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Unpaid Salary

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allmintpower
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Unpaid Salary

Postby allmintpower » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:48 am

Dear all,
my 1st post and sad to say need to ask any of you ever encountered the above mentioned issue or any HR experts who can help to clear my doubts? Have tried to surf the Ministry of Manpower website to see the rights of employees but think would like to have more opinions before deciding what my next step should be.

Have tendered my resignation and now serving the last month of my notice (2 months), have also requested to offset my leave so that I can shorten my notice period but still pending with reasons from them saying that they are in the midst of finding new person to take over my post but didn’t see them interviewing people anymore after a few times.

The director of the current small company is an Ang Moh, also got another branch in his native country. Right now, the company is facing deep debts from suppliers, office rental etc and also chased by them with legal letters for payment.

We are supposed to be paid for our salary on the last day of the month which is stated in our employment letter. However, up till now, only afew of my colleagues (only those who still have usage to the director) have already got their July salaries while the rest of my other colleagues including me have not got our salaries for the month of July.

The director does not have any individual meeting with those unpaid staff to tell us personally why we are not paid yet, still treating as if nothing has happened with a negative EQ attitude. My manager told me this morning (which the director is supposed to be the one telling me this) saying that the reason why I’m not paid yet is not because I have tendered my resignation, those unpaid staff will be paid once the big order has come in from one overseas big customer but all are just verbal agreement, no pre-payment in yet from them. At the moment, there are a lot of still a lot of games going on from the so called overseas big customer and their reseller. After hearing all this bullshit, I shoot back to the manager does it mean we don’t need to get our salaries If no pre-payment coming from the so called big customer? Somemore, the manager told me she also has not gotten her July salary yet which I just treated it as bullshit.

Should I go to MOM to report this unpaid salary after 7 days (I suppose the 7 days inclusive of weekends as stated in MOM website?) from the day of the supposed salary date in July 2010? Anyway, the director has already been reported a few times before by unfairly treated ex-staff from what I know of. I’m in a dilemma now as I’m serving my notice period, really don’t want to leave so unhappily although I’m dragging my feet to work everyday and counting down.

Any advice? Thanks in advance….

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 2:06 am

You are in the final stage of your resignation and serving your final days as part of the employment act and what has stated in your employment contract. You have followed all the steps to the T
If you have not been paid for your previous month, you have every right to go to MOM to serve notice of backdated pay. Bring all the documents and show proof to MOM that you have not been paid for the previous month and your employment contract.
You need to eat right ? So all those BS that your company said does not have any meaning to you.In any case, payment need to be done for any work completed. In your case monthly salary. Unless you have done gross misconduct, you have nothing to lose.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 7:03 am

Unless, of course, you are a foreigner. If that is the case, according to the IRAS, the employer, once an employee gives notice, is required by law to withhold all salaries and other monies due to the employer until such time as Tax Clearance had been filed by the employer (IR-21) and given by the IRAS. The reason for this is that IRAS doesn't care if you, as a foreigner, does a runner or not, because by requiring the employer to withhold ALL salaries due to the employee from the date of the notice, IRAS is assured of receiving it's taxes as the employer must pay your income taxes and then deduct said taxes from final salaries due to the employee.

However, that is the law. It is not necessarily what has transpired. I'm not sure why you are writing at this time as even now, MOM says you must be paid within 7 days of the end of the pay period. If you are paid monthly, then it's only been 4 days since the end of the month. I think you might be jumping the gun a wee bit.

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Re: Unpaid Salary

Postby Nath21 » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 8:58 am

allmintpower wrote:Dear all,
my 1st post and sad to say need to ask any of you ever encountered the above mentioned issue or any HR experts who can help to clear my doubts? Have tried to surf the Ministry of Manpower website to see the rights of employees but think would like to have more opinions before deciding what my next step should be.

Have tendered my resignation and now serving the last month of my notice (2 months), have also requested to offset my leave so that I can shorten my notice period but still pending with reasons from them saying that they are in the midst of finding new person to take over my post but didn’t see them interviewing people anymore after a few times.

