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"inconsistent information" - reason for EP rejection

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 07 Jul 2010 7:15 am

The difference here is you are talking about employers. That is one thing. The MOM is another. Employers don't care. Normally MOM doesn't care either but the gahmen has given MOM a directive to slow down recruitment of foreigners. Therefore, they are tightening up on the requiarements. They can use ANY criteria. We don't know what they are. But, with anecdotal evidence a lot of subsequent rejections or late/prolonged approvals seems to be due to job hopping. (they gotta start somewhere). Flux in the workforce doesn't help any employer as each new employee has a certain breaking in period/training period until they get up to speed. New employees are a drain on all companies initially. Sorry, you are still way off.

Anger? Nah. Pity is a more appropriate way as you are "advising" people of ways to screw up their lives here in Singapore. We are trying to help. What's your reason for giving 'bad' advice? :-|

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Postby chococat » Wed, 07 Jul 2010 2:32 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The difference here is you are talking about employers. That is one thing. The MOM is another. Employers don't care.... Anger? Nah. Pity is a more appropriate way as you are "advising" people of ways to screw up their lives here in Singapore. We are trying to help. What's your reason for giving 'bad' advice? :-|


I'm not advising anyone (except maybe those who offer snap judgments and verbal abuse instead of useful information, or preferably keeping their mouths shut).

I'm not really talking about employers either. (Any company/individual employer worth working your time will not make a value judgment about a worked-six-months-only-but-parted-amicably situation without knowing a few details. In that sense your "employers don't care" is somewhat correct.)

To make it simple, my point is this. The paradigm is shifting...or has shifted (sorry for the cliche). The current view is that an employment history should be a narrative more than a checklist.

Some of the most successful companies now are those that recognize that things that may once have been viewed as "inconsistent/erratic employment history" can be signs of incredibly gifted or charismatic individuals with diverse and valuable skills and/or knowledge bases.

I have seen this firsthand in a small niche company that ballooned to double its size while tripling its profit margin by actively recruiting people with a very specific and varied educational and employment background. In about 18 months it was blowing larger, older companies out of the water--winning un-winnable contracts--all because it focused on hiring people whose "erratic" work histories made them "worth 4 employees" rather than one (in the words of one of their CEOs).

A major western nation as well, has finally stopped using its foreign service examination (an egalitarian but pedantic system) as its primary recruitment tool for general diplomatic positions* and now also takes a close look at CVs to find the sort of people they want to represent them and handle their business abroad.

*generalists are "masters of all trades" (to use a metaphor we all understand)

And the anger is/was obviously mine...your reading skills need a little work, I think! :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 07 Jul 2010 6:50 pm

Okay, fair enough. I see where you are coming from and accept your rant for what it is. A rant. So, actually, your post, like theirs, didn't do anything at all for the OP but instead you were just adding another bit of noise to the thread. I read too fast and I apologize for getting up your nose, even though I think you also went off half-cocked for no reason as well. :-|

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 4:08 am

chococat wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:The difference here is you are talking about employers. That is one thing. The MOM is another. Employers don't care.... Anger? Nah. Pity is a more appropriate way as you are "advising" people of ways to screw up their lives here in Singapore. We are trying to help. What's your reason for giving 'bad' advice? :-|


I'm not advising anyone (except maybe those who offer snap judgments and verbal abuse instead of useful information, or preferably keeping their mouths shut).

I'm not really talking about employers either. (Any company/individual employer worth working your time will not make a value judgment about a worked-six-months-only-but-parted-amicably situation without knowing a few details. In that sense your "employers don't care" is somewhat correct.)

To make it simple, my point is this. The paradigm is shifting...or has shifted (sorry for the cliche). The current view is that an employment history should be a narrative more than a checklist.

Some of the most successful companies now are those that recognize that things that may once have been viewed as "inconsistent/erratic employment history" can be signs of incredibly gifted or charismatic individuals with diverse and valuable skills and/or knowledge bases.

