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Global Citizen
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Postby Global Citizen » Tue, 18 May 2010 12:21 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:

The law doesn't prohibit classes that teach about the history of a particular ethnic group, as long as the course is open to all students and doesn't promote ethnic solidarity or resentment.

[color=blue]That quote is taken from the article that you linked. From my view, it would make sense to teach all students of the contributions of other races, not that race to the exclusion of others. It's only all encompassing education that you can educate all move forward toward the elimination of, or at least reduce, racism or create acceptance among the different ethnic groups.



That point is kind of moot now isn't it as they've removed it from the curriculum altogether. Timing is kind of suspect especially with the new immigration law taking effect. Why would it promote ethnic solidarity or resentment if these are documented facts in history? Do we discard the study of history just because it doesn't fit in with how we'd like to be perceived by other people? Should Jews in America also be prevented from studying the effects of the Holocaust on their people because it portrays the German Nazis in a bad light?

Why is it so wrong to learn about the individual contributions the Native Americans, African Americans and Mexicans have made in building America? Isn't it kind of ironic that the oppressors in history are the ones oppressing the studies? Isn't this America, the land of the free where everyone has the right to be heard and free speech abounds according to your constitution?
As to your second point, maybe if enough white students had expressed an interest in learning about Ethnic Studies, the course would have been open to them. But we'll never know now.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
So, CG, do you espouse that every state that has a Mexican Border have Racial Oriented Classes that are only available to member of that ethnic group or Country? You do realize, then, that we would have to have special classes for Indians (not American Indians as they have their reservations if they want a purely Indian Cultural immersion). For Germans, Poles, Russians, Scandinavians, Cubans in Florida and New York, and every other nationality that happens to immigrate to the US in large numbers throughout her history? How about Chinese? They are very strongly entrenched in US history having helped to build the railroads across that vast nation. It's a slippery slope.


I'm not espousing any such thing but if there are studies available to students to explore their particular history as an option, why not? Fact is these studies were already available and were a part of Arizona's schools curriculum and have only now been removed and I reiterate, the timing is suspect. This quote taken from the article.

Quote:About 1,500 students at six high schools in the district are enrolled in the program. Elementary and middle school students also are exposed to the ethnic studies curriculum. The district is 56 percent Hispanic, with nearly 31,000 Latino students.

Sean Arce, director of the district's Mexican-American Studies program, said last month, "It's a highly engaging program that we have, and it's unfortunate that the state Legislature would go so far as to censor these classes," he said.

Six UN human rights experts released a statement earlier Tuesday expressing concern about the measure. All people have the right to learn about their own cultural and linguistic heritage, they said.] End quote


sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Should the blacks have segregated school again? So that the can teach their version of the Slave Trade and their contributions to American? After what my country went through in the 1960-70's to eliminate that?


Their version of the Slave trade? Sorry but you've lost the plot here, SMS and I don't care for the insinuation period because you seem to be trivializing the struggle of African Americans and their role in history and slavery was a big deal whether you choose to recognize the fact or not. Nobody brought up segregation here but you and your country went through that because of the segregationist policies that were enforced by Whites against Blacks and which were pervasive in all aspects of their lives not just schools. Yes, even the simple right to a bus seat. re: Rosa Parks. It's quite obvious that the US still has a long way to go as far as race relations stand and even with a Black President at the helm, many Whites still have problems digesting this fact today as evidenced by this group who call themselves 'Birthers'. Their sole criteria for existence seems to revolve around conspiracy theories that question the legitimacy of his citizenship. :roll: Yes, even now more than one year after Obama being sworn in.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
When are the schools going to have time for reading, writing & 'rithmatic? If you come to America you should learn to speak American English, and learn American History with all the rest of the children and not to the exclusion of some.


No argument here about learning the language of the country. So what you're essentially suggesting is that kids can only handle reading writing and Math and a sanitized version of American History. Anyway this is only happening in Arizona and not in any other state, in a district which is 56 percent Hispanic, (that's right about half the population) I don't know if other states offer the same or similar options so you can rest easy. :-|

I find it interesting that you seem to be defending their action of removing a subject, a course of study, that hadn't ruffled too many feathers previously. They've only removed it because it's convenient for them to do so and it would go right along with the Immigration Bill that's been passed and one that many of the other states in your own country are decrying openly.

