EP renewal rejected

Post by **singaporeflyer** » Sun, 01 Aug 2010 1:09 pm

point 5 is the key that might change your case.

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sun, 01 Aug 2010 2:34 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:point 5 is the key that might change your case.

Provided which, it's a) factual and b) doesn't sound like a total bullshit story. e.g., Like reading the average CV from a marketing type from the subcontinent!

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Sun, 01 Aug 2010 4:20 pm

OP

To add weight to all these steps that you have prepared. I will throw my 2 cents here

1. Get your HR to prepare company tax return for the last three to five years

2. Projection of turnover which equates to number of employment on the coming roll

3. FT against local in projection of employment for future project in the pipeline

4.If your boss can come together, it will carry alot of weight

Not a single time when I am involved with the appeal , I have been rejected.

Good luck

MSS_14 · Post by **MSS_14** » Sun, 01 Aug 2010 6:47 pm

Thanks for the inputs Madscientist!

So far all the EP renewals for my company have been approved (we have around 1000 employees in our company out of which approx 50% are foreigners) So I think MOM might already be having the record of turnover, tax return information of our company.

Please suggest do you still think that I should go with the information you mentioned? Then I have to wait for atleast another one day to gather all these documentation. Also will need to wait for my HR to return from leaves (i.e. Thursday). or take some junior staff from her department.

Is there a possibility that we go there tomorrow, if Officer ask us for the information you mentioned we take some time from him for it.

FYI - yes my Manager is going along with me.

Thanks n Regards,

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Sun, 01 Aug 2010 6:59 pm

Go and see them with gun blazing so to speak. This is a one shot for you. Might as well get all the docs prepared before hand. You do not want to caught off guard when they started to ask or pry on your company , do you?
One day late or till Thursday if you can wait when your HR comes in will be best.
I look at it this way, do you REALLY WANT this man to work for you? This will be MOM perspective. Show me THE MONEY and the DOCs !!
I have successfully applied and appealed all my managerial staffs and my workers without a hitch. BUT every time we see MOM we are prepared to the teeth. As a boss, I take pride in taking care of my staff, so maybe your boss or your "big guns" need to do just that.

MSS_14 · Post by **MSS_14** » Tue, 03 Aug 2010 12:39 am

Unfortunately - no success guys.

We went today and they sent me out of room and talked to my manager. My manager told me later that they say they have doubt about my graduation degree.

I want to clarify you before I move on .. I swear on God my degree is 100% genuine and not fake...I have really earned it. Also my degree has been stamped from HEC (Government) that my "degree is valid and is issued form Chartered University of Pakistan". I have this accredition done for all my official transcripts as well.

Does any one know where from and how they verify the degrees? Do they check University? Government Ministry of Education ? or just rough guesses based on guesses such as its distance learning so can be fake

My manager told they also said that they had doubt at the time they issued me the EP first time but they ignored it then they investigated and thats why they now rejecting my EP. I was wondering if they were sure about that degree is fake then why they allowed me to work till now?.. I mean I have heard they de port/ fine or jail if they find some one cheating them.
Again with full honesty my degree is not fake.. but how can I prove it to them now?

I have done Masters from one of their comparable university from their list. Since I am awarded Master degree already proves that graduation was not fake. Any ways my question is why are they checking the graduation and not Masters, which is my highest degree?

Another question is that my company is satisfied (because they had me checked from their vetting agency when they hired me which was clear offcourse) thus they still want to appeal. What are the chances of this appeal (as it will be 3rd appeal)? For earlier two appeals they didn't specified any reason but just that "I am not eligible for EP" My question is do they send some detail reasonsing when they reject 3rd appeal? how much time they take to come.

Thanks n Regards

ksl · Post by **ksl** » Tue, 03 Aug 2010 2:59 am

Looks like a diplomatic problem to me, if i was you, i would be very offended and want to push it to the top ladder! Engage your embassy spokesman, to add a little leverage if possible, they are basically saying they think, suspect or know you are lying. (defamation) which makes them liable! If you can prove you are right go for it!

I would personally challenge them in a court of law, if i was 100% positive of my facts. I'm pretty damned sure the person that rejected you doesn't want to go there unless they have a solid case on you! You need to call there bluff with a solicitors letter! Even gahman would be on your side

I have done Masters from one of their comparable university from their list. Since I am awarded Master degree already proves that graduation was not fake

No it does not prove your graduation was not a fake, it only shows you were able to successfully get a masters degree. If the graduation is a fake, you have cheated your way through to a masters degree, which will also be void. Let us all know what happens, good luck

How would you verify a degree? Think about it! Guessing doesn't really come into it, does it.

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Tue, 03 Aug 2010 5:42 am

KSL. OP . This is what I am afraid of but not wanting to put a damper on OP's hope.
I have posted several of this concern about this if you comes from certain countries where this practise is widespread hence MOM throw a huge blanket on these few countries.
OP , no need to swear on God's name, if you said it is Original , then it is.
I would be incline to do this.
GO back to Pakistan and get the original degree and notorise it at Singapore EMbassy in Pakistan to authenticate it is original.
Ask MOM to give you time to proof the authencity of your qualification.
Get employment lawyer in SG to challenge MOM officer doubt.
You should have brought along your BIG BOSS and bang table at MOM. I did that once when the MOM officer tried to show some colour and I gave them a piece of my mind literally. Not a good look then but what they heck as winner takes all as I see it.
Go to Embassy for recourse, I doubt they can do much but it is worth a shot.
YOu are on your own hence you must do whatever it takes to proof them wrong

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Tue, 03 Aug 2010 7:15 am

MS, have you done it in the past 18 months? Things have changed a bit. MOM is cracking down on "distance learning" degrees big time as it has been found that most are "purchased" and actually do not consist of full curriculums. As I said, they have cracked down on Myanmar distance larning degrees big time. Probably Pakistan as well (although I have no 1st hand knowledge there). MOM is pretty adamant now.