The director of the current small company is an Ang Moh, also got another branch in his native country. Right now, the company is facing deep debts from suppliers, office rental etc and also chased by them with legal letters for payment.

We are supposed to be paid for our salary on the last day of the month which is stated in our employment letter. However, up till now, only afew of my colleagues (only those who still have usage to the director) have already got their July salaries while the rest of my other colleagues including me have not got our salaries for the month of July.

The director does not have any individual meeting with those unpaid staff to tell us personally why we are not paid yet, still treating as if nothing has happened with a negative EQ attitude. My manager told me this morning (which the director is supposed to be the one telling me this) saying that the reason why I’m not paid yet is not because I have tendered my resignation, those unpaid staff will be paid once the big order has come in from one overseas big customer but all are just verbal agreement, no pre-payment in yet from them. At the moment, there are a lot of still a lot of games going on from the so called overseas big customer and their reseller. After hearing all this bullshit, I shoot back to the manager does it mean we don’t need to get our salaries If no pre-payment coming from the so called big customer? Somemore, the manager told me she also has not gotten her July salary yet which I just treated it as bullshit.

Should I go to MOM to report this unpaid salary after 7 days (I suppose the 7 days inclusive of weekends as stated in MOM website?) from the day of the supposed salary date in July 2010? Anyway, the director has already been reported a few times before by unfairly treated ex-staff from what I know of. I’m in a dilemma now as I’m serving my notice period, really don’t want to leave so unhappily although I’m dragging my feet to work everyday and counting down.

Any advice? Thanks in advance….


If they owe you more than $10k and are over 3 weeks late I can tell you how to play hard ball with this company. If not I would suggest waiting a little as it hasnt been long (although they have thrown you the usual excuse).

If they meet the criteria above there is a very simple petition you can make to the court "Petition to the court for winding up of the comamy". (very simple form to fill out). Believe me when they see this or a letter telling them of your intentions to do this they usually pay straight away. If they are trading while insolvent then the directors loose their corporate protection and become perosnally liable for company debts anf may face criminal proceedings also.

I have done this before where I told them what I was going to do to get them to pay me and they said no so I filed the petition and then they paid. Because that got air time with the CEO and Non Executive directors and the Manager (COO) got fired over the incident. I have no sympathy for comapnies that use workers entitlements (superannuation / pensions or salaries) as cashflow for the company because it means if they are either trading insolvently or leveraging of the workers when they dont need to.

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Postby allmintpower » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:43 pm

Dear all,
thanks for the advice, imagine the director still can take taxis from home to work and vice versa everyday, staying in landed property with his young Vietnamese wife (old cow eating tender grass) and acting so proud as if nothing has happened.

I understand I might be over-reacted at the moment as the 7 day grace period has not yet reached but too many things have happened within the small company (can just ask people to leave with their make-up reasons, accuse people of stealing etc) that makes me certain that they won't pay us unless the pre-payment from the big order comes in. Moreover, use company's money to pay for his wife's air tickets (business class somemore) whenever he goes on business trips.

Sorry for my venting but really don't know where to describe my frustration although I know the world is unfair...

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Postby allmintpower » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:56 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Unless, of course, you are a foreigner. If that is the case, according to the IRAS, the employer, once an employee gives notice, is required by law to withhold all salaries and other monies due to the employer until such time as Tax Clearance had been filed by the employer (IR-21) and given by the IRAS. The reason for this is that IRAS doesn't care if you, as a foreigner, does a runner or not, because by requiring the employer to withhold ALL salaries due to the employee from the date of the notice, IRAS is assured of receiving it's taxes as the employer must pay your income taxes and then deduct said taxes from final salaries due to the employee.

However, that is the law. It is not necessarily what has transpired. I'm not sure why you are writing at this time as even now, MOM says you must be paid within 7 days of the end of the pay period. If you are paid monthly, then it's only been 4 days since the end of the month. I think you might be jumping the gun a wee bit.


