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EP renewal rejected

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:33 am

Good On you , pilotmoon. This is what I have been trying to tell many here. If you go to see ICA, MOM or any agencies here, make sure you are prepared. Your boss and your HR did just that. Full Battle Gear , ready for war so to speak . Hence MOM officer will definitely realise that you are important to the company operations
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Postby observer » Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:33 pm

Congratulations, pilotmoon. Just out of curiosity, how many years is it renewed for?
And a general question, why doesn't your company (or any company for that matter) just apply for 2 years or more to avoid all this?
It's common sense - if you try to come in before I go out, I can't go out. And you can't come in! Lose-lose!

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Postby Saint » Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:57 pm

Now apply for PEP?

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Postby pilotmoon » Fri, 09 Jul 2010 1:06 pm

This time my ep is for 2 years, P2. Previously it is one year each renewal. Why the company just applied for 1 year time before, I dont know. It does seem silly to do so, since it can be cancelled anytime anyway.
When you think about it, it seems like there is no real reason for the rejection other than my company needs to justify retaining me. The HR is now considering to reapply or appeal a few of those EP applications that got rejected recently, although I believe they will choose those they feel are the more "important" positions that can be justified easier.
go brazil!

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Postby pilotmoon » Fri, 09 Jul 2010 1:10 pm

Saint wrote:Now apply for PEP?


Yes, I'll apply for PEP probably in a month or two. I dont want to push my luck so soon :wink:
go brazil!

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Postby MSS_14 » Sat, 31 Jul 2010 5:05 pm

Hi Experts,

I have found this forum very useful. I am in a big trouble and I need your suggestion and advice.

I am here in Singapore on EP (P1 category) for two years. recently My EP renewal has got rejected. They have given reason "I am not Eligible for EP" and thats it. No further explaination

My Company is a big giant international firm and have not got even a single rejection of EP till date. They are operating in Singapore for more than a decade and have many foreigner employees but mine one is the first ever case of rejection of renewal.

I am Pakistani from Nationality. I have done Graduation degree (4 years) in IT and Masters Degree (2 years) in Engineering Management. Both my degrees I have done from Pakistan. My Masters is by very well reputable University but my Graduation is from a private University. But both the Universities are Chartered and recognized univesities in Pakistan. Also both my degrees, I have done in Distance Learning Program. But specially my Masters is very well reputable program and many students of the university have got scholarships for further study in US and UK.

Now come to experience. I have 10 years of experience out of which 7 years experience is very relevant to my current job. But important point is that my Master Degree was awarded to me in 2008 and my experience starts from 1999. FYI. My Graduation degree was awarded to me in year 2005. (I have done all my study along with the job because of financial reasons)

Now my current position in Company is very strong. I have got lot of appreciation for my last two years work. My company is in very strong favor of my case. They have given me a very good letter of recommendation and ready to go for appeal. But problem is that my EP will expire on 11th of August means I don't have much time to wait for appeal. Second thing is that MOM has said to my RMS department that chances of EP extension are very low as they are not considering my application as they say "I am not eligible"

My Company suggests me that they can cancel my EP on 10th August so that I will get one month visa to stay in Singapore. Also they can file the appeal outcome of which is expected in 3 weeks. My fear is that MOM may reject the appeal as well. Thus I was thinking to visit MOM first to inquire about the reason. Earlier I was thinking to take my HR and Boss along but now my thinking is that I should go alone first. And later try with my Boss and HR.

Please suggest what could be the reason of saying that I am not eligible for EP?
Also suggest that shall I go directly to MOM before appeal ? Is that Okay?
Will I be able to send my Boss and HR later even if I have visited alone earlier ? or is there like only one chance to visit them?
Is there any way I can get EP extension?

I am really looking forward for your help and advice.

Thanks n Regards,

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 31 Jul 2010 6:18 pm

My first question would be "How much is your BASIC salary? If you BASIC is less than 7K then that would be a primary reason. Don't forget, the gahmen are" trying" to find ways to reduce the foreign worker burden so any technicality will do if that's the case.

The second question would be "are your degrees real or forgeries (I've had degree holders lie to me "straight on my face" (to use the local vernacular) and even sign & thumbprint a statement to that effect, so please do not get offended.

If you go first by yourself, you don't stand a ghost of a chance. You need to go with your HR/Boss combination straight off. Getting one interview shouldn't be a problem, getting a second after being told to stuff it on the first, well, you are just gonna p*ss 'em off that way. Go for broke or not at all.

Again, a well reputed university in Pakistan is not necessarily given the same level of repute in the rest of the world, regardless of where they may subsequently go to school. And Singapore marches to it's own drummer as you should well know.

sms

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Postby MSS_14 » Sat, 31 Jul 2010 7:34 pm

Dear SMS

Thanks for your reply!

