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anneteoh

Ethnicity Please?

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 1:11 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Yeah, but now I no longer classed as "Others" like I used to be! Others as in Alien? Now I'm Caucasian but the problem with that is both of my Children are also Caucasian even though their mother is Tamil! :???: As more and more Singaporeans marry inter-racially, the Government is having a hard time remaining profiling racists! :P


I believe 'Alien's' the term used in the US for foreigners. It's a disgusting term for 'Oglala' the indigenous American word for humans as they call themselves.
Now, in the Uk, and elsewhere, people are asked about their ethnicity in most 'official' situation e.g. job applications or attendence at various functions etc. A CO (conscientious objector) can write, " Lay off, you fascist!" if they like.
The govt need data, like most other govts. You must be having your boxing gloves on for the SG govt. A 'profiling racist' ??? I'm afraid that's what all govts are.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 1:58 am

JayCee wrote:
leona123 wrote:
JayCee wrote:Leona - why did you join a forum for foreigners in Singapore if you get so easily offended by people commenting on things that they don't like about Singapore? What did you expect to find here? It's not as though SMS was making vulgar comments such as Singapore sucks and the locals are idiots for speaking Singlish etc... he just commented on his dislike for it and you went off at the deep end, and you say you're a teacher too, let's hope the kids don't make you mad huh?


Jaycee, you are lazy because you have been taught to read but yet, you have not bothered to read the complete thread. I guess I would have to allow for your deficiencies. You are probably from a developing country, after all. And yeah, I am using the condescending tone here.

How does this go down with you? Perhaps, you would like to look through the entire thread and see if the above comment sounds familiar to you.

And seems like you completely missed MY comment...
leona123 wrote:I have no issues with you disliking Singlish. However, I DO have issues with you coming to our country and demanding((in the guise of being concerned that Singaporeans aren't following the government's initiatives) that we speak English to please you.
. You also seem to have missed the point that I did not take an offense to AngelJoy disliking Singlish and I even agreed with his/her comment on page 2.

As for this board, I don't remember reading anywhere, "Foreigners may call Singaporeans lazy (simply because they don't talk proper English) but Singaporeans must shut-up."

Disclaimer: And Jaycee, no, I don't think you are lazy simply because you missed some issues on this thread.


Nah, I'm from the country that helped build your one, that one over in the English channel that gave you the basis for what you are today rather than ending up like Malaysia or Thailand. You are welcome.

You can try and highlight a couple of points where you lamely protest that you don't have a problem with people criticising the use of Singlish, but your overall posts and the tones you use suggests anything but. It's clear as day you cannot handle anyone else's opinion other than your own, like I said before I hope those kids know how to keep their mouths shut and don't upset you, for their own sakes.


I'm done with you, clearly you just like the sound of your own voice so go ahead, keep digging


Poor Leona123!!!
My! You do have a large field for combat here! I hope you won't feel bad with some of the arrogance and despicablly unacceptable racist upfronts. Worse, there're people poking fun at Singlish too, though they're quite happy to draw SG salary.

Well done to you! It's high time, an SG girl throw down the gauntlet. I agree Singlish's not very nice to listen to, but we've got to get used to it. It's as good as Franglais or AE except that it's influenced by the mother tongues of Southern China and the Malay languages.

You have every right to be in this forum as anyone else so Jaycee can try to build up Malaysia or Thailand - if they even welcome him - instead of boasting about how his country built up SG. He'stalking out of his hat and it's got a hole in it. I don't believe a word of that. We alll know who built up SG and we're not shouting it to deafen others.

Your English is good, better than some who post here too. You're a teacher and you've handled this abominable class quite well. Who would you put the Dunce hat on? Sorry, I understand that's not the SG way, pai si lei tapi nm sai kia soo, lah! Whatever, it is, don't stick to your principles because these guys are winding you up and having a good laf.
Poitervarain SMS. Nan unday chapirakiri , ask your trouble and strive for this translation.

Some main points I drew out you might like to feed back to your classes:-

1. SM LKY ( in gold) is not a lingocrat though there're some who'd like to categorise all Asians as dictators. Funny how they only attack those who are not and fear to go near the real tigers! Grrr! LKY would like S'poreans to speak good English, and I have met many who amazed me with their oral and written fluency; but obviously some of these expats only meet heartlanders whose "Pidgin" is classic and historic while they themselves speak Australian, SA can English, AE or Franglais. The Filipos speak Spanish English with Tagalog anyway.

