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JayCee
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Postby JayCee » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:38 am

anneteoh wrote:
You have every right to be in this forum as anyone else so Jaycee can try to build up Malaysia or Thailand - if they even welcome him - instead of boasting about how his country built up SG. He'stalking out of his hat and it's got a hole in it. I don't believe a word of that. We alll know who built up SG and we're not shouting it to deafen others.


Oh dear Anne, considering you've lived in the UK for however many years you still don't understand sarcasm very well do you? Did it not occur to you that Leona took the condescending tone with me so I might have been playing a little Devil's advocate with my "you are welcome" reply?

There is a part truth in what I say though as Singapore wouldn't be corruption free (as apparently it is) without a UK-based law, although the fact that ministers here get more than Obama doesn't seem quite right btu that's another discussion entirely...

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Postby beppi » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:53 pm

This threat has degenerated from linguistic intolerance through cultural arrogance to mutual name-calling - and the worst is that both sides don't seem to see when it's better to shut up.
Moderator: Please consider closing this thread!

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vbelle
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Postby vbelle » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 1:49 pm

poodlek wrote:
:D I enjoyed that definition of Caucasian. I was also amused to learn once upon a time that the term "Aryan race" as applied to the blond-haired, blue-eyed and proud types is a misnomer. Aryans are actually northern Indian/Persian types.



I thought north Indians are mix of Aryan n Dravida? no?

Long discussion/arguments on singlish...its uniquely singapore..let it be..

i enjoyed laughing when a friend of mine came visiting last weekend..never been to singapore before, got on a taxi..with a driver
whom she claim to be..already weird by talking to himself while driving..

My friend: To Sims ville
Driver: Sims Ville ah?
My friend: no, sims ville
Driver: Sims Ville ah?
My friend: Sims ville
Driver: yes, sims ville ah?

My friend walking with me entering the apartment building and reading the name: i dont understand why he insisted the name is Sims Villa...See! its Sims Ville!

anneteoh

SG has the right to self-government

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 4:33 pm

In our increasingly pluralistic world today, no country has the perfect administration that will satisfy everyone. It's usually the majority rule everywhere I'm afraid to say - but that's a reflection of democratic governments too, as the votes pull in their directions.
I have all kinds of friends in SG and I've heard complaints from different races, including the very few from the majority Chinese about the restrictions they faced in the acquisition of additional homes.

The smallness of SG requires a careful sharing of the limited resources . It's amazing what SG has done and for whatever complaints - there'll always be complaints, one notices equal opportunities adhered to in all government departments; unlike the discrimination against other non-Muslims around. It's not easy for SG to run even a small country but to continually have unfair and hateful jibes at the govt amounts to racism.

SG is a Chinese country with a multiracial population like Malaysia is a Malay country with a multiracial population due to the majority status quo and the government. SG is a fair mix and the govt should be lauded, whatever other faults they might have.

One can't compare the US to SG or anywhere else. Each nation has its own sacrosanct history and evolution. In the history of SG, there's nothing but positive achievements because the govt is working hard at a very difficult job. But there will be restrictions as there's never enough to go round and some people will always want more.

What's sad is that some people incessantly try to undermine the stability in SG. These people see the Chinese as easy targets because they don't get any threats thrown back at them so they keep on bad mouthing the Chinese who really just get on with their own business.

I'm sorry Leona123, but some of the things JR8 had said were so vile, it makes one cringe. He's not an expat in SG and he doesn't work there either, He's an anti Chinese agent, so don't take anything he said about you to heart. No gentlemen of any culture would use such words for any anyone, least to say, women.

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 4:42 pm

whoa. hold on with the hyperbole there.

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 5:03 pm

anneteoh wrote:
JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
Far out. Aunt Batty impersonates Ali G :wink: :o
Doan gave me yur dirt'y vink yer fat ole naime cullin what's it. Yu is de kulprit, ras.
Ha, if we're in the same party, I do look years younger than you old man.
Noe go 'ave yur milk and say yur prayers.


Darn, that was pretty damned good :) Oh and by the way Aunty Betty is a term of affection for the Queen. Hence Aunt Batty might be a term of affection for an Anglophile retiree who possesses an eccentric turn of phrase, and more...
It made sense at the time :)


Know what? Well, you do really. And who is this guilty 'we' Hum? Tutu, tut, man , you do give yourself away. She's obviously a lovely lady, perhaps a Kiwi or a Maori.


I thought she was a Mat Salleh, given how aggressive she is. But when the robotic SG-my-home drum beating started...


