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Getting an S Pass with a Criminal Record from the U.S.?

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Plavt
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Postby Plavt » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 7:16 am

JR8 wrote:But hold on, we are talking about a person with an American record. Wondering if they should declare it. Nothing says anything about providing a 'back-ground check [record]' unless of course you wish to declare one. Wow this was such a simple question... now getting so muddied.


The only thing getting muddled is yourself; although pure hearsay, I do recall a guy lying about his teaching qualifications with the result the authorities sent him packing. This from what I can gather is now commonplace in many other Asian countries.

No, having a criminal record does not disallow travel to the US


You are wrong I have seen more than one example, granted there may occasionally be ways around it but there is nothing 'space cake' in that observation, like it or not it is a fact. As for the music industry even Cat Stevens found himself in some bother! There are means and ways to find out we may not know or like all of them but they are there!

Maybe the rules on travel may change from time to time as an American here tells me but if you intend to live and work in a country you can be sure you application will be subject to more scrutiny than a tourist, of that you can be sure.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 8:48 am

My BiL, twice removed? - never could figure out relationships - My Wife's brother's wife's sister's husband (a Yank like myself) is a retired US DEA agent who worked out of Singapore for almost 15 years between Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand & Cambodia. He is now ownes a security firm here in Singapore (after he retired from the US Gov't DEA) I've been told by him that the level of cooperation and depth that the gahmen here goes when vetting people is huge. They have their own vetting teams in the Major countries to do background checks on each and every application. Often, that is why is takes so long to do some countries citizen's applications - lack of infrastructure and the need to do it all manually and often not without some grease in certain Asian countries - them's the one's that take 4 or 5 weeks.

Lying is not an option. You might get away with it initially, but just like the fraudlent degrees from Myanmar. Eventually they get found out. Late last year (I've mentioned it before) I lost two S pass holders who have been working for me for 6 months already when we were visited by a team of 3 MOM field agents who picked them up on sight and whisked them away immediately.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 5:17 pm

MS:
JR8 if you have been living in Singapore that long you should be able to understand that MOM , ICA, MHA works hand in hand. If the OP comes here to apply for a job, his application will be vetted thoroughly that I am very sure. Central Narcotics Bureau works very closely with other foreign agencies. If he lied, he is done for. If he declared truthfully, a background check with DEA and other agencies in US or Canada will be done. ...



Thanks for the links, interesting reading. I'm sure the SG govt share data between all their departments. They increasingly do this in the UK too. What is unclear is the level of international data sharing. If a US citizen applies for an EP, do they just run a criminal check on him in the US (as has been suggested here). What if that person has lived for many years in several other countries ... do they run checks with those countries too? I can understand high level international cooperation, but having access to international records of 'misdemeanours' would surprise me...


MS:
There is no correlation between SGer thinking out of the box and lying on official documents. I do agree Sger need to have this approach and the need of FT but this is not and I do not think nor it is an option for OP to consider.

Sorry but my comment was completely tongue-in-cheek, it was followed with a ;-)

You touch on one point I alluded to: if your application arguably is a long shot (I'm saying -if-, I am in no way commenting on the original poster's specific position), then one might consider what one has to lose.







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No, having a criminal record does not disallow travel to the US

Plavt:
You are wrong I have seen more than one example, granted there may occasionally be ways around it but there is nothing 'space cake' in that observation, like it or not it is a fact. As for the music industry even Cat Stevens found himself in some bother! There are means and ways to find out we may not know or like all of them but they are there!

Hmmm! Well in that case why do the US ask (on the visa waiver scheme) if you have ever been convicted of a crime involving 'moral turpitude', but SG on their visa app ask if you have ever been convicted of a crime? It is because the US for the purposes of the VWS do not refuse entry for crimes that do not involve moral turpitude. Furthermore note, that if you have committed a crime involving moral turpitude (which I generally understand to equate to a felony, or two+ misdemeanours in aggregate), then you can go and apply for a visa. You won't always get it, but there is no blanket refusal policy. I used to frequent a busy travel forum on the web, and this question would come up every other week, so believe me, I've heard people's US visa/criminal record sagas trotted out for years on end....


SMS:
My BiL, twice removed? - never could figure out relationships - My Wife's brother's wife's sister's husband (a Yank like myself) is a retired US DEA agent who worked out of Singapore for almost 15 years between Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand & Cambodia. He is now ownes a security firm here in Singapore (after he retired from the US Gov't DEA) I've been told by him that the level of cooperation and depth that the gahmen here goes when vetting people is huge. They have their own vetting teams in the Major countries to do background checks on each and every application. Often, that is why is takes so long to do some countries citizen's applications - lack of infrastructure and the need to do it all manually and often not without some grease in certain Asian countries - them's the one's that take 4 or 5 weeks.

Interesting. Do they only screen the 'home country' of citizenship? If so you might think that a weakness that crims are aware of and work around. For example what if someone is clean as a whistle in the US, but has a drug distribution network based out of Mexico, or one of many other countries? Surely the logical end point point might be having to check crim records on an individual in every country in the world... ?


p.s. Writing this on a cranky litttle netbook that self deletes more than it posts. So apologies for the blown-out formatting. I am relying on the patience of the original posters to whom I am replying to recall which bits they wrote :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 5:58 pm

JR8 wrote:
Interesting. Do they only screen the 'home country' of citizenship? If so you might think that a weakness that crims are aware of and work around. For example what if someone is clean as a whistle in the US, but has a drug distribution network based out of Mexico, or one of many other countries? Surely the logical end point point might be having to check crim records on an individual in every country in the world... ?


