American & Singaporean Dilemma, Dual Nationality

[jpatokal]

Regarding my post of two years ago, I think I misunderstood the original announcement -- the changes affected the way you can apply for Singapore citizenship on basis of descent, nothing else. See the sections tagged "after May 2004" here:

http://app.ica.gov.sg/serv_citizen/citi ... itizen.asp

I also understand, although for obvious reasons this isn't promoted, that ICA no longer requires proof of renouncing previous citizenships as a condition for becoming a Singapore citizen. The ICA pages note that "You will be advised to renounce your foreign citizenship at the respective Embassies/High Commissions in Singapore" and you'll have to swear an oath of "renunciation and allegiance", but it appears to be basically on your conscience whether you keep a previous passport or not. This doesn't make it de jure legal to be a dual citizen, it just makes it de facto possible.

And if you do intend to explore this route, I'd advice engaging the services of a good lawyer, not some random fuzzball on a free forum

[sundaymorningstaple]

Sounds like 'blind eye' syndrome to me!

[leopard]

SMS,

u subscribe to the choice theory as do i. i applaud u for consulting with your son with regards to NS. have u also told him that he's liable for draft by the US army? he'll be receiving a letter from the US dept of Defense when he's around 16 yrs old if current laws do not change.

sometimes i wonder about the wisdom of consulting a 9 yr old about his thoughts on patriotism and nationality. my son is a dual citizen due to my career here in the US. there will come a time when i'll face the same dilema as you.

[sundaymorningstaple]

SMS,

u subscribe to the choice theory as do i. i applaud u for consulting with your son with regards to NS. have u also told him that he's liable for draft by the US army? he'll be receiving a letter from the US dept of Defense when he's around 16 yrs old if current laws do not change.

sometimes i wonder about the wisdom of consulting a 9 yr old about his thoughts on patriotism and nationality. my son is a dual citizen due to my career here in the US. there will come a time when i'll face the same dilema as you.

leopard,

Unless the law has changed since 1975 in the US, I thought the draft has been mothballed. (It is still on the books obviously but nobody has been drafted for years - National Guard Callups don't counts and neither do activated reserves). Registering with the draft board is a technicality that's always been there. NS here is a fact as otherwise nobody would volunter. Giving something back and patriotism are two things that have no direct translation here.

Oh he's already gotten one from the Singapore Gov't but not from the US yet (he'll be 17 next month).

[leopard]

SMS,

my understanding is that the draft law is around, and yes, while it is a "technicality", it will allow the president to invoke a draft. not to say that people won't riot.

if you do not associate NS with patriotism then what do you associate NS with? payment? one pays the SG back with NS because SG provides all the greatness of safety, 1st class edu system, etc?

leopard,

Unless the law has changed since 1975 in the US, I thought the draft has been mothballed. (It is still on the books obviously but nobody has been drafted for years - National Guard Callups don't counts and neither do activated reserves). Registering with the draft board is a technicality that's always been there. NS here is a fact as otherwise nobody would volunter. Giving something back and patriotism are two things that have no direct translation here.

Oh he's already gotten one from the Singapore Gov't but not from the US yet (he'll be 17 next month).

[sundaymorningstaple]

SMS,

my understanding is that the draft law is around, and yes, while it is a "technicality", it will allow the president to invoke a draft. not to say that people won't riot.

if you do not associate NS with patriotism then what do you associate NS with? payment? one pays the SG back with NS because SG provides all the greatness of safety, 1st class edu system, etc?

leopard,
I really don't think that you will have to worry about the draft (I am Ex-Military when the draft WAS a fact of life during the VN conflict). Riots due to the draft? Read some US history from the VN war era. Google Kent State or some of the demonstrations in DC during 68-74. It is really doubtful that it will happen again unless there is an all out declaration of war. GWB is stupid but I really don't think he's THAT stupid. (Although I could be wrong )

Patriotism or payback? Interesting concept don't you think? From a personal POV I think that they have almost the same meaning. If a country has provided you with all the necessities of life and so forth, wouldn't that kinda give you a debt of gratitude to the country. If you feel a kinship or oneness due to the country having been your shelter and provider all your life, wouldn't one normally develop a fondness and desire to protect that which has protected you?

This is only my opinion. I am patriotic but I am not always in agreement with my country though I will die for her if need be, you'll not see me run to Malaysia or Canada (I didn't run in 1965 and I won't run today). She is, after all, MY country, warts and all. No, I am not a recruiter! I have been against our policy of foreign aid for 30 years. This is why I vote from overseas and pay a little taxes as possible by staying overseas. If I don't give it to them, then they cannot give it to some damn 3rd world country to buy AK-47's to shoot at us with!

If you are a Singaporean, I really don't expect you to understand but if you've taken up US Citizenship and have been in the US for a number of years already, then you may well have had time to learn what the emotion "Patriotism" really means. We'll can fight amongst ourselves all we want, but don't let an outsider try it.

My personal POV only okay?

sms

edited to add: WIMH, yes - I know.......I'm opinionated!

[leopard]

SMS,

i can certainly identify with what you're saying. i'm blue at home and red at work. that makes me even weirder. i fight with myself. :p

to me, there is a difference between patriotism and payback. patriotism sometimes involve love. payback always involve obligation. again, it's just a POV.

yes, i know of vets who were in VN and i know of a few who were drafted later and served in germany during the cold war. agree that bush isn't that stupid but we don't know who will declare all out war against us in the future. if i were 18 again, i would definitely go to the frontline. i'm nuts but hey, i'm entitled.

gotta stop those meddling ways.

[sundaymorningstaple]

leopard,

Just for the record, I wasn't drafted, I enlisted at 17, went to Ft. Polk, then Ft. Wolter's and on to Ft. Rucker Ala before going to the NAM as a WO with a set of chopper wings. Was 18 mo's in the NAM and left 1 week before Tet '68. Was later later discharged with a 1 year early out (that's why 18 mo's) in July '68. An awful lot of my friends are on the black wall. (I lived just outside DC and worked in DC so spent a considerable amount of time there). Would I do it again? Like you. Yup! (but at almost 59 my days are over).

sms

[leopard]

SMS,

am sorry to hear about your friends on the black wall. am young enough to be your son. a pal's dad was an officer in NAM. he has never talked about NAM to his son. all we're told: "u won't understand." i guess not. guess we've hijacked this thread long enough.