Singaporean's singlish

[sundaymorningstaple]

If you don't like the shop simply because they can't speak your language, move on to another shop or better still, move out of the country to another country whose citizens speak in a language you understand. Some of you want to work here,earn the money and STILL whine about us not meeting YOUR language requirements.

Wrong. You are not even meeting your own governments requirements. Hence the need for "Speak Good English" campaigns which fail miserably every year just like the 33 year old courtesy campaign.

But let a Singaporean go on a 5 night 6 day tour to the UK and they come back with received pronunciation. Go Figure! Until they go into their local kopitiam and the tea lady doesn't understand them.

Yup, good going with the anecdotal evidence and hasty generalizations. Funny that most of the Singaporean friends I know speak English the way they always do even after a 15-day trip in another country (side note: Most Singaporeans generally don't go for just a 5 night 6 day tour to the UK. That's a utter waste of money to most of the Singaporeans I know.)

You obviously aren't in touch with the heartlanders are you. You should join a grass roots organization. You might be surprised what you can learn. It's been a huge learning experience for me. You might also want to check with Chan Bros on tours.

The problem is not the fact that the locals are unable to speak proper English, but moreso the gahmen tells the whole world that you are an English speaking country and that the language of government is English (not Singlish).

Oh, I see. So, I guess you were cheated into coming to Singapore because you thought Singapore was an English speaking country.

Nah, I knew what I expected back in '82, but then singlish was still in it's infancy. However, I hadn't expected the downward slide of the language here from when I was first here in '68 to be so rapid. But of course, back then in the 60's, most of the population spoke dialect and pidgin English, but those who were English educated spoke like, and had been taught by, native English speakers, unlike today. The younger generation (sub 40) of today who do speak the language well, almost without fail, either did some of tertiary education or worked overseas so had to learn in order to be understood.

Sadly, it's only about half of the MP's that can actually do so clearly on a world stage. There is something missing between the world bragging and the actual execution that causes the problem. The proverbial big buildup leading to an even bigger letdown. All the while, the gahmen exhorting the public to speak "good" English and "good" Mandarin. Seems that a lot here have a problem with both.

So, what is your point exactly? That you have suffered some big loss or trauma because the Singapore government was unable to get its citizen to speak what-you-call 'proper' English?

It is, after all, a developing country.

Do I sense a condescending tone here? As I always say, most of the times, what a person says reflects more about him than anything else.

Yup, it sure does and you sure have. Maybe you should go back and read your posts here thus far.......

[leona123]

You obviously aren't in touch with the heartlanders are you. You should join a grass roots organization. You might be surprised what you can learn. It's been a huge learning experience for me. You might also want to check with Chan Bros on tours.

Who exactly do you consider as 'heartlanders'. You obviously have not been speaking to MANY Singaporeans. (Note: I did mention 'most singaporeans')
http://www.chanbrothers.com/tours/ --> Go check it out. Interesting that they don't have package tours to just UK for 5 to 6 days. And packages are meant to cater to the majorities. So, what exactly am I supposed to be looking out for?

Nah, I knew what I expected back in '82, but then singlish was still in it's infancy. However, I hadn't expected the downward slide of the language here from when I was first here in '68 to be so rapid. But of course, back then in the 60's, most of the population spoke dialect and pidgin English, but those who were English educated spoke like, and had been taught by, native English speakers, unlike today. The younger generation (sub 40) of today who do speak the language well, almost without fail, either did some of tertiary education or worked overseas so had to learn in order to be understood.

Yeah, like you would NOT have come here had you known that this was going to happen. LOL.

Do I sense a condescending tone here? As I always say, most of the times, what a person says reflects more about him than anything else.

Yup, it sure does and you sure have. Maybe you should go back and read your posts here thus far.......

Yeah, all along, I am the one who has made disparaging remarks about people, their country, its language and homosexuals. So, I guess, I am the one who has to go look at my posts to see the kind of arrogant person I truly am.

[leona123]

Wrong. You are not even meeting your own governments requirements. Hence the need for "Speak Good English" campaigns which fail miserably every year just like the 33 year old courtesy campaign.

And your problem with us not meeting our own government requirements? That's our own local problem. Don't like it? Leave the country.
It's truly ironic that YOU are talking about my country failing courtesy campaign with all your 'positive' comments about my country while living(and probably even working) here. I would like to point out to you that in return, I have not made a single disparaging remark about your country, the way your countrymen speak, its current leadership or the way it handled the economic crisis. Sorry, but who has forgotten basic courtesy here?

[nakatago]

And we don't expect foreigners to learn Singlish to communicate with us.

Gee, asking simple questions from Malaysian or Singaporean store attendants in spots frequented by tourists imply otherwise. I get better luck from PRC's who barely know English.

And to add, someone [somewhat broken] English in a Singaporean accent is vastly different from someone speaking in Singlish. Or Manglish.

