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Solar Power plants in HDB appartments

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skpsiva
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Solar Power plants in HDB appartments

Postby skpsiva » Tue, 13 Jul 2010 6:57 pm

Guys, HDB has announce that they are going to install more solar power plates in comming months, I thing the contract already awarded a leading company, well how is the impact on the utility bills? any opinion on this....

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durain
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Postby durain » Tue, 13 Jul 2010 7:35 pm

could go up (initial cost) or down (ROI).

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Postby beppi » Wed, 14 Jul 2010 5:29 pm

Solar-generated electricity still costs much more than other sources, thus the utility cost is sure to go up. However, in many countries the government subsidizes alternative energy sources, thus the bill increase is (partially) covered. Not sure what Singapore is doing - maybe somebody else knows it and can post?

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Postby durain » Wed, 14 Jul 2010 6:10 pm

initial cost will always be high but the ROI will kick in after a good few years.

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Postby beppi » Wed, 14 Jul 2010 6:42 pm

Durain is wrong:
If there are no (government or other) subsidies, a solar power plant that sells its electricity to the grid at end-user prices or below will never recover its initial investment and give a positive return.
Those are the numbers right now - things are expected to be different in a number of years, when something called "grid parity" is reached - i.e. solar electricity generation costs the same or less than other sources.
Until then, subsidies will have to pick up the difference. That, and not the prevalence of sunshine, explains the huge difference in solar market size from country to country!

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Postby durain » Wed, 14 Jul 2010 7:11 pm

there's no right or wrong here. this is not a pub quiz. :P

let's put it this way... if i have solar or wind powered, i will have the air-cond on 24/7. roast pork/duck/goose everyday, heated swimming pool, etc. i will defo have my ROI back. :D

btw, the OP is talking about HDB, so it' singapore gov (not sure if they do their own subsidies). HDB will probably use up the electricity for lightning up common areas, powering the lifts, etc, etc, and more than lightly will use it all up without much returning it back to the grid for resale.

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Postby beppi » Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:30 pm

> let's put it this way... if i have solar or wind powered, i will have the
> air-cond on 24/7. roast pork/duck/goose everyday, heated swimming
> pool, etc. i will defo have my ROI back.
Yes, but by taking the electricity from the grid you'd have the same cheaper ...
Edit: Wind power is already cheaper than other sources in some parts of the world (not Singapore - wind is too slow and not constant here).

> HDB will probably use up the electricity for lightning up common areas,
> powering the lifts, etc, etc, and more than lightly will use it all up without
> much returning it back to the grid for resale.
I doubt that very much, because lighting is required by night, when the solar cells give no power, and the lift requires sudden strong bursts of high power, whereas solar cells give constant low current. Unless HDB invests in (very expensive) huge battery systems, this would not work. Most probably they'll feed the electricity into the grid to power other people's aircon (which run when power from sunlight is strongest).
By the way, this is what most people with solar power stations in other countries do: Nobody uses generated solar power by themselves, it's almost always fed into the grid!

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 15 Jul 2010 6:39 am

beppi wrote:> let's put it this way... if i have solar or wind powered, i will have the
> air-cond on 24/7. roast pork/duck/goose everyday, heated swimming
> pool, etc. i will defo have my ROI back.
Yes, but by taking the electricity from the grid you'd have the same cheaper ...


Depends on application and the approach. Heating your swimming pool or water for the household use rather does not require expensive solar cells. ROI will be within hours if I paint some of the swimming pool's water duct in black :)

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 15 Jul 2010 8:34 am

I throw my 2 cents in this discussion.
Read this link on two countries where I found although the Gahmen does not provide subsidies on this issue. The cost of renewable energy which include solar is recoverable.
What Durain said is true, if the initial setup , is not subsidise the cost can be high. But the ROI which is usually in 10 years will be recovered.
However what Beppi said there are merits in it but to convert solar to grid commercially, you need a power station to do that which is normally will be undertaken by State Enterprise or GIC or Private Energy Company. The last group will be mad to invest if there is no ROI in it.
In SG when Conoco Philip venture into gas and power supply off Tuas, the Gahmen already has some stake in it.
What I found out is, in NZ and OZ, the man on the street basically can fix up solar panel on their roof with minimal cost and the ROI is about 3 to 5 yrs for household usage. Hence one does not even need to past the power grid to save electricit bill.
So it is all about supply and demand, I guess

http://www.eeca.govt.nz/efficient-and-r ... ble-energy

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/what-yo ... nergy.aspx :)
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

skpsiva
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Postby skpsiva » Thu, 15 Jul 2010 9:30 pm

Nice to read usefull information with some fun.......

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Postby ksl » Sat, 17 Jul 2010 4:02 pm

Here is some interesting insight to solar in Denmark worth reading.

http://www.solenergi.dk/english/solar_thermal.asp

Like any other technical break through one must also, think of the lifespan of the present technology, before a new and more efficient panel is introduced.

Though with aircon being expensive it may well be worth the investment in home. I was discussing solar in the last hour, with a Singaporean who is looking into it, he said the subsidy is around 4800$, for his household and he hasn't worked out if the investment is worth it, because he's worried about the solar panels of today being outdated within a short period of time, as research and development progresses. So its a matter of when is it the right time to invest.

I guess that will depend on the individuals wants and needs, as electricity is so expensive for air con use. So do we all go down to McDonalds everyday to cool off, or invest in solar panels, I think it will be worth investing in solar panels which will also increase the house value too, so quite possibly the return on investment maybe shorter than expected for the person that initiates the project.

For myself I don't care about it being an investment, when it comes to home comfort, we have it to pay or do without, I'd rather pay the investment and have home comfort, than a moaning wife complaining of the aircon electricity bill.

Though I am western and the wife is Asian, so we have different tolerance of weather conditions. Now I am wondering if my Asian wife would be comfortable in in 16 to 18 c which i am used to, I think not so I have to pay the heating bill monthly in advance in Denmark to keep guests from complaining of the cold apartment, being an outside type of guy, i am comfortable in a T shirt in 14C while the rest of the population are dressed up for winter I always looked forward to my juicy electricity rebates for using less energy. But its always easier to keep warm than it is to keep cool :) So I guess I will be looking at solar energy more closely for a better quality of life, or I could just get a new wife :lol: Though i wouldn't have so much money as i have today, so there are pro's and cons too!

Crikey the divorce bill, now my wife would find that very painful, so I guess she may just let me turn on the aircon, if i remind her :lol:

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Postby carteki » Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:43 pm

ksl wrote:Like any other technical break through one must also, think of the lifespan of the present technology, before a new and more efficient panel is introduced.


Newer technology doesn't mean that your current piece of equipment fails to do its job. Unfortunately a great deal of salesmen would be out of a job if people actually realised this little fact!

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Postby waz » Sat, 24 Jul 2010 7:29 am

It will be costly and harder to maintain with Singapore sort of climate.

Solar panel is generally a step in right direction. However, with Singapore population density, especially HDB blocks, I doubt it will be bring the utility price down because the power usage for a single block of HDB is just enormous - aircons, dryer etc.

HDB will safe its electricity bill in the long run but the investment to install the solar panels and inverters will be a costly affair.

Personally, I think someone up there in HDB comes up with this idea to showcase his brilliant mind and later, to tell the world about its green awareness in this suburban jungle. You can basically read the script.
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