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Singaporean's singlish

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nakatago
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Postby nakatago » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 8:21 pm

anneteoh wrote:Lame excuses. All your use of language devices cannot absolve the grossness of those making cheap jokes at other's expense. If this is the jokes and rubbish thread, one can shrug it off as a typical black humour; but it's not, so get your context right in a discussion.


If you're going to charge me, at least get your accusations right.

I will no longer debate with you.

You don't stand a chance against me.

You never did.



For other followers of this thread, I apologize for the digression.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 8:29 pm

anneteoh wrote:
AngelJoy wrote:wow this thread's pretty long right now.
I just don’t understand what gives Singaporeans so much confidence about their pronunciation.

sometimes when you cant speak the way they do they think it's your fault.


You've got off the fence but which side are you on?
Regarding S'porean pronunciation, one theory is the mother tongue influence, which some prejudiced linguists termed negatively as ' First Language Iintereferences'.

Chinese pronunciation of English is not based on gutteral articulations such as that which train some come uppance English in elocution - that's right , open up your mouth, drop your jaw, stretch your lips, flash your dentals etc and say How, Now, Cow Brown, dAy instead of deiy and so on.Of course, when you pass that stage, you get tight lipped or a plum in your mouth.

Instead, the Chinese had a long imperial culture based on Confucian virtue and face values; hence its articulation does not show teeth. gum, tongue or a wide open mouth but is controlled by the bilabials, africates and fricatives. Try saying Wo men yi ji chu qi chi fan, if my pinyin's quite right. Imagine saying that in your long robes, bound feet and high collars while shiedling your face behind those wide flowing sleeves that ladies wear in the dynasties period. Of course then, your job's to please and not to hold up half the sky.

Articulating English pronunciation will be more like wearing plunging necklines and mini skirts; i.e. a show all instead of a hide all.
Other possible theories might be :
1. it might be that those with shortfalls in their vowel pronunciation in English do not listen well
2. they are genetically conditioned ( a fallacy of course ) but worth an anatomical check
3. they give up before they try
4. they want to be different
5. they can't be bothered.

I'd say, it's a complex mixture of all these reasons.
I wouldn't say all S'poreans have Singlish pronunciation ; in fact, I'd say most S'poreans speak perfectly excellent English.


What the hell does this have to do with speaking Singlish? I see the same crap here in this thread justifying the speaking of Singlish as I do Ebonics.

Face it. Some people speak (and write) good English. Others do not. Many Singaporeans, in spite of an English based educational system do not. No need to be an apologist. It is what it is.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 9:22 pm

[quote="Strong Eagle
What the hell does this have to do with speaking Singlish? I see the same crap here in this thread justifying the speaking of Singlish as I do Ebonics.

Face it. Some people speak (and write) good English. Others do not. Many Singaporeans, in spite of an English based educational system do not. No need to be an apologist. It is what it is.[/quote]

Char Koay Teow's not Ean O.
Many S'poreans speak good English but code switch to Singlish when people who speak rudely are around.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 9:27 pm

anneteoh wrote:Char Koay Teow's not Ean O.
Many S'poreans speak good English but code switch to Singlish when people who speak rudely are around.


??? More bunk. And I'm not going to explain why I know that.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:05 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Char Koay Teow's not Ean O.
Many S'poreans speak good English but code switch to Singlish when people who speak rudely are around.


??? More bunk. And I'm not going to explain why I know that.


Our history, langauge and culture is what we love and Singlish, is a polite language esp. to strangers. You don't go through the same processes so you're not the intended audience.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:10 pm

nakatago wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Lame excuses. All your use of language devices cannot absolve the grossness of those making cheap jokes at other's expense. If this is the jokes and rubbish thread, one can shrug it off as a typical black humour; but it's not, so get your context right in a discussion.


If you're going to charge me, at least get your accusations right.

I will no longer debate with you.

You don't stand a chance against me.

You never did.

This is as far as you go in discussions. There's no need to butter up any sides in a debate . Just be honest and stick to your allegation instead of usig me as your digression. If you really wanted to win, you know what you can do. For other followers of this thread, I apologize for the digression.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:47 pm

anneteoh wrote:Our history, langauge and culture is what we love and Singlish, is a polite language esp. to strangers. You don't go through the same processes so you're not the intended audience.

:-#

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Postby leona123 » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:48 pm

Ok, I see that I've been missing out on a lot...

nakatago wrote:Congratulations, Ms. Teoh, you're the first one to actually piss me off on the internet.

What??!! I thought I had the honour of doing that?

AngelJoy wrote:I just don’t understand what gives Singaporeans so much confidence about their pronunciation.
sometimes when you cant speak the way they do they think it's your fault.

Don't get you. Why would it be YOUR fault IF WE are unable to pronounce words properly? And there are many reasons(some pointed out by anneteoh) for why some Singaporeans do not pronounce their words properly.
SE, pointing out those facts does not mean that she is an apologist. As for how many Singaporeans do and do not speak good English, it is PURELY OPINION-BASED. I see no point in harping over this issue.

anneteoh wrote:I wouldn't say all S'poreans have Singlish pronunciation ; in fact, I'd say most S'poreans speak perfectly excellent English.

As a Singaporean, if you have a decent education (at least secondary school), you will be able to code switch between English and Singlish. The part which I personally find most foreigners have problem is, is the speed at which we speak.

anneteoh wrote:Many S'poreans speak good English but code switch to Singlish when people who speak rudely are around.