Anyways, you're entitled to your opinion just as I'm to mine. As an avid traveller, I can opt to vote with my wallet as far as Arizona goes and I have as many others have or will be doing so. The repercussions are already being felt.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... _burn.html[/b]
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 18 May 2010 7:06 am

Talk about missing the point or plot, you most certainly have. I said it all in the initial quote from the Huffington post. I have absolutely no qualms about teaching these courses or full history. BUT not to an exclusive group. It should be taught to all. It's funny, every time you get rebutted, you go off splitting hairs in order to avoid the truth of the statement. Catering to a specific group in a public school system is wrong. Tailoring a course around an ethnic group smacks of elitism. Americans are all the same in my eyes and therefore should receive the same education. I am not saying there aren't shortcomings in our educational system, but that the SAME education should be taught to all. If that means revisions of text books, so be it. But your really need to learn to read for actual meaning and not for spite.
:lol:

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Postby Global Citizen » Tue, 18 May 2010 8:28 am

Splitting hairs? So that's what you want to call it when I challenge points you bring up that's your prerogative. And you really need to think about what you're putting out there if you don't like being rebutted. As for the last point, I won't even dignify that with an answer. For what its worth, I enjoyed the discussion.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 18 May 2010 9:33 am

The only point I brought up was the fact that I though that ALL Americans should have the SAME subjects taught to ALL students. Whether or not my examples were 100% spot on is basically immaterial. So I'll ask you again. Do you stand by your remarks that kids should be fed different subjects depending on their ethnicity? (Especially if they are all "Americans" regardless of their race?) At least that is what it seems like you are saying. I really don't care what the "percentages of the class are Hispanic. As far as I'm concerned, they are AMERICAN and therefore should be treated like all other Americans. Nothing special. That was the point and you completely evaded it, you didn't rebut it at all.

Oh, as for the discussions, We've been doing it for close on 5 years, guess we either enjoy it or are just gluttons for punishment. :P

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Postby raden888 » Tue, 18 May 2010 6:56 pm

Hablo en Espanol, SMS?....Spanish will be the new English in the USA soon ... :wink:

I wonder when will we see a latino/latina or Chicano Presidente ... El Presidente!

Hey GC , Yeah, I know some Mexicans have been there for generations , hundreds of years too..like that dude Sol Trujilo ,ex CEO of Telstra. He screwed the company up, sacked thousands of employees and pocketed $30 million + and his parting gift was to label Australia as a racist and backward nation but hey thanks for the $30++ million for a dumb job...Okay this off topic but hey ho!

Its a slow day!

:P

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 18 May 2010 7:09 pm

"hablas espanol"

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Postby Asdracles » Tue, 18 May 2010 7:42 pm

"hablas español"

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 18 May 2010 8:22 pm

no tengo alt-164

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Postby earthfriendly » Wed, 19 May 2010 11:05 am

Global Citizen wrote:
earthfriendly wrote:ot;]
It is true that the illegals are taking away jobs from US citizens and not paying tax to help subsidize the public services they use. And illegals show their disrespect for the country's law by their presence. However restuarant bills, prices of food produce and services are kept low because we consumers are not paying for their benefits e.g. healthcare and livable salary. IMHO, it all evens out at the end of the day.


I don't know that they're actually taking away jobs that most Americans want or would be willing to undertake anyway. The prudent approach would be to go after the American employers who keep hiring them in the first place and who show blatant disrespect for their own country's laws.They need to fix that first. I really can't and don't blame the illegals as they're striving for a better future for themselves and their families and America was built on that very premise as the golden beacon of hope and liberty for a better life. Refer to my earlier posts above for a more detailed answer. There's an interesting article on all how of this impacts the food/restaurant industry. Worth a read.
http://blog.friendseat.com/how-does-imm ... -industry/


I understand the immigrants have to come to the US trying to seek a better life due to the lousy state of affairs back home, which they cannot change. But that does not give them the right to break another country's law. Although in this case, the employers are just as willing to break the law.

What Arizona is doing is just a spotty attempt as the illegals may just move to another state. The country needs a comprehensive immigration policy. Perhaps a guest worker program?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 19 May 2010 11:43 am

They already have it. Problem is enforcing it. It's the H2B visa.

http://www.visabureau.com/america/visa-work.aspx

The US need to crack down on errant employers. Until they do that, nothing is going to change.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 19 May 2010 1:19 pm

Looks like the Singapore public relations office works! It caught Geerang a highly qualified (glee) member! :roll:

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Postby richard III » Fri, 21 May 2010 7:28 pm

WOOW!!!!All I can say is that this kid geerang would have made a great Hitlers youth,


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