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Reverse relocation

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indirock73
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Reverse relocation

Post by indirock73 » Tue, 15 Jun 2010 3:01 pm

Hi to all here,
normally we here of friends on this forum seeking advice on relocating into singapore , costs , living standards and all and sundry issues that a typical expat would have in his mind.

Well here is one from me to all you out there - am seeking advice on a role I may be able to land in dubai and it means relocating from singapore to dubai. Now having lived in singapore for a considerable time - its got boring , but then again with my kid and family and the ease of transport and everything am not so sure of taking the plunge.

need your help folks to share your perspectives - have seen both places have lived in Sg , subai is definitely harsher climate and I would say a bit newer and rougher but the damn offer is almost double my current package.

So what is peoples advise here ? parallely are things more expensive there ? should we pick up furniture and white goods from here and transport there ? which international mover/shipper should we use ?
I definitely intend to take my art and little household artefacts with me

All comments and advise is solicited and welcome !

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nakatago
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Post by nakatago » Tue, 15 Jun 2010 3:18 pm

Opinion piece about Dubai: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 64368.html

There's some bias (ever read "Disneyland with the Death Penalty"? both are opinion pieces, after all) but there's also glimpses of truth.
"A quokka is what would happen if there was an anime about kangaroos."

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Post by durain » Tue, 15 Jun 2010 5:30 pm

oh yeah, there are a lot of "dark side of dubai" that you dont usually see or hear! but if you are a law abiding citizen, then it should be OK.

"the damn offer is almost double my current package" darn! that is a tough cookies to decide!!!

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Post by nakatago » Tue, 15 Jun 2010 5:37 pm

durain wrote:oh yeah, there are a lot of "dark side of dubai" that you dont usually see or hear! but if you are a law abiding citizen, then it should be OK.

"the damn offer is almost double my current package" darn! that is a tough cookies to decide!!!
hey, just pointing to an alarmist/cautionary tale. OP having lived here and if he has read the disneyland article, he knows the degree of disconnect some opinions can be from his own experience. otherwise, it makes for interesting readin' (if you like horror stories).
"A quokka is what would happen if there was an anime about kangaroos."

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Post by revhappy » Tue, 15 Jun 2010 8:00 pm

Dubai should be generally cheaper than SG. But property is similarly priced.
Be prepared to stay slightly away from your workplace and drive for an hour in traffic, unless your employer provides transport.

But if you love driving then you are in for treat! You can buy Mercedes, BMW, Audi for half of SG price without COE and petrol is probably cheaper than coke! :lol:

If your offer is twice what you are making here, I would grab it with both hands!

If its only the costs and the material quality of life then I would say you would definitely be better off in Dubai.

But do remember that there are several restrictions on your freedom, like, you may not be able to go out and drink in public. In the month of ramadam, you will not be able to find food anywhere nor will you find any company to eat. Higher chances of racism especially if you are from the Indian subcontinent.

Another thing I ve heard is its virtually impossible to get residency in UAE, you will always remain a foreigner there. So short term there are very few reasons to actually reject this offer but long run, you need to do a bit of thinking.

The above is totally my own opinion based on what I have heard from my friends so do your own research.

All the best!!!

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Post by Mad Scientist » Wed, 16 Jun 2010 7:29 am

I worked in Saudi years back.I frequent Dubai quite often.
Not much diff except the implementation of Islamic Law . Saudi is more rigid compare to UAE or Dubai
There is no PR for foreigners outside Arab League Countries. So you can stay there for years to come but will not get any PR or residency there fullstop. Even if your child is born there.No recognition at all for citizenship.
Same goes to UAE , DUBAI .

There are two type of foreign workers be it in Saudi or Dubai. If you are on the upper scale you will be alright. However if you are on the lower scale of the spectrum, Revhappy is correct, generally not treated in the best manner.
If you like sand, sand and more sand yeah go for it.If you want to test your driving skill on the desert , this is the place
Whiteware, food is comparable not much diff to SG unless you are thinking of eating at high end joints.
Housing best to get your employer sort it out. can get messy if you do not understand Arabic
To me if you are going just to make money there, yeah , otherwise , it is quite boring. During Ramadhan everywhere is like a ghost town.
Learning Arabic is important if you are going to stay there longer
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Post by Strong Eagle » Wed, 16 Jun 2010 8:16 am

You only see three things in Dubai. If it's watered, you'll see grass... otherwise concrete or sand.

My PM's who worked there couldn't wait to get out. I think recreational activities are few unless you enjoy desert trekking. The place is gaudy and smacks of unbridled materialism.

The population is at least 70 percent expats... the locals don't work. So, hotel managers and the like come from India and Pakistan, white expats in top managerial and technical jobs.

You can make lots of money but make sure you have plans for what happens if you lose your job. You get two weeks to leave the country and if during that time you don't square away leases and rentals, bills due, etc you can easily end up in debtors prison. During the recession the airport was literally filled with cars with the keys in them... people who lost their job knew the consequences, and simple packed and left before they faced prison.

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Post by Mad Scientist » Wed, 16 Jun 2010 8:28 am

Yeah you are right . I noticed that too . In Saudi, all the trees are watered by a sprinkler near the base of the tree individually.It is rather unnatural when you can see all the surrounding is dusty and covered with sands and these rows of trees usually along the highway intersection plush with greenery.
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Post by carteki » Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:31 am

Whether or not you move really depends on what you want. I was offered a job in Dubai for the same money - Singapore wins hands down on that one (despite the fact that I already have family there). Does it advance your career?