2. Of course there're no rolling tongue Rs in all Chinese languages . hence the 'lent' for 'rent' . Linguistically, Chinese and Vietnamese are the furthest removed languages in terms of pronunciation, from English. Likewise Chinese is the most difficult language to master in the world. Structurally, it's simple, semantically, it's impossible for foreigners, even some Chinese like me. That's what accounts for the 'laziness' . Singlish is spoken in a non-inflectional grammar, like Chinese. But the French retains their inflection to a large degree so they'll say, 'The name of my father is," while you try to stifle a yawn.

When foreigners speak Mandarin, they get the tones wrong unless they're musical; they order 40 bowls of soup instead of 10 sweets - this is for Mandarin speakers only. LKY knows this as he's proficient in Mandarin or was it his dear wife who's the bilingual one?

3. Language evolve organically and cannot be forced. There's a point about 'laziness' SMS made regarding the learning of another language. One might begin to think Singlish speakers are lazy, but it's more than that. S'poreans need to be assured that speaking the standard RP
( Received Pronunciation of the BBC) is about attaining international standard rather than imitating another language that's not theirs. I guess I can say this as I'm British and have lived in Europe - language is usually defined by the domains one's in.
But SMS is huffin' and puffin' to see if his bait works on you like the big bad wolf in Little Red Dottyhood. What's he bin reading in the ST in the last few days that's wound him up good?

To cut it short, as I'm not going to spend all my lovely evening writing a linguistic dissertation, Don't let any of the rude comments worry you. English is spoken very differently within Britain - there's a huge linguistic repertoire in the country and Singlish is one of the distant ones.

Some local English is " Spokin so good, you 'alf 'eard wot dey sai, ya, so ain't it all 'alf h...h'ot' 'ere aye? I ain't brung dis 'ere yet, yesterdey - ain't it a sarny, all butt'er and wa'er, all opinion an no substance? No nuthin' ain't git nothink bu' pissin'. What's ya wid yer lot?"

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 3:25 am

anneteoh wrote:Some local English is " Spokin so good, you 'alf 'eard wot dey sai, ya, so ain't it all 'alf h...h'ot' 'ere aye? I ain't brung dis 'ere yet, yesterdey - ain't it a sarny, all butt'er and wa'er, all opinion an no substance? No nuthin' ain't git nothink bu' pissin'. What's ya wid yer lot?"



Far out. Aunt Batty impersonates Ali G :wink: :o

By the way no once would suggest that Franglais is a distinct language, far from it. Rather it's an awkwardly fabricated mixture of French and English, used in humour often in a self-effacing manner, to underscore ones inability with the French language. In other words it is taking the mickey.

Wiki~
'In English, Frenglish means a mangled combination of English and French, produced either by poor knowledge of one or the other language or for humorous effect. Frenglish usually consists of either filling in gaps in one's knowledge of French with English words, using false friends with their incorrect meaning or speaking French in such a manner that (although ostensibly "French") would be incomprehensible to a French-speaker who does not also have a knowledge of English (for example, by using a literal translation of English idiomatic phrases).

The 19th century American writer Mark Twain, in Innocents Abroad, included the following letter to a Parisian landlord:[1]

“ PARIS, le 7 Juillet. Monsieur le Landlord--Sir: Pourquoi don't you mettez some savon in your bed-chambers? Est-ce que vous pensez I will steal it? La nuit passee you charged me pour deux chandelles when I only had one; hier vous avez charged me avec glace when I had none at all; tout les jours you are coming some fresh game or other on me, mais vous ne pouvez pas play this savon dodge on me twice. Savon is a necessary de la vie to any body but a Frenchman, et je l'aurai hors de cet hotel or make trouble. You hear me. Allons.


p.s. Leona's 'bed' is entirely of her own making, she's got what she wanted, and god if she didn't well she ought to look in the miror. And there is no 'racial' element. How can there we be, we don't even know what race she is?

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Postby leona123 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 4:36 am

I hope you won't feel bad with some of the arrogance and despicablly unacceptable racist upfronts.

Nope, I don't feel bad at all. And their arrogance HAVE been pointed out by others as well.

