Buying a car

[aargon]

Hi everyone,

I`m looking to buy a car and was browsing the Singapore No.1 Car site for good deals. To keep within my budget, it looks like I`ll have to get an OPC but had some other queries I was hoping to get some advise on:

1) GST - is GST charged by car dealers for second hand cars? 7% can be quite a lot, so wondering whether its cheaper to buy from a direct owner who i assume would not be charging it.

2) Car Loans - are these available to EP holders or only EP / citizens

3) bargaining - how much scope do you think there is for bargaining? it may seem like a naieve question - but i pretty much have no idea whether the prices I see on the site are reasonable vs what i should be paying.

Thanks for your help.

[ScoobyDoes]

a) The price from the dealer will include GST. Buying from an owner will be cheaper anyway but this is normal everywhere.

b) Yes but you'll need a local guarantor.

c) Depending on what car you go for there will only be scope for a few percentage points in negotiation. Second hand cars are holding their values at the moment given an up and down period for new COE at the moment.

[snowqueen]

We just bought our car from a dealer we found from one of the main 2nd hand car web sites which we picked up last week. We got a loan to pay for the car which the dealer sorted out and as and EP holder we did not need a local guarantor. They basically apply to loads of loan companies and go with whoever is cheapest which usually comes in around 2.2%. In order to get the lower interest rates though you are expected to put in a down payment say $5k.

Other costs you need to consider are the transfer fee which is c$500 and the garage may charge a fee of another $500. Car insurance is not cheap here. The cheapest quote we got was around $1200 and that was with AVIVA. The original quote was a bit less but my husband decided to add a couple of other things to the policy.

By the way, the dealer may try to get you to go through them for their car insurance telling you it's 'company policy' which is rubbish. Say to them that you will be shopping around for insurance yourself but may go with them if they find the cheapest deal. If you do get your own insurance, make sure that it has the finance (loan) company name on the policy - an 11th our mistake the dealer failed to tell us about as we were moments away from going to collect the car.

[revhappy]

I personally find the idea of owning an OPC car as terrible!. I mean, 95% of our travel happens to be during peak hours and while going to work.

Imagine, buying your dream car and then not being able to drive it when you need it the most! You still need to go through the monotonous motions of waiting for a bus get down at the interchange walk to the mrt, listen to all the crap "Please stand behind the yellow line...Doors are closing"! and then get down at an mrt interchange wait for the next train and get down at your mrt destination and then catch another bus or walk to you ULTIMATE destination. All this for a distance of 5-10 kms

Every since I bought my bike, I am loving the riding experience! I still pity all those people who come to my office like zombies, doing the same routine, day in and day out. Why dont people think out of the box?

[x9200]

Every since I bought my bike, I am loving the riding experience! I still pity all those people who come to my office like zombies, doing the same routine, day in and day out. Why dont people think out of the box?

Nothing of in-box thinking I guess. It's because:
- a car is for showing off your social status
- you have children
- you have prejudices regarding safety of local motorbike riding
- you rather prefer to spend your time in your car then with the others in the public bus even if this is the same traffic jam.

[revhappy]

Every since I bought my bike, I am loving the riding experience! I still pity all those people who come to my office like zombies, doing the same routine, day in and day out. Why dont people think out of the box?

Nothing of in-box thinking I guess. It's because:
- a car is for showing off your social status
- you have children
- you have prejudices regarding safety of local motorbike riding
- you rather prefer to spend your time in your car then with the others in the public bus even if this is the same traffic jam.

I was talking about the people who use public transport to my office. Most of them are a single or couple. Even if you have a kid. You could still ride to office. Especially since my office is in Changi Business Park.
Anyone who has travelled to CBP will know of the hassles of public transport to get to there.

Riding is a such an engaging experience! You save time, you get the adrenaline rush! You dont have to resort to an ipod to cut the crap that they keep anouncing on MRTs! You dont get frustrated and bored waiting.

Ofcourse mainting a motorcycle is slightly more expensive than using public transport and definitely much much lesser than owning a car.

Its just that people are ignorant and think that owning a motorcycle is very expensive.