Another thing to consider is the cost of living - If you have kids, I suspect that Dubai could turn out to be more expensive the SG as you have no choice but to send your kids to private schools and I've heard more rental horror stories in Dubai than Singapore (owners can expect the full years lease payments upfront in Dubai). Traffic is horrendus and dangerous.

On the plus side, you're closer to Europe and the east coast of the US (if home is either of those places).

Its not that difficult to live there - although you'll find you won't socialise with the "locals" and mainly with other expats. The lack of permanent residence options does make everyone feel a bit transient and does impact the "sense of community" that you get here in Singapore. Its an experience and could be a good one - just depends where you are and what you want from life...

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what i hear

Post by indirock73 » Mon, 21 Jun 2010 3:04 pm

Hi folks, thank you for your valuable opinions,I do hear a starker, barer and a more radical picture of Dubai , at the same time I hear its worth taking the plunge depending upon whats important currently in life.

Having read all your responses the only piece that worries me is the "debt prison" and "15 days to get out" piece.

MAN why cant they make the environment a bit mre expat friendly if 70% of the population is expats ??

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Re: what i hear

Post by Mad Scientist » Mon, 21 Jun 2010 3:16 pm

indirock73 wrote:Hi folks, thank you for your valuable opinions,I do hear a starker, barer and a more radical picture of Dubai , at the same time I hear its worth taking the plunge depending upon whats important currently in life.

Having read all your responses the only piece that worries me is the "debt prison" and "15 days to get out" piece.

MAN why cant they make the environment a bit mre expat friendly if 70% of the population is expats ??
Although the majority of the workforce is expat and they are very open to development and growth but one must not forget that Dubai is a Muslim State govern by Muslim Law. This takes precedent above all other things .
AS I suggest it is best your Dubai company arrange all the accommodation for you as this takes all the necessary worrying .
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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nakatago
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Re: what i hear

Post by nakatago » Mon, 21 Jun 2010 3:50 pm

indirock73 wrote:MAN why cant they make the environment a bit mre expat friendly if 70% of the population is expats ??
Pride.
"A quokka is what would happen if there was an anime about kangaroos."

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Post by JR8 » Mon, 21 Jun 2010 6:14 pm

nakatago wrote:Opinion piece about Dubai: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 64368.html

There's some bias (ever read "Disneyland with the Death Penalty"? both are opinion pieces, after all) but there's also glimpses of truth.

All very well, but The Independent is so left wing I wouldn't use it to wipe my arse if I'd run out of bog-roll

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Post by Big Mac » Mon, 21 Jun 2010 6:20 pm

I think there are several things you should take into consideration besides just the salary (and when you say its double your pay i assume thats net of tax). Btw without sounding too realistic, but besides % you should look at absolute $ increase. Double salary of sgd50k is alot less enticing than say double of sgd300k salary.

* rental is probably cheaper in dxb compared to singapore especially when compared to condos. The space is obviously bigger and to give you an indication, i would say a nice 2 bedda (with sea views n 110m2) would cost roughly 25k-30k USD a year.

* Net on net though, i would say financially you would be better off in dxb than in sg. You spend more on food (bad quality too), childrens education, coffee, internet and cable tv. However you save on cost of car (and u DEFINITELY need a car in dxb), electricity bill and taxis! I was based in uae for a couple of years and i find that i definitely saved more over there. I think it also helped that there is really not much to do there so hence you dont spend as much.

However the trade off's are many

* food is pretty ordinary there and if you want to eat anything half decent it cost a small fortune

* lifestyle is very ordinary and there really isn't much to do apart from malls, malls and more malls. I think it is worthwhile to take your wife over for a visit at least to see if she likes it as i think the one sufferrign the most would be your family. Dxb is catered more for the young, single kinda guy in my opinon.

* contrary to other people's post on the rules and regulations, dxb is actually not that bad. I mean you are in someone else's country so respect their culture. You can get away with alot of things but just use common sense. Alot of cases you see on papers portray only half of the story. And no, you do not only have 15 days to leave the country when you lose your job

---------------------

Now should you decide to go, then i would suggest buying the white good / furniture over in dxb (unless off course your new employer is paying for all relocation cost). I find generally furniture in dxb to be cheaper and better quality. As i said, i was over there for a while so feel free to PM me. In fact i would be more than happy to meet up and have a chat with you over a coffe.

I was having this discussion the other day with a few colleagues and friends and the conclusion was i wouldn't go back there for 2-3 more years even if they tripled my pay there. GL and hope this helps

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Post by nakatago » Mon, 21 Jun 2010 7:43 pm

JR8 wrote:
nakatago wrote:Opinion piece about Dubai: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 64368.html

There's some bias (ever read "Disneyland with the Death Penalty"? both are opinion pieces, after all) but there's also glimpses of truth.

All very well, but The Independent is so left wing I wouldn't use it to wipe my arse if I'd run out of bog-roll
aye, that may be (hence disclaimer) but I've heard so much anecdotal evidence from my countrymen and even my poow wittle sister...

...and it's the first thing that came to mind. my bad. :P
"A quokka is what would happen if there was an anime about kangaroos."

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