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American & Singaporean Dilemma, Dual Nationality

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llchristinall
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American & Singaporean Dilemma, Dual Nationality

Postby llchristinall » Mon, 01 Nov 2004 5:57 am

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I am an American citizen by birth, but I have been granted Singaporean citizenship because of my parents.
I plan to move back to Singapore; I'll get married there, and work there, and live there.
I'd still really like to keep my American citizenship because I may want to study there more, visit friends and family, and it is still part of my heritage.

I've heard that dual citizenships are not allowed for Singaporeans.
I am female, so I will not have to deal with the National service issue.

Would I be able to keep my American and Singaporean passport and just use my American when I go to there?

If I declared my US citizenship, and give up my Singaporean one, would I have problems getting a PR or living, working in Singapore for long periods of time?


Thanks so much for the help!

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Strong Eagle
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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:18 am

Dual citizenship is an incredibly murky area. For example, I was born a Canadian. I became a naturalized US citizen and as part of the oath I had to "renounce" loyalty to another nation. However, unless I presented a letter in person to the Canadian embassy, renouncing my Canadian citizenship, the Canadians still counted me as one of theirs.

Then, in 1995, finally changed the citizenship laws so that I would not put my U.S. naturalization in jeopardy by obtaining another passport. So, I got my Canadian passport. Then, I got my UK passport by right of descent... my father was born in England. The British don't care, the Canadians don't care, and the U.S. officially had me renounce citizenship but now permits me to hold multiple passports so long as I don't perform an act, such as taking a high level, policy job in another government, that would suggest I was changing loyalties.

The U.S. will not terminate your U.S. citizenship without you taking concrete action at a U.S. embassy. Keep two passports, travel with the one that makes life easiest... probably the Singapore passport.

llchristinall
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Postby llchristinall » Sat, 11 Dec 2004 6:43 pm

thanks for the advice :)

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Postby yoongf » Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:23 pm

Gee.. u are in a position that many Sg ppl wished they could be in, holding US and Sg citizenship.

If planning to stay in Sg for long periods, get a Sg passport and enter Sg with it. Entering on a US passport means there's a deadline that u have to leave.

There is no reason to declare your US citizenship to the Sg Govt, unless you are applying for sensitive govt jobs.

Giving up Sg citizen.. and then applying for PR.. is really a gamble, and in your situation, totally unnecessary.

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jpatokal
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Postby jpatokal » Wed, 15 Dec 2004 1:19 am

Singapore's laws on dual citizenship changed this year, according to my (limited) understanding it's now OK to be a dual citizen officially as well. Check with the ICA for the full scoop.

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Postby TLQ » Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:09 am

jpatokal wrote:Singapore's laws on dual citizenship changed this year, according to my (limited) understanding it's now OK to be a dual citizen officially as well. Check with the ICA for the full scoop.


Is this true? (I haven't been able to find anything about it on the ICA website)

I'm currently holding two passports, Singaporean & Dutch (I have Singaporean parents but I was born in the Netherlands). When I turned 21 two months ago, I received a letter. It said I'll have to renounce my Dutch nationality within a year, if I want to keep my Singaporean one.
Since I definately want to keep my Dutch nationality, I was wondering if there's a way to keep my Singapore citizenship as well. :) The ICA site states I'll have to bring 'renunciation certificates' when taking oath.

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Postby Guest » Tue, 04 Jan 2005 4:26 am

Does anybody know if it's okay to go back to singapore using your singapore passport after you've obtained citizenship in another country? Also, can you still renew your singapore passport if you're a citizen of another country? Advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Postby TLQ » Tue, 12 Apr 2005 3:05 am

Bump. I hope someone has the answer to my question. I think it's somehow possible to have a dual nationality beyond the age of 21, because I know someone who does, but they're very mysterious about not having to renounce their Singapore citizenship.

lyzadavies
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Renunciation of Singpapore Citizenship

Postby lyzadavies » Sat, 10 Jun 2006 7:25 am

Hi

I have a son who is turning 9 in September. At the moment, he has dual nationalities, Singaporean and British. I don't really favour him going to National Service when he turns 18 but by renunciating his Singapore citizenship before he turns 11, would make me feel guilty towards him if say, when he is a grown man holding a very professional job that requires him to be in Singapore for business purposes, the Immigration might turn him down on his business visa. Does it happen to anyone? :???:

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Re: Renunciation of Singpapore Citizenship

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 10 Jun 2006 9:17 am

lyzadavies wrote:Hi

I have a son who is turning 9 in September. At the moment, he has dual nationalities, Singaporean and British. I don't really favour him going to National Service when he turns 18 but by renunciating his Singapore citizenship before he turns 11, would make me feel guilty towards him if say, when he is a grown man holding a very professional job that requires him to be in Singapore for business purposes, the Immigration might turn him down on his business visa. Does it happen to anyone? :???:


Yes it can. That said, where was your son brought up? I ask because I am in a similar situation with a son with US/Sing dual citizen. For me it is a no brainer. For youngsters who have never had to defend their countries and therefore see no reason for NS they have a problem. My son will be doing NS here. He was born here, has enjoyed the relative safety and security here, received subsidised schooling, medical, housing and so forth. Therefore I feel (an so does he) that he owes something to the country. This is how it should be. I don't ask anybody else to agree with either one of us. If you remove the ability for him then YOU are at fault (he is only 9) He may well eventually meet a local girl and want to marry and come back here (As my daughter recently did in February). How are you going to explain that due to YOUR personal belief you have made a permanent decision for him, without HIS best interest at heart, that may impact his life forever. If he does his NS then he has the best of both worlds without having limited his scope. And he will be a better man because of it as well.