My Annual base salary is $96,8XX per year evenly distributed over 13 months. This means its $7,4XX per month. Also I get a bonus which makes it $8,0XX per month. This is written in my contract and also I have Pay Slips specifying the same. But I am not sure what is their source of finding my salary information?

I am telling you with full honesty my degrees are not fake. I have study for the full period and really hard to get them. I have even got them stamped from HEC (Higher Education Commission of Pakistan) for the proof that they are valid and issued from a Chartered University of Pakistan. (Though that stamp is on back of the degrees and transcripts and thus MOM might not have seen it as they have the scanned copies from front side only)
I also have a reference of HEC website (I have taken a print out) which specifies list of Chartered and recognized Universities of Pakistan which includes the names of my Universities.
MOM Website says
"MOM recognises qualifications from institutions that are of comparable and equivalent standards to those in the sample list "
My Masters Degree University is comparable to one of the sample in their list as its sister University of it. I am not sure whether they look at highest degree only or all the degrees for recognition?


I understand your point regarding taking the Boss/HR along. Can I clarify will that be fine if I take boss only and not the HR? as my HR is on leaves for next week and I will have to wait for her to come back if its required.

I agree with your point regarding Pakistan degree/ University reputation. But my question is that if they are evaluating me for P1 then according to MOM website eligibility critiera for P1 is only salary >7000 . For P2 its salary>3500 + possesses recognized qualification.
And even for recognize qualification their website says
"Similarly, applicants who do not possess a recognised qualification may not necessarily be rejected for Employment Pass, if he possesses other compensating factors"
I have not mentioned earlier that I am SAP certified and experienced (5 yrs) which is in high demand in Singapore. So I assume that could my compensating factor.

I have heard from my RMS/HR team that they submitted my application on 19 July and they returned with this reason on 23 with this reason. Then they tried again online but received back with the same reason. It seems that they are not sending my documents to Vetting agency for verification but returning from themselves only. I don't understand why?

For your information, I also have recently got my PR rejected. I applied it with my family after my 1 year stay in Singapore. They took 11 months (may be because quota 2009 was over) and rejected it withoug specifying any reason.

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Postby singaporeflyer » Sat, 31 Jul 2010 8:31 pm

MSS_14 wrote:Dear SMS
Then they tried again online but received back with the same reason. It seems that they are not sending my documents to Vetting agency for verification but returning from themselves only. I don't understand why?


Does this mean the first renewal application was done manually? I am not sure about your case. But MOM Suggests that manual renewal applications must be done before 5 weeks of the expiry date of the pass

It will take at least five weeks to process a manual application.


Secondly if you are on a P1 pass for 2 years then why did you not apply for a PEP after 6 months of stay in Singapore? This has no relation to your rejection though.

You will be tempted to apply now. But the result will mostly be the same as your EP as you have not applied for it before

MSS_14 wrote:I understand your point regarding taking the Boss/HR along. Can I clarify will that be fine if I take boss only and not the HR? as my HR is on leaves for next week and I will have to wait for her to come back if its required.


If he is the head of the company then he can go to the MOM and speak to a senior officer there and make an appeal showing documents and proofs. But he must be able to justify and share facts why he wants to retain you rather than employing a foreign talent, what is the ratio of locals:foreigners in your company? what is your contribution in your project and so on.

But am not able to say clearly as they have stated "You are not eligible for EP".

Good Luck !

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Postby MSS_14 » Sat, 31 Jul 2010 8:53 pm

Hi Singaporeflyer,

Thanks for your reply!

The first application was also online. sorry i missed to specify it.

I didn't knew about PEP earlier - my mistake , i really regret now :(

My Boss is not head of company but is Senior Manager here (its quite senior position in our company).
I am going along with him with all documents and proofs to explain where required.. hope that should be okay?
I will further let him know your points so that he make himself well prepared for it as well. Thanks for the information.

Really I am very surprised because why they have raised point of eligibility? Can I check with you what is the usual source of information for MOM as when my company applied for renewal they didn't asked me any information but just the Fin and passport numbers, Name of Highest degree and University, Total and Relevant experience in an email (no documents) I thought its because they already have my earlier submitted documents.

Does any one know of any other case of renewal rejection with this reason "Not eligible for EP"?

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Postby singaporeflyer » Sat, 31 Jul 2010 9:21 pm

MSS_14 wrote:Hi Singaporeflyer,

Thanks for your reply!

The first application was also online. sorry i missed to specify it.

I didn't knew about PEP earlier - my mistake , i really regret now :(

My Boss is not head of company but is Senior Manager here (its quite senior position in our company).
I am going along with him with all documents and proofs to explain where required.. hope that should be okay?
I will further let him know your points so that he make himself well prepared for it as well. Thanks for the information.

Really I am very surprised because why they have raised point of eligibility? Can I check with you what is the usual source of information for MOM as when my company applied for renewal they didn't asked me any information but just the Fin and passport numbers, Name of Highest degree and University, Total and Relevant experience in an email (no documents) I thought its because they already have my earlier submitted documents.