I'm a Singaporean...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 1:59 pm

allmintpower wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Unless, of course, you are a foreigner. If that is the case, according to the IRAS, the employer, once an employee gives notice, is required by law to withhold all salaries and other monies due to the employer until such time as Tax Clearance had been filed by the employer (IR-21) and given by the IRAS. The reason for this is that IRAS doesn't care if you, as a foreigner, does a runner or not, because by requiring the employer to withhold ALL salaries due to the employee from the date of the notice, IRAS is assured of receiving it's taxes as the employer must pay your income taxes and then deduct said taxes from final salaries due to the employee.

However, that is the law. It is not necessarily what has transpired. I'm not sure why you are writing at this time as even now, MOM says you must be paid within 7 days of the end of the pay period. If you are paid monthly, then it's only been 4 days since the end of the month. I think you might be jumping the gun a wee bit.


I'm a Singaporean...


In that case, I would wait until 7 days have passed, and, as you mentioned in your first post, I think a trip to MOM might be in order (provided which, you are making less than $2000/month. If you are, then you are covered under the Employment Act and MOM will defo get involved. If you are making more than $2/K/mo then I'm afraid you might have to use one of the other methods mentioned (like the $10/K winding up procedure). But, obviously, if you do that, you job will be gone but, if it's that bad, maybe it's a good thing for you to get out while you can.

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Postby therat » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 2:03 pm

wait for 7 days for your salary.
After which, you can approach MOM.
But take note, MOM only act on behalf for those under employment act who is less than $1.6K.

For those above $1.6k, MOM only can give advice.
If you want to pursue, you need to engage lawyer.

Next is the CPF contribution.
Company need to make CPF payment within 14 days grace period.
After which, you need to approach CPF for late CPF payment or no CPF pay.

http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/hybrid/Themes/ ... SourceId=0

You can refer to the above CPF link for CPF late payment/no pay procure.

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Postby allmintpower » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 2:15 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
allmintpower wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Unless, of course, you are a foreigner. If that is the case, according to the IRAS, the employer, once an employee gives notice, is required by law to withhold all salaries and other monies due to the employer until such time as Tax Clearance had been filed by the employer (IR-21) and given by the IRAS. The reason for this is that IRAS doesn't care if you, as a foreigner, does a runner or not, because by requiring the employer to withhold ALL salaries due to the employee from the date of the notice, IRAS is assured of receiving it's taxes as the employer must pay your income taxes and then deduct said taxes from final salaries due to the employee.

However, that is the law. It is not necessarily what has transpired. I'm not sure why you are writing at this time as even now, MOM says you must be paid within 7 days of the end of the pay period. If you are paid monthly, then it's only been 4 days since the end of the month. I think you might be jumping the gun a wee bit.


I'm a Singaporean...


In that case, I would wait until 7 days have passed, and, as you mentioned in your first post, I think a trip to MOM might be in order (provided which, you are making less than $2000/month. If you are, then you are covered under the Employment Act and MOM will defo get involved. If you are making more than $2/K/mo then I'm afraid you might have to use one of the other methods mentioned (like the $10/K winding up procedure). But, obviously, if you do that, you job will be gone but, if it's that bad, maybe it's a good thing for you to get out while you can.


I already tendered my registration in June, now serving the last month of my 2 month notice and is earning more than S$2k / month...I feel frustrated is that this director treats us as though that he is far far more superior than us just because he's an Ang Moh and can do anything that he likes without any explanation as though he's the king...When we still got usage to him, he will treat us with some respect else he can just ask you to leave anytime as he likes...

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Postby allmintpower » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 2:19 pm

therat wrote:wait for 7 days for your salary.
After which, you can approach MOM.
But take note, MOM only act on behalf for those under employment act who is less than $1.6K.

For those above $1.6k, MOM only can give advice.
If you want to pursue, you need to engage lawyer.