But I guess its good that people dont think about riding. Imagine everyone who uses mrt gets a motorcycle. How would Singapore roads be So thanks everyone

[sundaymorningstaple]

Nah, everybody know maintaining a M/C is cheap. But everybody knows that M/C's are targets for trucks and anybody else who has ever been cut off by the idjits that normally ride them here. Not talking about Motorcycles here but Motorbikes (<400cc) as normally ridden by the masses. Riding bikes here is a quick way to shortening your lifespan if you do it for transport on a daily basis.

And yes, I've owned many bikes over the years including one here as well, but sold it around 10 years ago (750 Magna).

[x9200]

Nah, everybody know maintaining a M/C is cheap. But everybody knows that M/C's are targets for trucks and anybody else who has ever been cut off by the idjits that normally ride them here. Not talking about Motorcycles here but Motorbikes (<400cc) as normally ridden by the masses. Riding bikes here is a quick way to shortening your lifespan if you do it for transport on a daily basis.

This is close to the truth but then you do not expect this kind of reasoning to be followed by the said idjits so how can? Interesting point: expats usually thinks it is dangerous, do locals truly think the same? I would rather expect again a sociological factor - only the lowest of the lowest ride motorbikes. Right after bicycles. This is the reason why all the locals look at you as an UFO if you ride a bike or motorbike.

[revhappy]

When you say masses ride motorcycles, I think you are reffering to those guys whos work involves lots and lots of travel and hence public transport isn't viable. For Eg. Pizza Delivery, dispatch guys etc.

Why would the "lowest of lowest" care to own a motorcycle when public transport costs a fraction of it? Or may be you are reffering to the workers from JB, you can easily make out by looking at the registration plate.

There are couple of Ang Moh Directors in my company(A large Investment Bank) ride to work and look rather cool with all riding jacket, glasses and the Shoei/Arai helmets.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Nah, everybody know maintaining a M/C is cheap. But everybody knows that M/C's are targets for trucks and anybody else who has ever been cut off by the idjits that normally ride them here. Not talking about Motorcycles here but Motorbikes (<400cc) as normally ridden by the masses. Riding bikes here is a quick way to shortening your lifespan if you do it for transport on a daily basis.

This is close to the truth but then you do not expect this kind of reasoning to be followed by the said idjits so how can? Interesting point: expats usually thinks it is dangerous, do locals truly think the same? I would rather expect again a sociological factor - only the lowest of the lowest ride motorbikes. Right after bicycles. This is the reason why all the locals look at you as an UFO if you ride a bike or motorbike.

There in lies the rub....

If they could think, they probably wouldn't ride motorbikes! Good proof is the wearing of Asian Motorcycle boots! (flip-flops) while doing 120km/hr down the PIE on a 250cc smoke-belching, screaming at 10K RPM, krotchrocket with an ah lian perched on pillion!

[ScoobyDoes]

There are couple of Ang Moh Directors in my company(A large Investment Bank) ride to work and look rather cool with all riding jacket, glasses and the Shoei/Arai helmets.

There goes the difference between riding a Ducati or Harley instead of wearing your jacket backwards to stop looking like the Michelin Man.

[Strong Eagle]

Nah, everybody know maintaining a M/C is cheap. But everybody knows that M/C's are targets for trucks and anybody else who has ever been cut off by the idjits that normally ride them here. Not talking about Motorcycles here but Motorbikes (<400cc) as normally ridden by the masses. Riding bikes here is a quick way to shortening your lifespan if you do it for transport on a daily basis.

This is close to the truth but then you do not expect this kind of reasoning to be followed by the said idjits so how can? Interesting point: expats usually thinks it is dangerous, do locals truly think the same? I would rather expect again a sociological factor - only the lowest of the lowest ride motorbikes. Right after bicycles. This is the reason why all the locals look at you as an UFO if you ride a bike or motorbike.

There in lies the rub....

If they could think, they probably wouldn't ride motorbikes! Good proof is the wearing of Asian Motorcycle boots! (flip-flops) while doing 120km/hr down the PIE on a 250cc smoke-belching, screaming at 10K RPM, krotchrocket with an ah lian perched on pillion!

