rejection of EP / PEP/ PR

[sundaymorningstaple]

zzm, it was the status of the US educational system that was the primary driving force that was the final decision maker to stay in Singapore for the long term.

I once heard it would take 40 years to get the US system back to where it was 40 years ago. Until they stop "dumbing" down the system so that all can pass, I'll pass on it.

[Mr M]

Not gospel, just amazed.

Back to track, any ideas of how MOM is doing reviews for EP academic background?

[durian123]

I get TODAY at my front door every morning, and there have definitely been many letters published blaming the following on foreigners:
- rudeness of people, especially compared to HK
- MRT crowded
- MRT breaking down
- MRT price increases (it was suggested that foreigners should pay more)
- rising prices (of anything)

I'm very, very grateful to the Singapore government for letting me live and work here, but I wish they'd stop the laissez-faire approach initiated last year regarding bigotry and blaming foreigners for everything.

[Framboisse]

I'm having a serious problem with my pass renewal (serious coz it's expiring on May 9). I'm currently an EP holder (P2) but due to the enhanced EP framework, my pass category was affected and I no longer qualify for P2 (although I thought I could still qualify for Q1). My pass renewal was rejected based on 'salary and qualifications'. An appeal was submitted, with supplementary letters from my boss and our CEO. The appeal was also rejected based on 'salary and qualifications'.

Now my salary was raised a bit (still below the P2 salary level but way higher than minimum salary for Q1). My company decided to re-appeal, but I'm so worried about my chances of getting approved this time.

My degree (I graduated from one of the top universities in the Philippines) and professional experiences are all related to my current job. I was even granted an employment pass eligibility certificate by MoM before. So I can't see nothing wrong with my qualifications unless they think I'm not good enough anymore.

My question now is, do you think MoM will look at my application based on the prevailing criteria for P2 only since that's my current pass? Is it possible that since I don't qualify for P2 anymore, could they just downgrade my pass to Q1 and not reject me once and for all?

I'm so confused because I thought MoM would be lenient to existing pass holders (as what was said in the press release) who will be renewing before July 2012. What bothers me is that I've known some Filipinos who have lower salaries - $3,000 (but not fresh grads) and did not even graduate from the top universities in the Philippines and whose degrees were not even related to their current jobs but their EPs were approved.

[the lynx]

Sorry to hear about that but in case all fails, you and your boss should really consider downgrading your pass type if you really want to stay here. It is just a pass after all (considering what is looming ahead, you don't have the luxury to think about the type of pass). At least your salary remains (or increases a bit).

[sundaymorningstaple]

Additionally, now the MOM will be looking at that new application even more closely as it will appear the then new application, with a higher salary, will be a case of employee & employer colluding to defraud the MOM by participating in a kickback scheme of some sort (if the employer didn't offer you more money at the start). That could get your employer fined, and banned from hiring foreigners for a while and it could get you a fine, jail term, deportation and banned from Singapore or any combination of them. Be careful, be very careful

[Framboisse]

But if I may qualify for Q1 but not for P2 any more, could MoM approve the appeal and issue a new EP category rather than reject me for not qualifying for P2?

The pay rise was formalised by a letter by our CEO from the main office in the UK as they were hoping this could help me meet the qualifying salary in EP Q1 level. By the way, we're a representative office, and I've read somewhere the company can't have S Pass holders. We never had any S pass in the company.

[Framboisse]

I've heard lots of stories about kickback scheme and now I'm even more frustrated coz I know some people whose salaries were declared as $3,000 (when the actual is $1,800-2,000) yet their employment pass was renewed this year and they're not even fresh grads! mine is way higher and true yet rejected. Oh I forgot to mention, even their job titles were faked.

[sundaymorningstaple]

You don't know the reason for rejection. Therefore you don't know if it was rejected for salary or for the new more stringent academic/experience guidelines (which are not publish). Therefore no two cases are the same. You are assuming that it's for salary, but I doubt it if application was made before the cutoff (for salaries only).

[Framboisse]

You don't know the reason for rejection. Therefore you don't know if it was rejected for salary or for the new more stringent academic/experience guidelines (which are not publish). Therefore no two cases are the same. You are assuming that it's for salary, but I doubt it if application was made before the cutoff (for salaries only).

yeah, you're right about that. it's always a case-to-case basis, though somehow results could be surprising or "don't make sense". do you know if the results are automated or actual people do check the applications? is it also true a representative office cannot apply for S Pass? my company is a representative office and we don't have an HR department here so I guess I have to do research and share insights to our admin in the office in charge of these things.