Nope. You just do have a chip, but really, this is just a lot of banality. Boy, you have a lot of hate, don't you? There's something at the bottom of all this. She's Chinese like me - and the King of Tonga will be pleased. But the way you say cina gives me bad vibs. Ah, I love China. She's a peaceful country.


Not really, I just enjoy a scrap now and again 8-) . Think about it Anne. If you walked into a neighbourhood bar (a community microcosm) would you introduce yourself to the regulars by hitting them over the head with the bar-stools?

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 5:10 pm

JayCee wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
You have every right to be in this forum as anyone else so Jaycee can try to build up Malaysia or Thailand - if they even welcome him - instead of boasting about how his country built up SG. He'stalking out of his hat and it's got a hole in it. I don't believe a word of that. We alll know who built up SG and we're not shouting it to deafen others.


Oh dear Anne, considering you've lived in the UK for however many years you still don't understand sarcasm very well do you? Did it not occur to you that Leona took the condescending tone with me so I might have been playing a little Devil's advocate with my "you are welcome" reply?

Jaycee, you've been away too long, you didn't catch up with the corruption in the houses of Parliament over here, including a few scroungers - large sums actually of over [color=red]200,000 + GBP from a few unscrupulous ministers in the Hse of Lords just recently. It's not the constitution or the laws but what people do with them, or interprete them that is sinister.
Yes, I've lived in the UK too long. It's difficult to leave when my roots are partially here. Look, I'm used to enlightened company and we snot at others trying to put oothers down, get it?[/color]

There is a part truth in what I say though as Singapore wouldn't be corruption free (as apparently it is) without a UK-based law, although the fact that ministers here get more than Obama doesn't seem quite right btu that's another discussion entirely...


When the British colonial govt left SG, it was a sorry -looking downtown - Chinatown and the backwaters of kampongs and vegeland with a few grand Victorian buildings. It's SM LKY and his govt, together with some expats and the whole of S'poreans who built the city up. A shame I haven't the technology to show the pics.

Most S'poreans then spoke very little English, except the Eurasians perhaps, who acquire the language through the missionaries, most of whom did fairly good work.

SM LKY made English the official language for SG and it's thanks to him. He had a double 1st class honours in law as a Rhodes scholar in Cambridge - we know he's been groomed by the British to take charge. His wife was also a lawyer and was Chinese educated. It's to their, and the govt's credit that they steered SG on to the path to economic success.

Regarding the comparative presidential salaries, yes, I agree it's rather disproportionally different, considering the humoungous size of America and its resources. I believe that's to do with the strength in China and the SE Asian countries, which historically, had traded with each other since Lemuria. The Sunda Shelf was a princely trading ground for the Malayan and Indonesain archipelagos, Burma, Southern India, Vietnam , the Philippines, Southern China etc.

Today, I believe HK is equally wealthy and like SG , is a trading post for many of the region's resources. That's how Francis Light built up Penang anyway. And of course, there's Oz and NZ that are equally doing well.

But the astronomical amount of money is due to the learning of the Chinese language - it correlates with the abstraction of pure maths and have been proven thus in the us. Most of my Singlish speaking friends are far far richer than me because they're more proficient with financial matters than linguistic culture. No doubt, Marxism and Maoism were leant as tools for developing industries.

I believe the older generations of S'poreans do recognise the contributions made by the British in establishing the infrastructure for what's SG today.
Last edited by anneteoh on Wed, 10 Nov 2010 8:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby leona123 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 5:24 pm

SMS,

beppi is right and this thread has degenerated into merely name-calling. So, I'm going to do my best and explain this to you in as civil a tone as possible though I DO understand my curt replies(maybe even my caps) offends some of you. Now, whatever I say, is definitely NOT to put you down but to explain what I know is going on. Alright? Now, if you feel a need to put me down, send me a pm.

As you are a teacher, if I were in your place, I would rail against the racial profiling.

At P1, the race(as well as other factors like gender) is used to separate the students as fairly as possible so that not all the students of one particular race are in one class. And we DO go for NE(national education) lessons where we are told to incorporate racial harmony in lessons by using names of students of different races in worksheets AND to put different races in different groups to get them to be "mixed-up" as much as possible. We are even told to be very mindful of Japanese students in class during social studies topics on Japanese Occupation so as not to make the Jap student feel uneasy. Perhaps, you would like to think through how much importance the government gives to racial harmony if they are making the effort to explain such minute details to us?