Nope, we don't EXPECT foreigners to learn Singlish to communicate with us. However, that doesn't mean we have to go out of our way to put people who speak your English into ALL shops that tourists frequent. If you don't like the shop simply because they can't speak your language, move on to another shop or better still, move out of the country to another country whose citizens speak in a language you understand. Some of you want to work here,earn the money and STILL whine about us not meeting YOUR language requirements. Also interesting to note that this problem is unique to a few of you (from what I understand). Most of the foreigners I know don't seem to have much of a problem adapting (without learning to speak Singlish). This is also quite evident in some of the responses posted here.

Oh I, like many others, adapt. This is just one thing that continue to bother a lot of people. It's there, we deal with it but that doesn't mean we like it. The problem, like so many have said before is meeting expectations.

But I grow weary of this exchange. You seem to have a problem dealing with contrary views without being too emotionally charged.

[sundaymorningstaple]

She's just a prime example of a large segment of this country's citizen with their passive-aggressive nature. When backed into a corner or faced with an unpleasant admission, they either 'try' to attack some innocuous statement in order to deflect the criticism or point being made or just ignore it and continue to rant. These actions are typical as we have seen here time and time again. Rather than own the problem and addressing how it might be fixed, they pretend it isn't there and bury their head in the sand. 1st world infrastructure but......

[nakatago]

She's just a prime example of a large segment of this country's citizen with their passive-aggressive nature. When backed into a corner or faced with an unpleasant admission, they either 'try' to attack some innocuous statement in order to deflect the criticism or point being made or just ignore it and continue to rant. These actions are typical as we have seen here time and time again. Rather than own the problem and addressing how it might be fixed, they pretend it isn't there and bury their head in the sand. 1st world infrastructure but......

Where's SGboyxxx? He must be busy with stuff.

[leona123]

Gee, asking simple questions from Malaysian or Singaporean store attendants in spots frequented by tourists imply otherwise. I get better luck from PRC's who barely know English.

And to add, someone [somewhat broken] English in a Singaporean accent is vastly different from someone speaking in Singlish. Or Manglish.

Nope, we don't EXPECT foreigners to learn Singlish to communicate with us. However, that doesn't mean we have to go out of our way to put people who speak your English into ALL shops that tourists frequent. If you don't like the shop simply because they can't speak your language, move on to another shop or better still, move out of the country to another country whose citizens speak in a language you understand. Some of you want to work here,earn the money and STILL whine about us not meeting YOUR language requirements. Also interesting to note that this problem is unique to a few of you (from what I understand). Most of the foreigners I know don't seem to have much of a problem adapting (without learning to speak Singlish). This is also quite evident in some of the responses posted here.

Oh I, like many others, adapt. This is just one thing that continue to bother a lot of people. It's there, we deal with it but that doesn't mean we like it. The problem, like so many have said before is meeting expectations.

But I grow weary of this exchange. You seem to have a problem dealing with contrary views without being too emotionally charged.

Yeah, I guess it is right that I am viewed as emotionally charged when I respond to foreigners who come to work in my country and call my countrymen lazy simply because they don't use the English they have been taught.

[leona123]

She's just a prime example of a large segment of this country's citizen with their passive-aggressive nature. When backed into a corner or faced with an unpleasant admission, they either 'try' to attack some innocuous statement in order to deflect the criticism or point being made or just ignore it and continue to rant. These actions are typical as we have seen here time and time again. Rather than own the problem and addressing how it might be fixed, they pretend it isn't there and bury their head in the sand. 1st world infrastructure but......

Yes, go on with your blanket statements, hasty generalizations and ad hominems without providing specific examples to support your claims.

As for 'owning the problem', nope, I DON'T happen to consider Singlish a problem and thus, don't find the need to have it fixed. As I clearly mentioned, I am proud of my native language. And I WILL repeat that I will try to make foreigners feel welcome by speaking 'proper' English. However, I will NOT have foreigners demand that from us and call us lazy simply because we choose not to(in some cases, unable to) to use what we have been taught in school.

[sundaymorningstaple]

As for 'owning the problem', nope, I DON'T happen to consider Singlish a problem and thus, don't find the need to have it fixed. As I clearly mentioned, I am proud of my native language. And I WILL repeat that I will try to make foreigners feel welcome by speaking 'proper' English. However, I will NOT have foreigners demand that from us and call us lazy simply because we choose not to(in some cases, unable to) to use what we have been taught in school.

Therein lies your problem. "singlish" is NOT your native language. The sooner you admit that, the more respect you are liable to garner here. Otherwise, you would do better drumming up support from other myopic locals on sgforums or some such.

Most foreigners don't harp on it to belittle Singaporeans. I know I don't. Just the opposite in fact. A lot of us have invested a lot of years, time & effort on this little Red Dot trying to better the place. We have given of ourselves to try to make this a better place that when we came here. It hurts when we see all the efforts we've put in being erased or otherwise nullified by the locals and how their actions make them look on the world stage. When a lot of tourists arrive here they are marveled at the 1st world infrastructure, but by the time they leave, they realize the unfortunately, the inhabitants don't measure up to the infrastructure.

Why do I stay? Because of family ties and promises made. No other reason I can assure you. Although I still try to help via the People's Association which is almost a full time job in of itself.

