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Singaporean's singlish

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Re: Take that

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:12 am

anneteoh wrote:
Pidgin refers to Chinese English and is different from partois or creole.If you're insulting Chinese English as 'kitchen sink', don't beggar yourself.


Originally, but linguists today include many others as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin#Terminology

Common traits among pidgin languages

Since a pidgin language is a fundamentally simpler form of communication, the grammar and phonology are usually as simple as possible, and usually consist of:

* Uncomplicated clausal structure (e.g., no embedded clauses, etc)
* Reduction or elimination of syllable codas
* Reduction of consonant clusters or breaking them with epenthesis
* Basic vowels, such as /a, e, i, o, u/
* No tones, such as those found in West African and Asian languages
* Use of separate words to indicate tense, usually preceding the verb
* Use of reduplication to represent plurals, superlatives, and other parts of speech that represent the concept being increased
* A lack of morphophonemic variation


Sure sounds like Singlish to me.

anneteoh

Re: Take that

Postby anneteoh » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:21 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
Pidgin refers to Chinese English and is different from partois or creole.If you're insulting Chinese English as 'kitchen sink', don't beggar yourself.


Originally, but linguists today include many others as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin#Terminology

Common traits among pidgin languages

Since a pidgin language is a fundamentally simpler form of communication, the grammar and phonology are usually as simple as possible, and usually consist of:

* Uncomplicated clausal structure (e.g., no embedded clauses, etc)
- Not in an inflectional way, but there are embedded
clauses

* Reduction or elimination of syllable codas
- Codas refer to musical phrasing/ending - a vague point
* Reduction of consonant clusters or breaking them with epenthesis
- examples needed - vague point
* Basic vowels, such as /a, e, i, o, u/
- nothing concrete as the vowels are a big area to compare, notwithstanding the shifting vowels in spoken English itself.
* No tones, such as those found in West African and Asian languages
- truer for Nigerian English, pidgin has tones, like its Chinese transfer
* Use of separate words to indicate tense, usually preceding the verb
Not exactly true - already done, done already and as in such cases ; the use of gone is also common, whereas the historic present tense 'finish' is similar to Cockney spoken English
* Use of reduplication to represent plurals, superlatives, and other parts of speech that represent the concept being increased
- lots and lots of which is English phrased, pidginers use repetitions for different purposes as substitutes for the Chinese versions.
* A lack of morphophonemic variation

- no Ss in Chinese or eds - they have different markers.

Sure sounds like Singlish to me.


Regarding the linguistic details:
* Singlish is marked by other features in the terminals such as leh, lah, loh etc not present in pidgin which is mainly a 19 century Chinese domain whereas Singlish has Southern Chinese dialectal influences in its construction, phonology and tone but Singlish is purely a SG domain; with influences from the Malay language too.
It might be rare to find pidgin speakers nowadays, even in China.
Much else, but I don't intend to run a linguistic treatise on Singlish in the forum - much else to do, SMS.
The list above is by no means exhaustive, if you care to add on from what you hear.
Langauges are alive so it changes and evolve all the time. No Can Do, is pidgin but is now a sophisticated business phrase , one's proud to use in a conference.
All languages are thieves i.e. they borrow from each other and accent vary from region to region and is also class influenced.
Most of the descriptors above are more inclined to analyse pidgin from the Chinese language and pays no heed to that variety of Chinese languages and their divergent influences on pidgin e.g. there are 4 tones in Mandarin but 9 in Cantonese.
That there's no tone in pidgin ? Sounds more like Nigerian English.
Last edited by anneteoh on Tue, 16 Nov 2010 1:06 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby EADG » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:32 am

Yes SMS.

BTW the "kitchen sink" reference that the one with the persecution complex mistakenly and angrily found a way to fabricate into an insult, was just a lazier way to represent that unique mix which exists here of Malay, Indonesian, English, various Hokkien, etc. Chinese dialects, Indian, and I'm sure some others, that comprises the local vernacular.


And kudos to those who had to yet again point out the unfortunate and ignorant use of the term "Jap".
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Postby EADG » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:42 am

All but one...as a brief stint as a Greaser in HS I was rather proud of that term. Years later they even made a dopey movie about us starring Travolta and what's-her-name!