We all know who built up SG and we're not shouting it to deafen others

Spot on. Although, I AM almost itching to point out SINGAPORE'S HISTORY. Its achievements as well. However, I am humbled by the knowledge that things don't always stay the way they are which a number of them here fail to realise. And I don't wish to stoop to any of their levels and talk down on any of their countries and its citizens.

Whatever, it is, don't stick to your principles because these guys are winding you up and having a good laf.

Sorry, but I didn't quite understand you there.

Some main points I drew out you might like to feed back to your classes

Well, thanks for that.

Spokin so good, you 'alf 'eard wot dey sai, ya, so ain't it all 'alf h...h'ot' 'ere aye? I ain't brung dis 'ere yet, yesterdey - ain't it a sarny, all butt'er and wa'er, all opinion an no substance? No nuthin' ain't git nothink bu' pissin'

:???: 8-)


EDIT
The govt need data, like most other govts. You must be having your boxing gloves on for the SG govt. A 'profiling racist' ??? I'm afraid that's what all govts are.

Actually, Singapore government isn't just using the race as profiling. Contrary to some of their beliefs here, the race profiling is actually to AVOID racism and encourage social cohesion. For the person who has called majority Singaporeans myopic(or something to that effect), let's see if he can figure out how race profiling is used to encourage social cohesion or if he is still simply going to rattle on.
Last edited by leona123 on Wed, 10 Nov 2010 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby leona123 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 4:46 am

p.s. Leona's 'bed' is entirely of her own making, she's got what she wanted, and god if she didn't well she ought to look in the miror.

Coming from a person who has shown only arrogance and very little substance in all the postings I have come across so far.

Oops, couldn't help the personal attack!

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 5:05 am

Damn it's got to be tough having to get up so early every day to earn peanuts.

Can't get a decent job - you know competing with the expats?

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Postby leona123 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 5:23 am

JR8 wrote:Damn it's got to be tough having to get up so early every day to earn peanuts.

Can't get a decent job - you know competing with the expats?


Ignorance(as well as lack of substance) at play again.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 6:01 am

Ok... maybe too had-bar ah
Last edited by JR8 on Wed, 10 Nov 2010 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 6:36 am

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Some local English is " Spokin so good, you 'alf 'eard wot dey sai, ya, so ain't it all 'alf h...h'ot' 'ere aye? I ain't brung dis 'ere yet, yesterdey - ain't it a sarny, all butt'er and wa'er, all opinion an no substance? No nuthin' ain't git nothink bu' pissin'. What's ya wid yer lot?"



Far out. Aunt Batty impersonates Ali G :wink: :o
Doan gave me yur dirt'y vink yer fat ole naime cullin what's it. Yu is de kulprit, ras.
Ha, if we're in the same party, I do look years younger than you old man.
Noe go 'ave yur milk and say yur prayers.



p.s. Leona's 'bed' is entirely of her own making, she's got what she wanted, and god if she didn't well she ought to look in the miror. And there is no 'racial' element. How can there we be, we don't even know what race she is?


Know what? Well, you do really. And who is this guilty 'we' Hum? Tut, tut, man , you do give yourself away. She's obviously a lovely lady, perhaps a Kiwi or a Maori. You've not been in SG long enough to tell the difference. Leona's true SG born and bred.
But say, you sound damned nasty.
Last edited by anneteoh on Wed, 10 Nov 2010 6:50 am, edited 3 times in total.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 6:44 am

JR8 wrote:Damn it's got to be tough having to get up so early every day to earn peanuts.

Can't get a decent job - you know competing with the expats?


JR8 - watch that tongue - wonder where it comes from.
And you're just lolling about.
But really, this should be the worst I'd seen of you - now go back to the reef.
'Sabun' , from which the French got their 'savon' is an Arabic word btw.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 6:46 am

anneteoh wrote:
JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Some local English is " Spokin so good, you 'alf 'eard wot dey sai, ya, so ain't it all 'alf h...h'ot' 'ere aye? I ain't brung dis 'ere yet, yesterdey - ain't it a sarny, all butt'er and wa'er, all opinion an no substance? No nuthin' ain't git nothink bu' pissin'. What's ya wid yer lot?"