Does any one know of any other case of renewal rejection with this reason "Not eligible for EP"?



Can you double check if your form was submitted without any mistakes or Blanks?

Secondly, it would have been beneficial if there was some increase in roles and responsibilities assigned to you.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:24 pm

Okay. Your salary is okay for P1 and you are right about the academics for P1 but as you don't know nor do I as to the actual reason, I am fishing for additional data. You have now provided further data that I didn't have initially that 'could' have some impact.

If you were rejected for EP renewal it's not the first time. If you have read some of my other replies to others in similar situations, you will have read that I also lost two S pass holders late last year on renewal with exactly the same reason given (no longer qualifies). I went to MOM but was unsuccessful in my attempt to reverse either of them. Or, for that matter, to get an explanation on WHY they were no longer qualified. :(

While I cannot say with any certainty what the reason is, there is a possible likelihood that the MOM now feels that there are sufficient locally trained IT personnel with your type of niche. As far as SAP consultants are concerned, I do know that there are and have been SAP schools here for the past 8 years or so that may or may not work in your favour. You did not mention your specialty here so I am only speculating at the moment.

But, yeah, make a trip with your Sr. Manager along with a good line of defense. Quite often, as soon as an officer looks at the case file, it get reversed on the spot, so keep your chin up!

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Postby esteelauder » Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:15 am

what exactly mean by "its been rejected due to work experiences, salary, skills profile didnt meet any MOM criteria anymore??"
currently helping foreigner to renew the SPASS but unfortunately its has been rejected. i am duno whats the reason, they only provide me w/ that sentence.

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Postby MSS_14 » Sun, 01 Aug 2010 12:01 pm

Dear SMS,

Thanks a lot for your replies. This has given me much confidence.
Now I have few clarifications so that I don’t make any mistake

1. Me and my Manager are going to MOM Office 18 Havelock Road, and will request for Que No on counter to meet MOM Officer. Is this correct? I mean I don’t think we can take appointment. I believe when we’ll ask them that refer us to MOM Officer they will do that and will not refer us to some front desk people (clerks).

2. When we meet the Officer, My Manager will hand him over letter of appeal/recommendation from our company along with all my documents photocopies and will inquire for the reason of rejection. If MOM Officer will tell any reason then we will respond accordingly- Is this approach correct?

3. How much time will we get to speak? Are they usually in hurry or do they give us full chance to speak?

4. Also we plan to go Monday first time in morning – is this good time to go? I mean as compared to afternoon or evening in regard to any pattern of their moods? I just want to make sure that I don’t make any mistake and thus getting you experts advice on everything.

5. I am asking my Manager to prepare himself for following things that he will need to speak and defend.

a. My requirement in Company and why a local resource cannot replace me. What is my specialty due to which he wants to retain me in company. One strong point we have is that my last project was for a Japanese based company and due to me my company has got X Million Dollar project from Japan. And now they are willing to give us more business but they have requested me to be “must have”

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 01 Aug 2010 12:46 pm

[quote="MSS_14"]Dear SMS,

Thanks a lot for your replies. This has given me much confidence.
Now I have few clarifications so that I don’t make any mistake

1. Me and my Manager are going to MOM Office 18 Havelock Road, and will request for Que No on counter to meet MOM Officer. Is this correct? I mean I don’t think we can take appointment. I believe when we’ll ask them that refer us to MOM Officer they will do that and will not refer us to some front desk people (clerks). This is correct. You might want to go through the information counter to explain to the clerk there that you would like to see an officer in an interview room.

2. When we meet the Officer, My Manager will hand him over letter of appeal/recommendation from our company along with all my documents photocopies and will inquire for the reason of rejection. If MOM Officer will tell any reason then we will respond accordingly- Is this approach correct?

This is okay, but again, it depends on the officer so it's something that you need to play by ear. As long as you and your Manager are not fabricating anything, there will not be anything that could be tripped up. Full honesty is the best policy as it might well be that they are testing the waters as well to see how many will leave with the rejection letter (again, only speculation).

3. How much time will we get to speak? Are they usually in hurry or do they give us full chance to speak?

You will be given ample time although I don't know how long (if there is, in fact, a time duration given at all).


4. Also we plan to go Monday first time in morning – is this good time to go? I mean as compared to afternoon or evening in regard to any pattern of their moods? I just want to make sure that I don’t make any mistake and thus getting you experts advice on everything.

Mornings are the best. Late afternoons, the worst as they have already seen countless useless cases already, their patience may well be wearing thin by that time. Late morning also not good as it might interfere with their lunch time.


5. I am asking my Manager to prepare himself for following things that he will need to speak and defend.

a. My requirement in Company and why a local resource cannot replace me. What is my specialty due to which he wants to retain me in company. One strong point we have is that my last project was for a Japanese based company and due to me my company has got X Million Dollar project from Japan. And now they are willing to give us more business but they have requested me to be “must have”


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