But we actually preferred "Gearheads", but you had to have the right car to earn that one.


Strong Eagle wrote:Jap = Kike = Wop = Spic = Hun = Slopehead = Slanteye = Goyum = Raghead = Chink = Coon = Frog = Greaser = <the>

All designed to dehumanize those that are not like us.
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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:47 am

EADG wrote:All but one...as a brief stint as a Greaser in HS I was rather proud of that term. Years later they even made a dopey movie about us starring Travolta and what's-her-name!

But we actually preferred "Gearheads", but you had to have the right car to earn that one.


Strong Eagle wrote:Jap = Kike = Wop = Spic = Hun = Slopehead = Slanteye = Goyum = Raghead = Chink = Coon = Frog = Greaser = <the>

All designed to dehumanize those that are not like us.


For us South Texas boys, a greaser was a Mexican.

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Postby EADG » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 12:56 am

Aha....I see...

Some Nooyawkas referred to them as "construction workers", which was anything but derogatory. Hard-working people.

But we did have others that aren't in your list. Like one that describes me - guinea.

We didn't care, we all called each other these things in jest, seeing who could top who without getting angry.

Strong Eagle wrote:
EADG wrote:All but one...as a brief stint as a Greaser in HS I was rather proud of that term. Years later they even made a dopey movie about us starring Travolta and what's-her-name!

But we actually preferred "Gearheads", but you had to have the right car to earn that one.


Strong Eagle wrote:Jap = Kike = Wop = Spic = Hun = Slopehead = Slanteye = Goyum = Raghead = Chink = Coon = Frog = Greaser = <the>

All designed to dehumanize those that are not like us.


For us South Texas boys, a greaser was a Mexican.
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Re: Take that

Postby EADG » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 7:41 pm

お前は、横柄で喧しいぞ

had to borrow a keyboard for that

anneteoh wrote:You're obvioulsy a layman....You're just a monolingual ....so the joke's on you for all that. It's like teaching the concept of bilingualism to a rhino.....you can't fathom anything deeper than your garden pond.
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Re: Take that

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 8:46 pm

EADG wrote:お前は、横柄で喧しいぞ


Makes for an interesting (translated) google search.

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Re: Take that

Postby JR8 » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 8:52 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
EADG wrote:お前は、横柄で喧しいぞ


Makes for an interesting (translated) google search.


'Engage brain before opening mouth'?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 9:12 pm

How about "You, being haughty, are noisy"

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Postby EADG » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 9:34 pm

The Google translator missed one of two adjectives and kinda missed on the nuance
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Postby JR8 » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 10:37 pm

EADG wrote:The Google translator missed one of two adjectives and kinda missed on the nuance


Or maybe

"For one so ready to take offence, you sure as hell know how to dish it out in banquet portion servings"

huh? :wink:

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Postby leona123 » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 11:57 pm

EADG wrote:Maybe that's why those two are easy on the ears, whereas Singlish grates, and worse so with a faux-British accent.

I had to laugh out loud when I heard this. Singlish does NOT have a British accent. Have you even heard Singlish before?! Anyway, anneteoh has already pointed that out.

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Postby leona123 » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 11:57 pm

It is truly amazing that there are so many buffoons here who think making ONLY snide remarks actually constitutes an intelligent contribution. Well, you guys should really continue with the snide remarks. I completely love to see some of you make yourself come across as completely immature. Keep it coming, guys. PLEASE DON'T STOP!

anneteoh

Re: Take that

Postby anneteoh » Tue, 16 Nov 2010 11:59 pm

EADG wrote:お前は、横柄で喧しいぞ

had to borrow a keyboard for that

anneteoh wrote:You're obvioulsy a layman....You're just a monolingual ....so the joke's on you for all that. It's like teaching the concept of bilingualism to a rhino.....you can't fathom anything deeper than your garden pond.


Far out. But as SE pointed out it's pasted... still, thanks for the trouble. I suppose you're an American Japanese? I don't understand it - care to translate? You really needn't have to insult Singlish though. For your punishment, you'll have to reply in Singlish.


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