Far out. Aunt Batty impersonates Ali G :wink: :o
Doan gave me yur dirt'y vink yer fat ole naime cullin what's it. Yu is de kulprit, ras.
Ha, if we're in the same party, I do look years younger than you old man.
Noe go 'ave yur milk and say yur prayers.



p.s. Leona's 'bed' is entirely of her own making, she's got what she wanted, and god if she didn't well she ought to look in the miror. And there is no 'racial' element. How can there we be, we don't even know what race she is?


Know what? Well, you do really. And who is this guilty 'we' Hum? Tutu, tut, man , you do give yourself away. She's obviously a lovely lady, perhaps a Kiwi or a Maori.



Ah so, so you mean she is an uber gobby denied young cow, and therefore must be a cina. And you think everyone knew this...

Yah?

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 6:56 am

anneteoh wrote:
JR8 wrote:Damn it's got to be tough having to get up so early every day to earn peanuts.

Can't get a decent job - you know competing with the expats?


JR8 - watch that tongue - wonder where it comes from.
And you're just lolling about.
But really, this should be the worst I'd seen of you - now go back to the reef.
'Sabun' , from which the French got their 'savon' is an Arabic word btw.


Take care yourself Anne. It was not so long ago that you were thanking me for explaining to you what trolling was.

Well here we are. Isn't it fun hehe...?

anneteoh

Language is culture bound

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 7:19 am

We all know who built up SG and we're not shouting it to deafen others


Spot on. Although, I AM almost itching to point out SINGAPORE'S HISTORY. Its achievements as well. However, I am humbled by the knowledge that things don't always stay the way they are which a number of them here fail to realise. And I don't wish to stoop to any of their levels and talk down on any of their countries and its citizens.

There's no such thing as black and white you know. The truth is a grey cloak and one's reality is another's dream.

Whatever, it is, don't stick to your principles because these guys are winding you up and having a good laf.

Sorry, but I didn't quite understand you there.

I can see that you stick to your integrity and follow your argument linearly. Try to take it less seriously - as they say, Men are from Mars... which isn't totally true for all men here. You see as a teacher you'd know that some boys like to wind up girls and female teachers to get their attention. That's all I meant.

Some main points I drew out you might like to feed back to your classes

Well, thanks for that.

Spokin so good, you 'alf 'eard wot dey sai, ya, so ain't it all 'alf h...h'ot' 'ere aye? I ain't brung dis 'ere yet, yesterdey - ain't it a sarny, all butt'er and wa'er, all opinion an no substance? No nuthin' ain't git nothink bu' pissin'

:???: 8-)


EDIT
[quote Anneteoh] The govt need data, like most other govts. You must be having your boxing gloves on for the SG govt. A 'profiling racist' ??? I'm afraid that's what all govts are.[/quote]

Actually, Singapore government isn't just using the race as profiling. Contrary to some of their beliefs here, the race profiling is actually to AVOID racism and encourage social cohesion. For the person who has called majority Singaporeans myopic(or something to that effect), let's see if he can figure out how race profiling is used to encourage social cohesion or if he is still simply going to rattle on.[/quote]

SMS's a nice guy who gets up at dawn and work hard like you. He's also fiercely loyal, honest and has bags of character and integrity. Perhaps he's stressed about his son's NS. Calling the majority of S'poreans myopic is a gross generalisation, I agree.
That's why it's good to have you on the Forum. I personally found every S'porean I met different like most people. They all have different dreams, different POV and beliefs etc.
I am sorry you have this barrage of criticisms on your young shoulders Leona123 (say, what a name!) And in the same way, I feel for SG . It proves it's damned difficult to do everything right for everybody, doesn't it? I will always direct my energy to SG as it's a country that is truly multi-racial and multi-cultural.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 7:35 am

JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
JR8 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Some local English is " Spokin so good, you 'alf 'eard wot dey sai, ya, so ain't it all 'alf h...h'ot' 'ere aye? I ain't brung dis 'ere yet, yesterdey - ain't it a sarny, all butt'er and wa'er, all opinion an no substance? No nuthin' ain't git nothink bu' pissin'. What's ya wid yer lot?"



Far out. Aunt Batty impersonates Ali G :wink: :o
Doan gave me yur dirt'y vink yer fat ole naime cullin what's it. Yu is de kulprit, ras.
Ha, if we're in the same party, I do look years younger than you old man.
Noe go 'ave yur milk and say yur prayers.



p.s. Leona's 'bed' is entirely of her own making, she's got what she wanted, and god if she didn't well she ought to look in the miror. And there is no 'racial' element. How can there we be, we don't even know what race she is?