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Tue, 03 Aug 2010 7:45 am

SMS, Nope. I have not done one bit at all. All my FT staff are Malaysian.No problemo,
I look at it this way, if he is here for some time now,surely MOM should have vetted it long time ago. Or maybe just to cut down on the number of FT here by using this guideline due to the noises with the local.
Anyway he is on a one way street to proof otherwise

FaeLLe · Post by **FaeLLe** » Sun, 29 Aug 2010 4:57 pm

I think the OP from Pakistan is an employee from my firm... he uses the internal acroynm's of departments etc the same as that in ours.

For one I think MOM has high regards for the firm and are well acquainted with the firm and its operations. We helped design, create, rollout and operate most of the major IT systems that govt organizations and departments like - MOM, IRAS, ICA etc operate on.

So like SMS and the OP said I believe it must be his educational qualifications that is messing up his chances.

The firm uses several reputed international vetting agencies to perform background verification checks on work experience and educational qualifications.

IMHO the OP MSS_14 should request for certified copies of those reports and checks that have been done and submit those along with a cerified true copy of his degree or the actual degree certificate attested from Embassy of Singapore in Pakistan.

Take these and get an immigration lawyer and dispute the case.
You have an advantage as compared to others....... atleast you have clarity on the reason for rejection....

Just a few thoughts from my end.....

Perhaps they just do not want correspondence degree holders anymore; valid or not.........

amarzub · Post by **amarzub** » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 7:27 pm

Hi Guys,
I guess i also need your advise. Few day back i heard from one of friend that his SP renewal rejected when i google about possible reasons i found this forum and this made me forget my friend problem and makes worry about mine. I went thru all replies as i understood here is my possible coming up problem. And i need your best advise.

I am from Pakistan I used to work in middle east when i got married i moved to Singapore because my wife was working in Singapore and she is also PR.
I am in Singapore past 4 years and working from past 3 years. Now issue is my EP getting expire in Dec 2010. I am full time graduate and a copy of my degree was attested from ministry of foreign affairs Pakistan, ministry of education Pakistan, Embassy of Pakistan from Kuwait, ministry of foreign affairs Kuwait and ministry of education Kuwait. I had done all this few years back when i was working in Kuwait in Semi-Govt. sector and these were their requirements.

I had spoken to HR few days back about this and HR answered its shouldn't be an issue and in worst case they will appeal.
I am IT guy holding EP P2 and recently i got more job roles in my company.

I guess above i explained well, so how bad and good i look for renewal of my EP? and is there any good advise from you guys.

Thanks

Post by **singaporeflyer** » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 7:32 pm

amarzub wrote:Hi Guys,
I guess i also need your advise. Few day back i heard from one of friend that his SP renewal rejected when i google about possible reasons i found this forum and this made me forget my friend problem and makes worry about mine. I went thru all replies as i understood here is my possible coming up problem. And i need your best advise.

I am from Pakistan I used to work in middle east when i got married i moved to Singapore because my wife was working in Singapore and she is also PR.
I am in Singapore past 4 years and working from past 3 years. Now issue is my EP getting expire in Dec 2010. I am full time graduate and a copy of my degree was attested from ministry of foreign affairs Pakistan, ministry of education Pakistan, Embassy of Pakistan from Kuwait, ministry of foreign affairs Kuwait and ministry of education Kuwait. I had done all this few years back when i was working in Kuwait in Semi-Govt. sector and these were their requirements.

I had spoken to HR few days back about this and HR answered its shouldn't be an issue and in worst case they will appeal.
I am IT guy holding EP P2 and recently i got more job roles in my company.

I guess above i explained well, so how bad and good i look for renewal of my EP? and is there any good advise from you guys.

Thanks

If you are working here for the past 3 years in Singapore and also in the IT industry without many job switches, I personally feel, you would have a good chance to get your renewal approved

Also, your wife is a PR here and in the worst case she can apply an LTSVP for you and you can search for a job again. (Assuming that your wife is currently working in Singapore - But not sure as you used 'was working']

amarzub · Post by **amarzub** » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 7:47 pm

Hi singaporeflyer
thanks for reply and giving hopes.

Yap my wife still working in Singapore and this is my 2nd job. I am working in same company past two years. In my company past couple of months few guys got their EP renewed within couple of days with out any issue. I hope things will go smooth with me too.
That will be great help if you add your advise.

FaeLLe · Post by **FaeLLe** » Thu, 02 Sep 2010 9:03 pm

amarzub wrote:Hi singaporeflyer
thanks for reply and giving hopes.
Yap my wife still working in Singapore and this is my 2nd job. I am working in same company past two years. In my company past couple of months few guys got their EP renewed within couple of days with out any issue. I hope things will go smooth with me too.
That will be great help if you add your advise.

Things should be Ok for you; recommend filing for PR as well asap to avoid future issues.

In the meantime try getting ur degree attested locally ( moe and embassy of Pakistan SG ) and in Pakistan by the SG consulate in Lahore.

Good luck and keep us updated.

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