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NS Deferment rejected

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Mad Scientist
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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 6:31 pm

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Last edited by Mad Scientist on Tue, 19 Oct 2010 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JR8 » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 6:40 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:
JR8 wrote:It's all bull.

Singapore forces can't and never will do anything. Conscription is just state 'conditioning' (er, read, more state conditioning).

The crap families go through, to abide by this chimera, this plastic lie...


JR8
I do not know what and why you are ranting about. In any case, I accept your view. I am not here to argue what the Gahmen did is right or wrong. My sole purpose is to provide avenues, if I can, for people that is stranded with issues that overwhelm them . that is all.
Conscription or otherwise many countries are implementing it. Some works , other don't.
Live and let live :)





No lah,


Your posts are extremely valuable. But I was just going randon OK? Nothing to do with you AT all :o

Sorry (hunched shoulders, wandering off now)....

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Hi Mad Scientist, you seem like the right guy to ask

Postby Stateless » Wed, 22 Sep 2010 8:47 pm

Hi Mad Scientist,
You seem like the right guy to ask for advise on NS. My wife (Singaporean) and I (Dutch) are expecting a son in January, but are running into some problems on NS and the Singaporean citizenship.

My wife has checked with ICA and they have informed her that our son will automatically get a Singaporean Citizenship, if she decides to give birth in Singapore. There is no possibility to avoid this.

As we want our son to make his own choice for his citizenship when old enough, we would really like to know how to go about it. We understood that the only wayto avoid problems, is to give birth in Hong Kong (where we now reside) and not register the birth in Singapore at all. However, as you can understand, my wife also feels disappointed if her son does not get a Singaporean Citizen option.

Thanks for your expert advise!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:16 pm

That one is a no brainer. If your wife wants the Singapore Citizenship for her son, he's got to do NS. Full Stop. Otherwise, do not register the birth with the Singapore Government. She has to think about the child's needs and not her wants. I was faced with a similar choice. My wife gave birth to both of our children here in Singapore. My son is coming up for his NS probably by the end of the year or early next year. But this way, he's got his choice which way he want's to jump once he's finished.

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Re: Hi Mad Scientist, you seem like the right guy to ask

Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 23 Sep 2010 4:46 am

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Re: Hi Mad Scientist, you seem like the right guy to ask

Postby Koalabear » Fri, 08 Oct 2010 9:45 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
Stateless wrote:Hi Mad Scientist,
You seem like the right guy to ask for advise on NS.

There are many who can help you here . SMS has given you one option which is probably the best one

My wife (Singaporean) and I (Dutch) are expecting a son in January, but are running into some problems on NS and the Singaporean citizenship.

My wife has checked with ICA and they have informed her that our son will automatically get a Singaporean Citizenship, if she decides to give birth in Singapore. There is no possibility to avoid this.

This is correct . No way going around this. Not in a million years

As we want our son to make his own choice for his citizenship when old enough, we would really like to know how to go about it. We understood that the only wayto avoid problems, is to give birth in Hong Kong (where we now reside) and not register the birth in Singapore at all.

This is possible. Funny thing is, I just help one forumer here on the same issue with SG and HKG. As long as one of you are of a Chinese descent , you can get HKG SAR citizenship. Remember SAR not China.
You need to read this
http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/topical_3_9.htm


However, as you can understand, my wife also feels disappointed if her son does not get a Singaporean Citizen option.

You can get it if she gave birth overseas and register his citizenship by descent. Read this http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=132
This alllows him to choose until 21 where the child needs to take Oath of Allegiance to Singapore or renounce.
On the flip side of the coin, once he took up SC as what SMS said he has to do NS when he turns 18. This does not eradicate the issue of choosing one nationality when he turns 21. SG only allows ONE Citizenship after 21
Alternatively if you do not wish him to do NS, this is what you do
1. DO NOT APPLY SG PP
2. DO NOT APPLY SG IC.
3. If child wants to be educated in SG , just have the right of entry stamped on his foreign PP so that he is allowed to live in SG, be educated here until the time comes where he has to choose which citizenship.when he turns 21. He can still enjoy susbidize SG education
4. Actually he can go for three citizenship as yourself is a Dutch.
5. If the child does not take Oath of Allegiance when child turn 21, he will lose his SG Citizenship


Thanks for your expert advise!


Do SAR citizens need work permit to work in China? Sounds like the child is entitled to work in China and Eurozone without restrictions if they go for the dutch/HK route. NICE!

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Postby Koalabear » Fri, 08 Oct 2010 9:58 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
JR8 wrote:It's all bull.

Singapore forces can't and never will do anything. Conscription is just state 'conditioning' (er, read, more state conditioning).

The crap families go through, to abide by this chimera, this plastic lie...


JR8
I do not know what and why you are ranting about. In any case, I accept your view. I am not here to argue what the Gahmen did is right or wrong. My sole purpose is to provide avenues, if I can, for people that is stranded with issues that overwhelm them . that is all.
Conscription or otherwise many countries are implementing it. Some works , other don't.
Live and let live :)


The army can't do anything but MFA can use the army as bargaining chip. At minimum you need something to hold off the invasion for three days to wait for the 7th fleet.

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NS Deferment rejected

Postby mimo » Wed, 09 Feb 2011 8:09 am

Hi Ms!

Just to update you, i have recently got approval for deferment for Ns up to age 21 pending renouciation. Thanks for your advise to all readers in similar situation. You have been a great help and given them the best advice for their own actions.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 09 Feb 2011 9:23 am

Congratulations! MS will be happy I'm sure. It's nice of you to come back to us here to give your stamp of approval. We all appreciate it. Good Luck.

sms

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Re: NS Deferment rejected

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 09 Feb 2011 2:17 pm

mimo wrote:Hi Ms!