The biggest racist policy has been foisted on us by the government itself, with the HDB racist policy. YES, I can hear you already. But read this with an open mind. It does not change the fact that it's a racist policy when you tell someone that they cannot live or purchase a property on the open market, money notwithstanding, because they are the "wrong" race.

Obviously, we DO NOT have the same understanding of the HDB ‘racist’ policy. The ‘racist’ policy is to ensure that different races are “mixed-up”

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Re: SG has the right to self-government

Postby JR8 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 5:30 pm

anneteoh wrote:I'm sorry Leona123, but some of the things JR8 had said were so vile, it makes one cringe. He's not an expat in SG and he doesn't work there either, He's an anti Chinese agent, so don't take anything he said about you to heart. No gentlemen of any culture would use such words for any anyone, least to say, women.


Sorry Anne, but what did I say that was 'so vile it makes one cringe'? :o Or could it be that you are just not familiar with the average kind of rough and tumble that you usually get on the web?

I have been an expat in SG on a number of occasions, and much more recently than you Anne. Given your apparent unbounding enthusiasm for all things that the SG government does, one wonders why you choose to live in England.

An anti-Chinese agent?.... ok! 8-) :D

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Postby leona123 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 5:34 pm

anneteoh wrote:I'm sorry Leona123, but some of the things JR8 had said were so vile, it makes one cringe. He's not an expat in SG and he doesn't work there either, He's an anti Chinese agent, so don't take anything he said about you to heart. No gentlemen of any culture would use such words for any anyone, least to say, women.

Actually, I DO have a bit of a 'thick skin'. And after reading a lot of his comments, he is too insignificant for me to take seriously.

And I DO admire your ability to cool everyone down and still bring your contrary views across eloquently.

anneteoh

Bravo Leona123

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 5:51 pm

Your response to SMS, Leona123, reflects not just on the linguistic but equally, on the moral and social highgrounds of the quality of education for all in SG. Thank you for your comments...
I'll say this for JRB, that he's really quite alright as far as I'm concerned. He has all the audacity of a joker , that's all, I hope. My own magnanimousity ( description given by my VP when I was on a stint in SG ) is my embarrassment sometimes, but I've grown a thick skin on this web. It's okay really, one should be able to use language to the utmost, without sacrificing one's moral integrity of course.
I'm jolly glad you're in the forum and I do say you're a fine teacher, and most of all, I'm truly glad you're not Chinese because some might think we have a Chinese conspiracy to worship the SG govt.
Last edited by anneteoh on Wed, 10 Nov 2010 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

leona123
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Re: Bravo Leona123

Postby leona123 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 8:23 pm

anneteoh wrote:
I'm jolly glad you're in the forum and I do say you're a fine teacher, and most of all, I'm, truly glad you're not Chinese because some might think we have a Chinese conspiracy to worship the SG govt.

:lol:

Were you teaching in Singapore, previously?

And I just had to add...
I believe the older generations of S'poreans do recognise the contributions made by the British in establishing the infrastructure for what's SG today.

Actually, the younger generation recognise the contributions too. It's taught in social studies in the primary school. And I have to say this in a matter-of-fact tone (NOT condescending and NOT putting anyone or any country down). The British did leave us to fend for ourselves during the Japanese Occupation...And after Singapore "broke up" with Malaysia, the world was skeptical that Singapore would survive as a nation. As you already identified, it was LKY and his party that brought Singapore to where it is today. So, while we recognise and APPRECIATE that the British had a part to play in our development, it would be unfair of the British to try and get all the credit.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 8:48 pm

anneteoh wrote:
JayCee wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
You have every right to be in this forum as anyone else so Jaycee can try to build up Malaysia or Thailand - if they even welcome him - instead of boasting about how his country built up SG. He'stalking out of his hat and it's got a hole in it. I don't believe a word of that. We alll know who built up SG and we're not shouting it to deafen others.


Oh dear Anne, considering you've lived in the UK for however many years you still don't understand sarcasm very well do you? Did it not occur to you that Leona took the condescending tone with me so I might have been playing a little Devil's advocate with my "you are welcome" reply?

Jaycee, you've been away too long, you didn't catch up with the corruption in the houses of Parliament over here, including a few scroungers - large sums actually of over [color=green][color=red]200,000 + GBP of public money [/color]from some unscrupulous minsiters in the Hse of Lords just recently. It's not the constitution or the laws but what people do with them, or interprete them that is sinister.
Yes, I've lived in the UK too long. It's difficult to leave when my roots are partially here. Look, I'm used to enlightened company and we snot at others trying to put oothers down, get it?[/color]

There is a part truth in what I say though as Singapore wouldn't be corruption free (as apparently it is) without a UK-based law, although the fact that ministers here get more than Obama doesn't seem quite right btu that's another discussion entirely...


