny, the gahmen are always telling you that the CPF and no unemployment benefits are because of the gahmen studing other country's history and learning what does and doesn't work. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Gurkhas
"Their presence as a neutral force was important because local police officers were often perceived to be (or were even expected to be) biased towards their own ethnic groups when handling racial disturbances, further fueling discontent and violence[citation needed]. Officers who attempt to carry out their duties impartially and in full accordance with the law also face social backlash from their own ethnic communities, a difficult situation which can even lead to physical harm to individual officers.

Again, this is the only country I've ever heard of that uses mercenaries to guard the government. As I said, trust begets trust. If the Chinese don't trust the Malays, why should they trust the Chinese, who have already shown their hand as to how fair that the are.

In his autobiography, then Prime Minister, now Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew recounted the use of the Gurkha Contingent as an impartial force at the time when Singapore just gained independence. He wrote:

"When I returned to Oxley Road [Lee's residence], Gurkha policemen (recruited by the British from Nepal) were posted as sentries. To have either Chinese policemen shooting Malays or Malay policemen shooting Chinese would have caused widespread repercussions. The Gurkhas, on the other hand, were neutral, besides having a reputation for total discipline and loyalty."
as quoted from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurkha_Contingent

It makes sense, i mean, if we had a start a new country with many different races in the population, i would suggest the gurkhas too, as they are highly loyal. to be neutral.
In the triads of the past, if there was trouble with the chinese, Indian members would be activated.... and vice versa, they knew how to settle the problem without creating racial tensions.

You still hold that naive notion that there is no racial tension? That's what happens with the power holders. Because they overwhelm the minorities, the minorities are quiet, so the powers think there is no tension. If there is no tension, why do the majority get seriously stressed if a rebel rouser starts campaigning in JB? Talk about having blinkers on......

My best teacher in secondary school was Miss Sinta Maniam, she really help and guided me, i was one of the naughty ones. We still call each other and chat.

MS - past history, is all politics -- to get power, stay in power... what can i say.

National service - 2-3 years of our lives, and reservist till 35 -40 years old -- is important, but not as important as studies, where in SG, any person can, with hard work excel.... they might not get a good job here or they might... but anyone can be an expat, tell ppl that you are a Singaporean, and you would be "more" accepted.

Overall, Sg did well with this gahmen... you must admit. Compared to what? Remember to compare oranges with oranges and not apples.......Yes they did well. I still want to be around to see if my prophecy will come true although I doubt that I'll live another 36 years to see.
Yes, it is not perfect.

Sorry, quite jumbled up...
BTW, today is ex president Mr Ong Teng Cheong's 9th anniversary of his death, the guy that did not get a state funeral... Good guy.
Cheers


Yesterday was history, this morning is history. He who fails to learn history is doomed to repeat it.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 08 Feb 2011 3:42 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:Singapore is only 45 years old



Was LKYs arrival 'Year Zero'?

:wink: :roll:

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Postby ev-disinfection » Tue, 08 Feb 2011 4:08 pm

Gurkhas have been in the UK armed forces for over 200 years. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10782099

JR8 - Singapore Independence in 1965

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 08 Feb 2011 4:14 pm

Yeah, but they don't guard Buckingham Palace or 10 Downing Street do they?

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 08 Feb 2011 4:18 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:Gurkhas have been in the UK armed forces for over 200 years. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10782099

This is true. But they do not hold positions that Brits are not trusted to hold.

JR8 - Singapore Independence in 1965

I know what you meant, just the way you said it sounded like Singapore was a mudflat rather than a fully functioning democratic economy in 1965 :)



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