Again, I don't feel it necessary to agree with me or mine as it is a personal decision. I just would never like to have to depend on those kind of people for my family's future safety.

sms

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Close Encounter

Postby Close Encounter » Sat, 10 Jun 2006 6:09 pm

Jpatokal,

Could you provide the link on ICA website that says it is okay to have dual nationality beyond 21 years old?
Can't find it anywhere...

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Postby ksl » Sat, 10 Jun 2006 6:16 pm

I certainly agree with SMS, however the matter is a very complicated mixture of many factors, in my own case my son who was raised by his mother, he had a fixation on my identity, and wished to grow up and join the military.

I tried my very best to discourage him from joining the boy soldiers at 16 years, due to the fact I could identify his identity problem, on reaching the age of 18 he had a contract to sign for 3 years, in man service.

I tried without success to discourage him, after the first year of man service he wanted to get out of the military! not so easy! and very difficult to convince the authorities that the child was only just developing his own personal identity.

I discussed with him on many occassions the fact that he's made his choice and must honour the agreement, unfortunately his identity decided otherwise, and was punished for it.

I feel where children are concernd we can only do our best has parents at the time and give support for the rest of the time. from my own perspective of life, character building is very very important, and even though I have a very strong anti authority attitude, it all boils down to what is right and what is wrong.

In this day and age, it becomes quite a difficult task crossing the road, I believe I am grown up enough, to look left and right or vice versa, when crossing the road, however the Authorities say we will fine you, if you do it. I do it all the time! My wife does not, she will wait even though no cars are in the vicinity. This i feel is an infringment on my abilities to asses a situation, and dampens my spirit, yet I can see the need for children, in many countries the motorist does not care if the light is on red, they will still run you over, and Taiwan is a very good example. We have brains and they must be used, not stagnated by authority.

I prefer to encourage my children to make their own mind up, explaining the dangers from both sides, the authorities and the hazards. The most important thing I believe is that ones character is good, honour and loyalty is fundimental to ones life, and we all have to do things we don't like to do for a period of time, its all about experience. I'm sure whatever parents decide, they do it for the best! and one should not feel any guilt.

There are no guarantees that children, grown up will have a different opinion right or wrong, they are entitled to it, but they must also respect the advice of their parents, and evalute the advice based on good character and experience! I would keep both passports, becuase a couple of years NS is not a negative choice, even though the child maybe against it, the open minded attitude is best, he will gain something.

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Re: Close Encounter

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 10 Jun 2006 7:18 pm

Close Encounter wrote:Jpatokal,

Could you provide the link on ICA website that says it is okay to have dual nationality beyond 21 years old?
Can't find it anywhere...


CE,

I doubt if you will find it on the ICA site as from what I was given to understand, it's not a fact at this point. It is however been told to my wife, by the officer who granted my PR many years ago, the while it is NOT a law nor will it be found if you happen to have an American Parent then they will just kinda look the other way.

The reason for this is a US State Department case which I am aware of as my daughter was coming up for the same problem. Seem a female of dual parentage and citizenship came of age and was going to marry a local boy but did not want to give up her US Citizenship. Under duress from the Local Authorities she had to give a "letter of renunciation" to the US Embassy. While there, she made the comment to the US Consultate that she was being forced to do this by the Singapore Government. That was all it took. Nobody tells the US who cannot or can be a citizen. They told her to leave the letter, but they did not have to grant the renounciation. She has followed the letter of the Singpapore law by delivering the letter. The US's contention is that they do not have to abide by another country's laws, therefore they are not required to accept her renunciation. Stalemate. You gonna f**k with your largest trading partner? I think not. So, it's the blind eye syndrome. Other country's I doubt very seriously.

Although this is information I got about 6 months ago, it might have changed as the Government has been blasted for many years on the dual citizenship thing. Who knows, they may have made it law and left it very low key.

Hopefully JP will be able to supply where he got that info from.

sms

lyzadavies
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Dual Nationalities

Postby lyzadavies » Sat, 10 Jun 2006 11:53 pm

Thanks everyone for the pointers.

I will think long and hard about discussing this when the time comes for him to apply for his NRIC. He still has about another two years and who knows, dual nationalities might after all be fine in Singapore.

Cheers.

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Postby riversandlakes » Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:35 am

Wowee, very interesting...
Goatboy will always cherish his former goatgirl.
But the world is full of fluffier ones.


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