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Would you support an option to allow direct applications for Singapore citizenship for one who stayed here for 2 years regardless of type of VISA and rest all conditions same?

Poll ended at Wed, 06 Jul 2011 10:16 pm

Yes, I support it.
3
43%
No way! The rules should stay the way they are.
4
57%
 
Total votes: 7

nkv
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Singapore wants citizens while rejecting PR applications!

Post by nkv » Tue, 06 Jul 2010 10:16 pm

Wondering about the news I hear that Singapore now wants to encourage for citizenship applications while making PR rules tough!

I guess the rule should also be changed to allow an interested & elligible foreigner to apply for citizenship directly than having a requirement being a PR for at least 2 years. I would be willing to apply for citizenship directly than applying for PR and wait for 2-6 years. Why can't this be done?

How would anyone be able to apply for citizenship when her/his PR application is rejected?

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Re: Singapore wants citizens while rejecting PR applications

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:46 pm

nkv wrote:Wondering about the news I hear that Singapore now wants to encourage for citizenship applications while making PR rules tough!

I guess the rule should also be changed to allow an interested & elligible foreigner to apply for citizenship directly than having a requirement being a PR for at least 2 years. I would be willing to apply for citizenship directly than applying for PR and wait for 2-6 years. Why can't this be done?

How would anyone be able to apply for citizenship when her/his PR application is rejected?
If they feel you cannot or won't add to the economy of Singapore as as PR, why should they gamble on giving you Citizenship and possibly end up becoming a ward of the State? Frankly, I think they are doing it the right way, finally. Too many PR's are nothing but abusers who are not the least bit interested in adding to the economy here, but only looking for an unlimited VISA so they don't have to leave when a Singaporean takes their job. If you cannot pull your own weight long enough as a PR, then I don't see any positive rational of allowing direct applications.

I say keep it the way it is or make it even harder to get PR and make the wait longer to apply for citizenship as well.

But that's only my opinion. :wink:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

nkv
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Re: Singapore wants citizens while rejecting PR applications

Post by nkv » Wed, 07 Jul 2010 8:30 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote: If you cannot pull your own weight long enough as a PR, then I don't see any positive rational of allowing direct applications.

I say keep it the way it is or make it even harder to get PR and make the wait longer to apply for citizenship as well.
Well, I guess I was not talking about granting Citizenship freely to anyone who applies! The info, data, criteria remains intact. Govt. can still decide the same way if a person stays here at Singapore for 2-6 years regardless if he stays as PR or any other work-permit.

Do you see any reason why can't Govt decide for any person staying here for 2-6 years in anyway and contributing to economy & staying as responsible individual socially? Again all conditions / criteria remains INTACT with only change PR status not being mandatory to apply for Citizenship.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 07 Jul 2010 8:59 am

Again, with the same criteria staying intact, there are more examples of abusers than real "stayers". Therefore, the criteria is only a rough guideline and it's only time that tends to show "staying" power. So, if time is the ultimate flaw, make 'em wait a bit longer to show their true colours is the way I see it. Then, maybe, they will stop reducing the benefits for PR's. Additionally, if most PR's show up as abusers, then, using the same current guidelines, I would think it would make more sense to have a longer or two stage method to obtaining Citizenship. This is, of course, not counting maybe the heavy-duty investor who brings in a multi-million dollar investment that will generate something for the economy here that will generate tax revenue and employment of Singaporeans. (not just buying an expensive property).

Having the PR as a stage in the middle makes good sense. Even the CPF contribution rates are graduated over three years to ease the person into the CPF habit. Don't forget, leaving 'expat' contracts and going onto local contracts sans housing, transport, schooling allowances and possibly a cut in salary as well, takes a bit of adjustment for the high-flying expat to bite off in one go.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by nkv » Wed, 07 Jul 2010 9:16 am

I would trust the person's intention to stay long term as he would be giving up his original citizenship by taking Singaporean Citizenship rather than PR. This is big decision for any foreigner and only real stayer would be taking this one.

Leave adjusting to way of life, CPF or any other factors to the person taking the Citizenship.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 07 Jul 2010 9:49 am

Even Singaporeans who immigrate, tend to keep their citizenship instead of renouncing. (They just don't talk about it). Same goes for a lot of people who have taken up Singapore Citizenship or reached majority and were supposed to renounce one of them. Depends, obviously, on which country you are originally from as to whether or not you can do it, but a lot do.

I am more than willing to agree to disagree about this. Fortunately, though, they have the current policy in place and it work pretty well. Hopefully it will stay that way. :wink:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by x9200 » Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:04 am

nkv wrote:I would trust the person's intention to stay long term as he would be giving up his original citizenship by taking Singaporean Citizenship rather than PR.

This is not only about long term stay but your commitment and how do you contribute to the economy and other aspects of the living. It is relatively easy to get rid of a PR. Not so easy for the citizen. On top of this PR provides excellent platform to observe the potential candidates how and what they are doing with the additional privileges granted. Yet another thing is that there is pretty large group of people well contributing to the Singapore economy etc. who for some reasons can not or do not want to undertake the SC. Without PR they would probably leave the country after some time just for social and job stability reasons. I am pretty sure SG ghament is well aware of it.

This is big decision for any foreigner and only real stayer would be taking this one.

Unfortunately often it's not and this is a part of the problem.

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Post by carteki » Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:37 am

Don't forget, leaving 'expat' contracts and going onto local contracts sans housing, transport, schooling allowances and possibly a cut in salary as well, takes a bit of adjustment for the high-flying expat to bite off in one go.
What expat contract? I'm assuming that the average PR was not here on one and even most of the ang moh's are here on local packages nowdays.
I would trust the person's intention to stay long term as he would be giving up his original citizenship by taking Singaporean Citizenship rather than PR. This is big decision for any foreigner and only real stayer would be taking this one.
Interesting topic this one and it would be interesting to see which nationalities after 10 years in SG are a) Citizens or b) PR's. You will probably find that the latter are from US, UK, Europe or other countries with "easy passports" to travel on and they're not really closing the door to their previous abode (so they have a bolt hole if things go pear-shaped here, their country will evacuate them despite their not having contributed to their own country's economy etc). I suspect that the "citizens" were from countries where their passports were a liability and things were more likely to go pear-shaped at home than here - this is my own supposition and not based on any official facts what-so-ever.
Too many PR's are nothing but abusers who are not the least bit interested in adding to the economy here, but only looking for an unlimited VISA so they don't have to leave when a Singaporean takes their job.
I think that part of the backlash against PRs is who was getting PR - we've seen on the forum people applying for PR who earn less than the average SGn, rather than giving out PR in general.

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What the government want may not be Singaporean's choice

Post by thismyvoice » Mon, 12 Jul 2010 9:10 pm

Frankly, a very common complaint from Singaporean nowadays has been the excessive influx of foreigners (locals included). The current infrastructure such as housing and transport is under strain and it is causing some tension.

It takes time for people from other countries to integrate, thus I feel that citizenship should be given slowly and only to the truly deserving. The problem with sudden huge influxes is that instead of integrating to the society, new immigrants form their own community and citizens feel threatened.

Take it 1 step at a time. My opinion is that rules for citizenship should be further tightened not loosened. If you cannot even get a PR in Singapore, then citizenship is not for you. Just because you are a graduate from a top 80 university in your country does not mean that Singapore needs you. If anything, the bar should be set higher.

You mention giving up citizenship. I know of married couples whose wife is a new Singaporean citizen while husband remains a PR. In this way, they get the best of both worlds. Is giving up citizenship that difficult in this case?

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