Next is the CPF contribution.
Company need to make CPF payment within 14 days grace period.
After which, you need to approach CPF for late CPF payment or no CPF pay.

http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/hybrid/Themes/ ... SourceId=0

You can refer to the above CPF link for CPF late payment/no pay procure.


Thanks for the link...I'm earning more than S$2k/month and a few of my colleagues also in the same situation as me now and 4 of the others have already been paid for their salaries...Those who have been paid are those who still have usage to the director...

Can ask regarding the 14 days grace period for CPF contribution, I assume is from the day when our salaries are supposed to be paid as stated in the employment letter?

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Postby therat » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 2:22 pm

allmintpower wrote:I already tendered my registration in June, now serving the last month of my 2 month notice and is earning more than S$2k / month...I feel frustrated is that this director treats us as though that he is far far more superior than us just because he's an Ang Moh and can do anything that he likes without any explanation as though he's the king...When we still got usage to him, he will treat us with some respect else he can just ask you to leave anytime as he likes...


treat it as part of lesson.
Once you get thru' it, you will be a better man.

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Postby therat » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 2:25 pm

allmintpower wrote:
therat wrote:Thanks for the link...I'm earning more than S$2k/month and a few of my colleagues also in the same situation as me now and 4 of the others have already been paid for their salaries...Those who have been paid are those who still have usage to the director...

Can ask regarding the 14 days grace period for CPF contribution, I assume is from the day when our salaries are supposed to be paid as stated in the employment letter?


Better ask directly from CPF.
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Postby Saint » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 2:36 pm

allmintpower wrote:I already tendered my registration in June, now serving the last month of my 2 month notice and is earning more than S$2k / month...I feel frustrated is that this director treats us as though that he is far far more superior than us just because he's an Ang Moh and can do anything that he likes without any explanation as though he's the king...When we still got usage to him, he will treat us with some respect else he can just ask you to leave anytime as he likes...


While I feel for your plight I wouldn't try and turn this in to an Ang Moh bashing thread. There have been many cases recently of locally run companies not paying their staff. Some instances have been posted on this forum. Whether the owner is local or an Ang Moh makes no difference, they are in the wrong. Some of the good advice you are getting is from Ang Mohs! :cool:

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Postby allmintpower » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 3:17 pm

Saint wrote:
allmintpower wrote:I already tendered my registration in June, now serving the last month of my 2 month notice and is earning more than S$2k / month...I feel frustrated is that this director treats us as though that he is far far more superior than us just because he's an Ang Moh and can do anything that he likes without any explanation as though he's the king...When we still got usage to him, he will treat us with some respect else he can just ask you to leave anytime as he likes...


While I feel for your plight I wouldn't try and turn this in to an Ang Moh bashing thread. There have been many cases recently of locally run companies not paying their staff. Some instances have been posted on this forum. Whether the owner is local or an Ang Moh makes no difference, they are in the wrong. Some of the good advice you are getting is from Ang Mohs! :cool:


I need to clarify I'm only bashing on this particular Ang Moh director with a zero EQ who I have come across and experienced his bad look down on people attitudes...There will be a black sheep anywhere spoiling the whole market...

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 04 Aug 2010 4:24 pm

allmintpower wrote:I need to clarify I'm only bashing on this particular Ang Moh director with a zero EQ who I have come across and experienced his bad look down on people attitudes...There will be a black sheep anywhere spoiling the whole market...


My friend, just a piece of advise, you posted to this forum in singaporeexpat. Most of us are either "Ang Moh" or Half "Ang Moh" or Third Part "Ang Moh" or diluted one like me.Some are not even one but are Asian.
Many of us run business in SG too. Not all of us are crooks.
So.....if you wish to get advise please do not categorize the party involved by race or color or even religion.It will spark a fire or a storm where the implication is far worse.
The company director maybe at fault. It is up to you to proof otherwise. Take all the necessary advise here and do it if you are so p**s off with the company director. Good Luck
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