[sundaymorningstaple]

You don't know the reason for rejection. Therefore you don't know if it was rejected for salary or for the new more stringent academic/experience guidelines (which are not publish). Therefore no two cases are the same. You are assuming that it's for salary, but I doubt it if application was made before the cutoff (for salaries only).

yeah, you're right about that. it's always a case-to-case basis, though somehow results could be surprising or "don't make sense". do you know if the results are automated or actual people do check the applications? is it also true a representative office cannot apply for S Pass? my company is a representative office and we don't have an HR department here so I guess I have to do research and share insights to our admin in the office in charge of these things.

It would seem that the only proviso is for EP holders and they HAVE to be transferred from the company's HQ. Any other employees have to be Singaporeans. It would also seem that in normal circumstances you would only be allowed <5 total employees but the actual number would be at the discretion of the government. As a RO DOES NOT DO ANY BUSINESS, there should be little need for more than 3 or 4 employees.

https://roms.iesingapore.gov.sg/tncbusiness.aspx

All of the FAQ's I could find only indicate that you can hire EP's from the Company's HQ to staff the RO as well as Singaporean/PR's.

[Framboisse]

You don't know the reason for rejection. Therefore you don't know if it was rejected for salary or for the new more stringent academic/experience guidelines (which are not publish). Therefore no two cases are the same. You are assuming that it's for salary, but I doubt it if application was made before the cutoff (for salaries only).

yeah, you're right about that. it's always a case-to-case basis, though somehow results could be surprising or "don't make sense". do you know if the results are automated or actual people do check the applications? is it also true a representative office cannot apply for S Pass? my company is a representative office and we don't have an HR department here so I guess I have to do research and share insights to our admin in the office in charge of these things.

It would seem that the only proviso is for EP holders and they HAVE to be transferred from the company's HQ. Any other employees have to be Singaporeans. It would also seem that in normal circumstances you would only be allowed <5 total employees but the actual number would be at the discretion of the government. As a RO DOES NOT DO ANY BUSINESS, there should be little need for more than 3 or 4 employees.

https://roms.iesingapore.gov.sg/tncbusiness.aspx

All of the FAQ's I could find only indicate that you can hire EP's from the Company's HQ to staff the RO as well as Singaporean/PR's.

Thanks SMS for the info. I will relay this to our admin. Our company never had an S Pass holder. For the meantime, my E Pass renewal is on re-appeal, so I guess we'll see and go from there. Thanks for the valuable insights.

[Framboisse]

My pass renewal was finally approved on the second appeal! It was however downgraded from P2 to Q1, but I'm very much okay with it. I don't know what convinced MoM to finally grant me approval. The changes that were made included rounding up my salary (raised it by $38.50) and submissions of my expired EPEC (which I never got to activate), high school diploma and civil service eligibility certificate (professional). The result came after 3 days. On the first appeal, only letters from my boss and CEO were submitted, and the rejection came after almost 2 weeks. I realised the self-assessment tool really works for me coz according to the tool, a higher salary range could qualify me for an EP, and when my company did so, my renewal was approved. Two years ago, my salary was below EP range but I got a result that I could qualify for both EP and S Pass and indeed, my EP was approved then.

The strange thing though is that like my other colleague, my renewal was approved a day before it expires.

Oh by the way. thanks for all the pieces of advice and for responding to my posts. I was so stressed then and it gave me relief to read insights from people:)

[sundaymorningstaple]

Congratulations. I'm glad that there is some light at the end of the tunnel for some of our readers. After a while we tend to get depressed constantly giving out unwanted information so it's nice that occasionally somebody actually manages to pull themselves out of the mire and actually turn it around. Sounds like your company has a pretty strong HR team. Your lucky.

[extraordinaire]

I get TODAY at my front door every morning, and there have definitely been many letters published blaming the following on foreigners:
- rudeness of people, especially compared to HK
- MRT crowded
- MRT breaking down
- MRT price increases (it was suggested that foreigners should pay more)
- rising prices (of anything)

I'm very, very grateful to the Singapore government for letting me live and work here, but I wish they'd stop the laissez-faire approach initiated last year regarding bigotry and blaming foreigners for everything.

I hear you! It's not like I'm being bullied at my current workplace and all, but the general hate for foreigners is, much to the expat community's chagrin, an unrelenting precense all over SG. In particular, it rubs me the wrong way every time I stumble upon comments about MRT crowding due to foreigners. I mean...come on, it's public transportation.

But anway, I'm getting used to it.