Well, personally, I'm tempted to do that to the rude foreigners. Don't see why I need to give in to the demands of rude foreigners coming to my country, earning SG $ and still demanding that I speak English in a way that they understand so that they can fit in. (I wonder how foreigners would feel if I went to their country to work and demanded that they speak the language which I feel is pleasant to my ears?) Can't eat your cake and have it too!

nakatago wrote:I will no longer debate with you.
You don't stand a chance against me.
You never did.

Wow, you are one humble person, aren't you?

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Postby aargon » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:52 pm

Singlish - its one of those languages you dont want your kids picking up unless you plan on living here the rest of your life. :???:

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:11 pm

leona123 wrote:Ok, I see that I've been missing out on a lot...

nakatago wrote:Congratulations, Ms. Teoh, you're the first one to actually piss me off on the internet.

What??!! I thought I had the honour of doing that?

nakatago wrote:I will no longer debate with you.
You don't stand a chance against me.
You never did.

Wow, you are one humble person, aren't you?


I never made a claim to be otherwise.

Don't worry; I'm peeved at you too. Just peeved but not quited pissed off yet. You're welcome.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:16 pm

leona123 wrote:Well, personally, I'm tempted to do that to the rude foreigners. Don't see why I need to give in to the demands of rude foreigners coming to my country, earning SG $ and still demanding that I speak English in a way that they understand so that they can fit in. (I wonder how foreigners would feel if I went to their country to work and demanded that they speak the language which I feel is pleasant to my ears?) Can't eat your cake and have it too!

I guess hardly anybody demands it from Singaporeans. Frankly, myself as a non-native speaker have less troubles to understand Singaporeans than for example British. Still, the missed point is not to call something an apple if this is a plum.

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:17 am

[quote="leona123"]Ok, I see that I've been missing out on a lot...

Good to have you back. Leona, you haven't missed much except in the defence of Singlish. Would you consider a one liner, or a one word slang of substance in any discussion?
In retrospect, if you reread the opening thread by a Singaporean doing research on Singlish, it was most politely presented. Is it typical that some piranhas are tearing anything SG holds sacred - such as decent manners to pieces?

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 20 Nov 2010 1:08 am

leona123 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Many S'poreans speak good English but code switch to Singlish when people who speak rudely are around.

Well, personally, I'm tempted to do that to the rude foreigners. Don't see why I need to give in to the demands of rude foreigners coming to my country, earning SG $ and still demanding that I speak English in a way that they understand so that they can fit in.


Often SGns bad-mouth foreigners behind their backs, you know in the street, shops, on the MRT. My wife delights in translating for me what is being said about me/us. Such inclusive and tolerant people the Singaporeans. Absolutely no racism, it's all jolly harmony. Thank God Asian countries are all owned, I mean led by 'Strong men'. The weak people certainly need it.

What's your issue with people coming to SG and earning money Leona? Reverting to the usual, expected, sour grapes. That said I suppose someone popping up here asking what to do with a monthly rent allowance that equals your annual salary has got to sting. Anyway, it's your government policy. Why do you think the government is wrong?

Most Singaporeans are incomphrehensibe. And yet it is the government policy that you speak English. Which bit of that policy do you think is wrong?

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sat, 20 Nov 2010 4:24 am

aargon wrote:Singlish - its one of those languages you dont want your kids picking up unless you plan on living here the rest of your life. :???:


Why bring your kids there? In fact, why work, lest of all, live in a place you so detest? What lies did you tell at the job interview?

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Sat, 20 Nov 2010 4:59 am

JR8 wrote:
leona123 wrote:
anneteoh wrote:Many S'poreans speak good English but code switch to Singlish when people who speak rudely are around.

Well, personally, I'm tempted to do that to the rude foreigners. Don't see why I need to give in to the demands of rude foreigners coming to my country, earning SG $ and still demanding that I speak English in a way that they understand so that they can fit in.


Often SGns bad-mouth foreigners behind their backs, you know in the street, shops, on the MRT. My wife delights in translating for me what is being said about me/us. Such inclusive and tolerant people the Singaporeans. Absolutely no racism, it's all jolly harmony. Thank God Asian countries are all owned, I mean led by 'Strong men'. The weak people certainly need it.

Something's very wrong somewhere. If you don't understand Singlish at all, how do you know what they're saying about you? I lived in SG for 2.4 years and I'd never heard anyone making any comments on westerners. From what I'd understood of S'poreans, they're indifferent to other people's lives.

What's your issue with people coming to SG and earning money Leona? Reverting to the usual, expected, sour grapes. That said I suppose someone popping up here asking what to do with a monthly rent allowance that equals your annual salary has got to sting. Anyway, it's your government policy. Why do you think the government is wrong?

You're perverting the course of Leona's defence , as usual. You resort to cutting deep personal insults and I really haven't met any character , however bad in real life, who'd say things as horrid as some of the stuff you'd said here to Leona. I'm surprised, why with all your hatred, you bothered to go there in the first place. No wonder you've turned paranoid.It's certainly untrue that all foreigners earn more than S'poreans. I have no grudge against anyone's earnings; neither would I ever put others' down that way. I've come across expats who love SG and even defend it against unfair criticisms and I'm glad theyshould be well paid. Is this petty, trite grudging moaner really you?

Most Singaporeans are incomphrehensibe. And yet it is the government policy that you speak English. Which bit of that policy do you think is wrong?


Another perversion when you know some of their English is better than yours. Don't worry either - they'll get so tired with you, they'll have a Mandarin, Malay, Indonesian, Tamil or Panjabi language policy all lined up.


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