When the British colonial govt left SG, it was a sorry -looking downtown - Chinatown and the backwaters of kampongs and vegeland with a few grand Victorian buildings. It's SM LKY and his govt, together with some expats and the whole of S'poreans who built the city up. A shame I haven't the technology to show the pics.

Most S'poreans then spoke very little English, except the Eurasians perhaps, who acquire the language through the missionaries, most of whom did fairly good work.

SM LKY made English the official language for SG and it's thanks to him. He had a double 1st class honours in law as a Rhodes scholar in Cambridge - we know he's been groomed by the British to take charge. His wife was also a lawyer and was Chinese educated. It's to their, and the govt's credit that they steered SG on to the path to economic success.

Regarding the comparative presidential salaries, yes, I agree it's rather disproportionally different, considering the humoungous size of America and its resources. I believe that's to do with the strength in China and the SE Asian countries, which historically, had traded with each other since Lemuria. The Sunda Shelf was a princely trading ground for the Malayan and Indonesain archipelagos, Burma, Southern India, Vietnam , the Philippines, Southern China etc.

Today, I believe HK is equally wealthy and like SG , is a trading post for many of the region's resources. That's how Francis Light built up Penang anyway. And of course, there's Oz and NZ that are equally doing well.

But the astronomical amount of money is due to the learning of the Chinese language - it correlates with the abstraction of pure maths and have been proven thus in the us. Most of my Singlish speaking friends are far far richer than me because they're more proficient with financial matters than linguistic culture. No doubt, Marxism and Maoism were leant as tools for developing industries.

I believe the older generations of S'poreans do recognise the contributions made by the British in establishing the infrastructure for what's SG today.

anneteoh

Re: Bravo Leona123

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 9:19 pm

leona123 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
I'm jolly glad you're in the forum and I do say you're a fine teacher, and most of all, I'm, truly glad you're not Chinese because some might think we have a Chinese conspiracy to worship the SG govt.

:lol:

Were you teaching in Singapore, previously?

Yes , from 1999 - 2001. I really enjoyed myself and did outstandingly well, er, excuse the immodesty. I won 3 awards. I should have stuck it out.

And I just had to add...
I believe the older generations of S'poreans do recognise the contributions made by the British in establishing the infrastructure for what's SG today.

Actually, the younger generation recognise the contributions too. It's taught in social studies in the primary school. And I have to say this in a matter-of-fact tone (NOT condescending and NOT putting anyone or any country down). The British did leave us to fend for ourselves during the Japanese Occupation...And after Singapore "broke up" with Malaysia, the world was skeptical that Singapore would survive as a nation. As you already identified, it was LKY and his party that brought Singapore to where it is today. So, while we recognise and APPRECIATE that the British had a part to play in our development, it would be unfair of the British to try and get all the credit.


That sounds like the consistent integrity of the govt all over.
You're right, in fact, the Brits scampered off in Penang just before the Japs arrived, leaving the Chinese to write a desperate message, "The Brits have left" on bedsheets spread across the padang for the bombing Japs' planes. The bombs went down inspite of the message and there were huge casualties.
The colonial times were not exactly free of racism then. In fact, some of it was quite horrid but there're always good and bad guys throughout our history. It's a good thing the SG govt focus on the positive inheritance form all sides.
To pick up on the illustration you made regarding the use of the ethnicity data, it's done in a similar fashion in the UK. It's been used similarly to redistribute the racial components of the student catchment. Consequently, there's less bullying, improved behaviour and better exam results as a racially mixed school generates positive social integration and competitive learning.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:31 pm

The British did leave us to fend for ourselves during the Japanese Occupation...
Is this really true? As the way i have interpreted the writing on the wall in the museum, is very different to your statement. Could you direct me to a source of information as I do find the subject quite interesting. I would like to confirm the statement " British had left you to fend for yourselves". If it's really true, then they also left all the British soldiers that perished here under the occupation right and that would cause quite a storm in a tea cup? The colonial days were numbered before the war took place if i'm not wrong.

Though i doubt very much you have any idea of the cost of war, defending others :wink:

So I really would like to quote your intention as fact, as i really do have a feeling the British could lower themselves to sacrifice many people for politics. As an ex professional I am not a politically biased, unless I am being paid for it. :)


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