I don't believe, listening to the government here, that they want "singlish" to be the native language either. Of course, you can try to vote for the opposition so as to try to change that. We understand that you don't speak English to make us feel welcome. You (not meaning YOU yourself) speak it because of lack of ability. Huge numbers of children are taught English by using singlish. A goodly number of the "English" teachers here use singlish and worse while teaching in school - this I know for fact as I've had 15 years of correcting the English "homework" given out to my children who were in both "neighbourhood" and "ranked" schools.

It's not pride you feel. It's the passive-aggressiveness that won't allow you to accept facts when they stare you in the face. Especially considering that it's the Government that is telling you you're wrong. Not us. We are just repeating the government line.

[beppi]

It is, after all, a developing country.

Developing yes - in the sense that things are evolving and the country is moving on.

But since Singapore's GDP per heard (PPP) is now higher than most "developed" (i.e. not growing as fast any more) countries, incl. USA, Japan and major European economies (i.e. Singapore is richer than those), any economic arrogance apparent in above posts by people from those countries is delusional at best.

(And before you accuse me of arrogance in the other direction: I am European and worry about my homeland's future far more than about Singapore's!)

[beppi]

But back to the topic of language:

A whiner complains about the situation, another person might adapt himself to what he finds and make best use of it.

Who will be more successful in the end?

[nakatago]

But back to the topic of language:

A whiner complains about the situation, another person might adapt himself to what he finds and make best use of it.

Who will be more successful in the end?

You forgot about those who adapt, make the best out of anything AND still complain. (look, ma. I can use caps too).

[sundaymorningstaple]

And then there are the devil's advocates.......

[leona123]

Therein lies your problem. "singlish" is NOT your native language. The sooner you admit that, the more respect you are liable to garner here.

Oh, yes it IS. I'm a Singaporean and you are here telling me what my native language isn't? Lol.
And I'm not here to garner respect from the likes of YOU. I'm sorry but from your condescending tone, prejudices and hasty generalizations supported only by your anecdotal evidence, I don't have much respect for you. Thank goodness not many foreigners here are like you.

A lot of us have invested a lot of years, time & effort on this little Red Dot trying to better the place. We have given of ourselves to try to make this a better place that when we came here. It hurts when we see all the efforts we've put in being erased or otherwise nullified by the locals and how their actions make them look on the world stage. When a lot of tourists arrive here they are marveled at the 1st world infrastructure, but by the time they leave, they realize the unfortunately, the inhabitants don't measure up to the infrastructure.

Yup, Singapore has become a laughing stock on the world stage because of our Singlish. LOL. All I see is just more anecdotal evidence above. And as for your oh-so-touching words on how much efforts YOU'VE put in, perhaps, you would just like to take a step-back and read through all your posts again. All you seem to be doing is putting a lot of effort into putting its citizens down with your anecdotal evidence.

I don't believe, listening to the government here, that they want "singlish" to be the native language either.

The government doesn't have an issue with Singlish. It has an issue that we don't speak 'proper' English when the need arises. Government will shut up when most of us learn to 'code switch'.

Huge numbers of children are taught English by using singlish. A goodly number of the "English" teachers here use singlish and worse while teaching in school - this I know for fact as I've had 15 years of correcting the English "homework" given out to my children who were in both "neighbourhood" and "ranked" schools.

Oh, puh-lease. I am a teacher. We don't use Singlish while teaching in school. And neither do we use it to speak to our children. In fact, we don't even use Singlish amongst us when in a formal environment (e.g. meetings, presentations, validations). So, don't claim for a fact what you have NOT seen for yourself.

It's not pride you feel. It's the passive-aggressiveness that won't allow you to accept facts when they stare you in the face.

Oh, there you go again, telling me about 'facts' when all you have provided so far is just anecdotal evidence. And nope, its not passive-aggressiveness. I AM proud of Singlish. I have no issues with you disliking Singlish. However, I DO have issues with you coming to our country and demanding((in the guise of being concerned that Singaporeans aren't following the government's initiatives) that we speak English to please you.

Especially considering that it's the Government that is telling you you're wrong. Not us. We are just repeating the government line.

It's not like you agree with everything the Singapore government tells us. You have just decided to use the government in this particular issue to support YOUR dislikes of Singlish. So, quit pretending that you are concerned that we citizens aren't following the government's desires.

[sundaymorningstaple]

You are proud of "singlish" and you claim to be a teacher, then claim that "I" don't know what I'm talking about, even after putting both my children through the local school system and having numerous discussion with the teachers of my children for incorrect grammar, etc. I HAVE seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears. I'll give you credit where credit is due, but frankly, you blew your whole case when you admitted to being a teacher. I don't believe you can show me anything in writing or in the newspapers that supports your claim that the government supports 'singlish' in any form. Code switching or otherwise. I will admit though, you would make a good SDP member as you don't seem to be able to see the forest for the trees. And when presented with facts, you just side track or pretend that they aren't facts. Actually, you seem to be only repeating the same accusations over and over, much like a parrot. Local programming? As you cannot seem to come up with anything new or factual yourself, I find this has become rather tedious, so I'll just let you rail against the wind. There's nothing anybody here can say to "teach" you anything as you seem to think you know it all. At least your 'version' of the truth.