I have seen this firsthand in a small niche company that ballooned to double its size while tripling its profit margin by actively recruiting people with a very specific and varied educational and employment background. In about 18 months it was blowing larger, older companies out of the water--winning un-winnable contracts--all because it focused on hiring people whose "erratic" work histories made them "worth 4 employees" rather than one (in the words of one of their CEOs).

A major western nation as well, has finally stopped using its foreign service examination (an egalitarian but pedantic system) as its primary recruitment tool for general diplomatic positions* and now also takes a close look at CVs to find the sort of people they want to represent them and handle their business abroad.

*generalists are "masters of all trades" (to use a metaphor we all understand)

And the anger is/was obviously mine...your reading skills need a little work, I think! :)




However you try and zenify it up, people who job hop every few months are still totally not worth hiring.

Thank god for FT.

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Re: and...this

Postby Saint » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:09 am

chococat wrote:(Someone is worried amarettoSour is the one "giving us a bad name"? i lol'd at that one!)


Not sure why you would find it funny but then it's obvious you are not too aware of the employment ways of Singaporeans. Locals tend to stay with a Company for years, if not for their entire working life, that's just the way they are. Having an expat come into a position just as a stepping stone to move on after a few months does cause resentment amongst locals. It's basically a waste of Company's time, effect and money. I've had a few discussions with both local and expat friends here who have witnessed this first hand.

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Postby amarettoSour » Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:50 pm

that may be true in a typical corporate environment, however i work in advertising where things are a bit different. I've also "had a few discussions with both local and expat friends" in the industry and i can assure you NO ONE (both foreigner and singaporean) stays with the same agency for more than a couple years. ad agencies are quite notorious for its high turnover rate and this is true not just in Singapore but pretty much every where else in the world.

anyway, just a little insight as to why i still don't agree that it's so bad to change jobs so fast. for my case anyway.

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Postby beppi » Wed, 14 Jul 2010 6:29 pm

Saint is wrong: The average (over all Singapore employees) staying time in one job is around 3.5 years.
I saw this in a study about 8-9 years ago, and don't think it has changed much since.
The study also showed that those who stay longer in one organisation do not progress any more in their job grade. Not sure about cause and effect, but job-hopping and career seem to go together here.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 15 Jul 2010 4:55 am

beppi wrote:Saint is wrong: The average (over all Singapore employees) staying time in one job is around 3.5 years.
I saw this in a study about 8-9 years ago, and don't think it has changed much since.
The study also showed that those who stay longer in one organisation do not progress any more in their job grade. Not sure about cause and effect, but job-hopping and career seem to go together here.


I have to agree with Saint. There are two sides.Most Asian or SGer will stay with one company. If they are blue collar , their rice bowl is a big factor to them. White collar yes, they will move round esp in banking, advertising, sales etc.This is already inculcate in their Asian values
I came from sales , mfg electronic background. Most of my staff here has been with me about 5 to 20 yrs when we started back then. Expat and local alike. You treat them like human , it will repay itself in kindness.
For those that job hop , you can see their colours in under 3 years
:cool:
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Saint » Thu, 15 Jul 2010 8:57 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
beppi wrote:Saint is wrong: The average (over all Singapore employees) staying time in one job is around 3.5 years.
I saw this in a study about 8-9 years ago, and don't think it has changed much since.
The study also showed that those who stay longer in one organisation do not progress any more in their job grade. Not sure about cause and effect, but job-hopping and career seem to go together here.


I have to agree with Saint. There are two sides.Most Asian or SGer will stay with one company. If they are blue collar , their rice bowl is a big factor to them. White collar yes, they will move round esp in banking, advertising, sales etc.This is already inculcate in their Asian values
I came from sales , mfg electronic background. Most of my staff here has been with me about 5 to 20 yrs when we started back then. Expat and local alike. You treat them like human , it will repay itself in kindness.
For those that job hop , you can see their colours in under 3 years
:cool:


Thank you MS

Beppi, I was specifically referring to Singaporeans not the entire workforce here including expats. I work in an office where it's probably a 50/50 split between locals and expats. In the 2 years I've been here not a single local has left.


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