You're pretty hard there, SMS. You already know that I ride every day, every where... no car... although I did pick up a fab deal for the wife on that 1992 Honda that a forumer was talking about a while ago.

Facts as I see them:

a) Yes, the more protection you have, the more likely you are to survive a wreck in one piece. I have a friend that always wears a Kevlar lined jacket. He does not ride even one tenth as much as I do. I wear everything from jeans to shorts, and I have on occasion worn sandals... not flip flops... a big bike requires more control.

b) Singapore traffic is safer than most other cities I have ridden in... and that is on 3 continents, and many countries. Traffic is slower, smaller, and more used to motorbikes, and if the light is on and someone is at home in the motorcyclists head, this is one of the easier places to anticipate what someone is going to do.

c) The morons that really will run you down are easy to identify. They are the ones with the really expensive cars, who seem to think their road tax bought the whole road, goods vehicle drivers who couldn't actually drive an arcade game, taxi drivers (mostly OK, except for that veer to the curb for a waiting passenger), and oddly enough, white expat females, who are either clueless about lane splitting or get pissed off that a motorbike caused them a 1 second delay in start off from a light.

d) Too many locals don't think... they are not situationally aware, and for and encounter with a car, this means cleaning their mess off the quarter panel... for a biker like me, a real danger when an asshole passes my bike as I am SIGNALLING and moving over. And when you see a real idiot on a motorbike it is a guaranteed safe bet they will have a JB license plate.

Motorcycles aren't 'targets'. They are simply missed in the scheme of things. The wise biker knows this and adapts. Unfortunately, in spite of an extended training program, too many come out clueless about how to stay alive... and they quickly adapt dumbshit and dangerous habits... like leaving their foot 1 inch above the tarmac as they accelerate to 60 kph.

I am a expert rider, a proficient rider, a skilled rider, and an aware rider. It's not that motorcycles are inherently more dangerous, it's just that if you do have a wreck, the consequences are usually worse. But motorcycles don't have to have more wrecks than a cage driver.

[x9200]

SE, SMS made some reservation remarks and with them I think what he said is true and applicable for all the swarms of the cheapo motorbike users. If you think riding it is pretty safe although there are some situation very difficult to handle. One of them is when it is raining and the traffic almost stops. Then many locals starts to act like monkeys jumping from lane to lane without much checking the motorbike traffic. Going like 30 only is not slow enough to avoid some nasty surprises and react on time. I had such nasty situation 2 weeks back nearly hitting one moron lady and losing traction after I made a sudden turn to avoid her. Managed to stay on wheels but it was pretty close.

[sundaymorningstaple]

SE, you will note that I made a distinct delineation between Motorcycle riders and motorbike riders. I also noted I used to ride a 750 here as well. It not motorcyclists I was referring to. I have never, and I seriously doubt that you have ever ridden between traffic lanes on that big Valk like our local bikies who think that the lane dividers mean the same as the do on a box of crackers. "Tear along dotted line!" Ride down the BKE at 6pm towards JB any workday.

[Strong Eagle]

SE, you will note that I made a distinct delineation between Motorcycle riders and motorbike riders. I also noted I used to ride a 750 here as well. It not motorcyclists I was referring to. I have never, and I seriously doubt that you have ever ridden between traffic lanes on that big Valk like our local bikies who think that the lane dividers mean the same as the do on a box of crackers. "Tear along dotted line!" Ride down the BKE at 6pm towards JB any workday.

SMS, I split lanes all the time. I've reversed my mirrors to make my big bike a bit 'thinner' in traffic.

I do have rules. Stopped traffic is an automatic lane split. Most expressways are good for splitting in slow traffic... one just needs to understand and observe traffic patterns. What I don't do is what the idiots do... ride in blind spots... give themselves 6 inches of clearance... you know who I am talking about.

It's a common sense thing, quite safe if common sense is executed, and beneficial to both bikers and cagers. If bikes could not lane split they'd simply add to the traffic congestion in any given lane.