Just to update you, i have recently got approval for deferment for Ns up to age 21 pending renouciation. Thanks for your advise to all readers in similar situation. You have been a great help and given them the best advice for their own actions.


This is definitely good news !! Good on you mate !! Well done after all the tribulations , you came out on top.

Please remember that from now till 21 if he decided to serve NS or if has a change of heart , you need to inform CMPB so that he will not lose his SG Citizenship
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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NS Deferment rejected

Postby mimo » Fri, 11 Feb 2011 7:27 am

Ms,
Thanks again for that info. As he is been issued EP till 17 and subsequently to 21 after registered for NS at 16.5 years old. He is now able to visit Singapore ( hopefully every year) to get a better feel & understanding and make up his own decision before or when he turn 21. I am in favour of him serving NS after Uni, but then its up to him to decide for himself. I have asked and was told mindef does not have any problems with his entry/exit Sin. as social visitor. still worried on this as i have read some threads for certain EP, it expire when you enter Sin. and got to reapply for EP on exit. Your input and advice is greatly appreciated.

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Re: NS Deferment rejected

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 11 Feb 2011 7:54 am

mimo wrote:Ms,
Thanks again for that info. As he is been issued EP till 17

Nope, Not 17 but 16 and 1/2 of from his birthday. You will get an extension on the EP till 21 from there.

and subsequently to 21 after registered for NS at 16.5 years old. He is now able to visit Singapore ( hopefully every year) to get a better feel & understanding and make up his own decision before or when he turn 21. I am in favour of him serving NS after Uni, but then its up to him to decide for himself.

That's THE PLAN. Just remember if he decides to serve NS, Do not make the pledge of Allegiance at 21/22 overlap

I have asked and was told mindef does not have any problems with his entry/exit Sin. as social visitor. still worried on this as i have read some threads for certain EP, it expire when you enter Sin. and got to reapply for EP on exit.

No worries, I have done that and gone thru and test the system years ago. Once you got the EP , you are good as gold. You can travel either with SG PP or Foreign one. I would be incline to go with the foreign one.
I have proof to that effect from ICA , Mindef and CMPB stating no issue at all to travel either one of the PP.

Your input and advice is greatly appreciated.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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NS Deferment rejected

Postby mimo » Fri, 11 Feb 2011 8:52 am

Hi Ms,
You just put my worries to rest.
Just checked the letter and it state clearly 17 and the date of 17 birthday as well.They might have change this since your time to allow time for the registering of NS at 16.5 and administration time for CMPB to issue new EP after receiving/processing of documentation of registering Ns.

Does it mean that if he wants to serve NS but retain foreign citizenship,then do not make pledge of Allegiance at 21/22?

Yes, will use foreign p/p as the letter stated that if found to have enjoyed S.C. privileges,his deferment will be revoke.I would presume that its like studies,consular assistance and etc. Not going to take chances.

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Re: NS Deferment rejected

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 11 Feb 2011 4:52 pm

mimo wrote:Hi Ms,
You just put my worries to rest.
Just checked the letter and it state clearly 17 and the date of 17 birthday as well.They might have change this since your time to allow time for the registering of NS at 16.5 and administration time for CMPB to issue new EP after receiving/processing of documentation of registering Ns.

Does it mean that if he wants to serve NS but retain foreign citizenship,then do not make pledge of Allegiance at 21/22?

Yes, will use foreign p/p as the letter stated that if found to have enjoyed S.C. privileges,his deferment will be revoke.I would presume that its like studies,consular assistance and etc. Not going to take chances.


Nope I checked with the family I helped and it stated as what I said before. Anyway it does not matter. This show CMPB and MINDEF can be bent on some ways if need be.


On your Q, NO he cannot do what you said. First of all he is born in SG. you can do what you suggest if he was born overseas and attain dual SG citizenship. For this case if he decided to serve NS then renounce SG, he will be allowed to attain employment in SG under EP. PR and regain SG citizenship will be impossible.

For your case if he has change of heart, served the NS then renounce OZ citizenship. OZ Gahmen allows you to renounce then regain under certain condition. Has been done before. Read
http://www.citizenship.gov.au/current/resumption/.
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A situation too late?

Postby mojobeng » Sat, 12 Feb 2011 1:20 pm

Hi, anyone can help me in this sticky situation?
My wife (OZ-malaysian chinese) and I ( Singapore) married in Singapore in early 1990’s. My son was born in Singapore 2 years later and my wife, an Oz citizen, who was on an employment pass then, registered him as OZ citiz and thus he has dual citizenship.

We returned with her to Australia permanently in 1993 when he was one and a half years old and had not returned apart from a few social visits. We now have 2 other children, all of them born in OZ plus another son. I am still Singapore but now converting to OZ citiz.

My son now 18 regards himself as primarily as OZ and does not intend to return to Singapore. He is now pursing Uni studies in OZ. He intends renounce his Singapore Citizenship at 21. He had not NRIC, schooling etc.

I did not inform CMPB at 13 or register at 16. No excuse as it was my own ignorance and stupidity as I did NS myself. In denial probably that maybe he might want to go back. Having read the blogs now, I now realised that we are probably in contravention of the enlistment act. Not sure what to do now?


Should we take the chance to approach CMPB? Is a fine a criminal offence barring entry to other life opputynities and visas?
Is there a chance he can still be deferred till 21 for renunciation if he comes forward or will he be jailed?
Is it better to take the chance and stay away in case they do not ever know? So far no letters or notifications.
Am I also liaible for not reporting or registering him and can I enter Singapore? Can I enter Singapore myself.
What about my other son who was born and grew up in OZ? Is he laible. I am in process of getting OZ citiz. He never had Singapore citiz


Thanks in advance.

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