Talking about a long shot! I wonder how many potential PR's or EP's in the past 15 years applying here would have fit that category. Most passports show the place of birth so how hard would it be. Multiple passport holders I reckon would be checked in each respective country, but again, you are really reaching! :P

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 6:03 pm

Well JR8 perhaps you would like to tell me why a guy with a PHD in botany and biology hauled into court on a charge of gross indecency in the UK was concerned about being convicted due to the fact he had applied for a visa to live and work in the US? Although that was some time ago, I doubt much has changed, probably more stringent post 9/11.

In addition there was the savant who was invited courtesy of the TV crew filming him but was refused because of his criminal conviction!

Irrespective of what you suggest answering the questions honestly is the best policy. Think of things in simple terms; does the Singaporean government hire foreign teachers without checking out their credentials?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 6:21 pm

[quote="JR8"]MS:

Thanks for the links, interesting reading. I'm sure the SG govt share data between all their departments. They increasingly do this in the UK too. What is unclear is the level of international data sharing. If a US citizen applies for an EP, do they just run a criminal check on him in the US (as has been suggested here). What if that person has lived for many years in several other countries ... do they run checks with those countries too? I can understand high level international cooperation, but having access to international records of 'misdemeanours' would surprise me...

JR8 this is NOT a misdemenours in SG Law context. Under the penal code
133 section 33, this is a serious crime. Possession of an illicit drug that weighs more than 20 cents will send you to the gallow in SG.
I guess you have not being to PCC at Cantonment. The facilities that they have is world class. To have a background check on inbound applicant is their cup of tea



You touch on one point I alluded to: if your application arguably is a long shot (I'm saying -if-, I am in no way commenting on the original poster's specific position), then one might consider what one has to lose.
Yeah but this is a death trap for him. You are putting a noose on his neck. What if he lied and got the job here, the checks is always on going and he was found to have perjure on his application, he will be double whammied with two offenses lying on official doc and undeclared criminal history among other things.
You have to remember the OP wants to come and work here not social visit. As such serious consideration is needed or else he would not be posting to this forum full of nameless people in the web asking for advise
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 6:46 pm

Are checks ongoing? Do the ICA still run periodic checks of US records on SMS despite his near 3 decades in SG?

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 6:58 pm

Plavt wrote:Well JR8 perhaps you would like to tell me why a guy with a PHD in botany and biology hauled into court on a charge of gross indecency in the UK was concerned about being convicted due to the fact he had applied for a visa to live and work in the US? Although that was some time ago, I doubt much has changed, probably more stringent post 9/11.


You stated point blank that I'm wrong, but I am not. Shrug off what I explained if you like but it changes nothing.

Perhaps the said botanist knew that being charged with 'gross indecency' would preclude his from getting a US visa? Maybe he knew his potential employer (or their lawyers) would file his application, and he didn';t want them to know his record? Maybe, perhaps, maybe.....who knows

In any case, this is a distraction from your incorrect statement that having a criminal conviction disallows you from visiting the US. My God if that were the case, the florida tourism industry would close down overnight, what with no chavs being able to visit... lol



:quarrel:

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 8:19 pm

Try reading this; :roll:

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_new/visa/niv/add_crime.html


To the OP: honesty is the best policy, as a Scotsman once said to me way back in my teenage years, when I was about to take off from my lodgings without paying the rent: "if you start doing things like that now, you will be doing things like that all your life." I think you can see the moral in his argument.

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Postby raden888 » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 9:21 pm

JR8 wrote: My Wife's brother's wife's sister's husband


:lol: A bit too much to take in :lol:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:11 pm

Actually I said that. JR8 was quoting me. :lol:

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 10:57 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Actually I said that. JR8 was quoting me. :lol:


Yah! I could barely get my head around it either :o

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Postby ksl » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 11:04 pm

I would most certainly declare the offence, noting the punishment and declaration, that you have never relapsed. Much safer than risking another conviction.
Last edited by ksl on Fri, 04 Jun 2010 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 11:13 pm




Yes, you have to declare any criminal record if you apply for a visa. But you do not have to have a visa to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Scheme.

Some people consider that contradictory, but it is not really when you consider the extended validity, and various legal rights afforded by having a visa. Put another way, if you arrive in the States on the VWS and USC&BP at the port of entry don't take a shine to your 'Death to America' t-shirt, they are perfectly within their rights to turn you around and send you home on the next plane. (that said even with a visa, I'm not sure the t-shirt would go down any better hehe...).

'Try reading this'...

'B) Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?...

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 04 Jun 2010 11:19 pm

...netbook threatening to lose another long post... so I thought it better to post what I'd written and continue in a separate post...



and

...'Crimes involving moral turpitude - Such offenses generally involve conduct which is inherently base, vile, or depraved and contrary to the accepted rules of morality and the duties owed to persons or society in general. There are factors, such as the age of the offender or the date of the offense, that may affect whether an offense will be considered a crime involving moral turpitude for purposes of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

For further information refer to § 212(a)(2) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(2), § 101(a)(43) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. § 1101(a)(43) and corresponding regulations in the Code of Federal Regulations.
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/WebHelp/E ... %20Program?


Anyway having a pissing contest about US visa law isn't really helping the OP much, however much spiffingly jolly fun it might be :D Time to move the topic on I reckon. Best of luck to the OP however he decides to procede...


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