Know what? Well, you do really. And who is this guilty 'we' Hum? Tutu, tut, man , you do give yourself away. She's obviously a lovely lady, perhaps a Kiwi or a Maori.



Ah so, so you mean she is an uber gobby denied young cow, and therefore must be a cina. And you think everyone knew this...

Yah?


Nope. You just do have a chip, but really, this is just a lot of banality. Boy, you have a lot of hate, don't you? There's something at the bottom of all this. She's Chinese like me - and the King of Tonga will be pleased. But the way you say cina gives me bad vibs. Ah, I love China. She's a peaceful country.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 10 Nov 2010 9:36 am

leona123 wrote:Actually, Singapore government isn't just using the race as profiling. Contrary to some of their beliefs here, the race profiling is actually to AVOID racism and encourage social cohesion. For the person who has called majority Singaporeans myopic(or something to that effect), let's see if he can figure out how race profiling is used to encourage social cohesion or if he is still simply going to rattle on.

Leona,

I was not going to re-enter this discussion but....

As you are a teacher, if I were in your place, I would rail against the racial profiling. It's a slap in the face of every respectable teacher in Singapore. The government is obliquely telling you that you have not lifted the educational level of the young of this country. They keep going on about the 60's bus riots & the Maria Hertzog trial like it happened yesterday. For dogs sake, it's history it happened half a century ago. Are you trying to tell me that the local population are not better educated, have not better access to media than they did 50 years ago?

The biggest racist policy has been foisted on us by the government itself, with the HDB racist policy. YES, I can hear you already. But read this with an open mind. It does not change the fact that it's a racist policy when you tell someone that they cannot live or purchase a property on the open market, money notwithstanding, because they are the "wrong" race.

I have said this before, and I guess I'll have to say it again. When governments create rules based on race they are racist, regardless of whether the rule is benevolent in nature and is good for social cohesion (says who?). Check out any dictionary you desire to see the meaning of racism (facetiously - you are a teacher and I know damned well you know the textbook definition). Additionally, having been the majority in my own country, like you, the Chinese, are here in Singapore, AND having grown up through the years of segregation/integration in the US I am fully aware of what can/has happened when the majority creates laws without having walked a mile in the minority's shoes. The majority do not feel the effects of racist policies so therefore does not understand the psychological impact of said policies. The minorities, well, let's just say they suffer in silence for the general good. (I spend 35 years in the US as part of the majority and I've been here for over 28 as a minority (the smallest) married to a minority. Was I affected by the HDB policy? No. I was lucky in as much as I found a flat I wanted, and even though it was owned by a Chinese family, I was still able to buy as my wife's minority "quota" had room for one more so accusing me of having a chip on my shoulder won't wash either. That is not the point. What I rail at is the fact that Singaporeans who keep harping that there isn't any racism here. This is patently false. But unless you are a minority, I guarantee you will never feel it.

How would you, if a Malay, like it if your homes were razed to the ground to build a New Town and then told that you have to disperse to the far corners of the island, considering, as a Muslim, your whole life revolved around your mosque? Without the benefit of higher educations (this is another discussion not for here) most do not own cars (or did not) and transport from your new location in Chua Chu Kang to your family Mosque in Sengkang is difficult at best especially considering the requirements of the religion. Do they complain? Nah, at least not outwardly, but don't you think they carry the hurt of being considered nothing more than livestock to be moved around at will with absolutely no say in the matter as the "majority" race made all the rules? All minorities have this problem. On the one hand the government want & gives special grants to those who want the live near to their parents, etc, etc. but it would appear that this is only meant for the majority race as it's difficult to get racial allotment for the minorities to do this. When the majority controls 75% of the HDB housing quotas, it's not often that they cannot live where they want as long as they have the money. Not the same for the minorities regardless of how much money they might have. Also, consider the fact that up until a few years ago, the Malay's were not allows to hold any military rank higher that Major, I believe. They were also prevented from being in certain combat regiments as well. That isn't a racist policy? Pragmatic, maybe. Right? No. That sort of makes a mockery of the country based on meritocracy doesn't it.

I go on about the Malay's. I, unlike JR8, am not married to a Malay, but to me, an injustice is an injustice, regardless to whom it's directed.


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