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Singapore, an amazing country thread

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

geerang
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Postby geerang » Fri, 14 May 2010 8:00 pm

k1w1 wrote:
geerang wrote:Yeah, Singaporeans are so poor that they only have an average wage of 4000 sgd/mth, have only 1 expatriate maid, air conditioner in every room, 50inch plasma tv, a 5 room executive flat, and hawker food that are so cheap you could kill yourself eating.


If only this were really true...

Geerang, Singapore has some fantastic qualities, but I don't think you've really discussed them, to be honest... The army really is not it. (Since when is a country measured by its army?)

The cultural mix definitely is a big positive point. The commitment to racial harmony is what makes that even better. The acceptance (and even adoption) of other each others customs, clothing, food etc among Singaporeans, and even among expats sometimes, is something I will really miss about this place when I leave.


4k sgd is the average wage in Singapore. Surely you do realise that Singapore is much richer than NZ and you should not impose your NZ standards of living here. And 1 out of 6 households do have an expatriate live in maid, take it from the BBC.
Sgporean in France for one year master degree. Back to Spore by 2011!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 14 May 2010 10:18 pm

geerang wrote:4k sgd is the average wage in Singapore. Surely you do realise that Singapore is much richer than NZ and you should not impose your NZ standards of living here. And 1 out of 6 households do have an expatriate live in maid, take it from the BBC.


Sadly, your information is grossly skewed as you are including all the highly paid foreign workers (expats). The median income per "Singaporean" household is 5K/mo. There are no statistics for the population as a whole as it is to easy to skew depending of the demographics you use. The Census figures are the best indicators of what "Singaporeans" earn. Considering that most Singapore family units have a minimum of two wage earners (possibly a lot more as the wimpy children continue to live at home so their maids can continue to wash their diapers up into their mid thirties) so considering a median family household with and average of 2 wage earners, that would put the average singaporean salary around 2500-3000/mo.

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Postby Global Citizen » Fri, 14 May 2010 11:53 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Global Citizen wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's a shame Singaporeans don't like sex. If they did, maybe the gahmen wouldn't have to import so much foreign talent.


Oh come off it, SMS! Unless you're speaking from personal experience on the home front of course, :mrgreen:

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Obviously not. I already have my requisite 2 kids and I'm not a Singaporean anyway! :P


I think just about everyone here is well versed with the fact by now that you're just a farm boy Yank who's been here a quarter of a century etc... etc... But the spouse is S'porean isn't she and you're saying S'poreans don't like sex and it does take 2 to tango does it not?? Having had the prerequisite 2 kids is not an indicator that you're still ahem *getting it on* if one were to go by your statement.

sundaymorningstaple wrote: There was a recent article in the local birdcage liner about the "exhaustion/workaholic environment here causing a decrease in the libido. So, in Singapore's case, it does have an bearing on whether or not they are getting laid regularly.


Stress and the prohibitive costs entailed in raising kids these days if you want to give them any sort of a decent education are more likely factors and far different from saying they don't like sex period.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If the families where producing 3 or 4 children, there would be sufficient manpower to be able to reduce the dependency on foreign "labour" in particular.


That would be ideal yes but if wishes were horses... at the very least the government recognises and acknowledges the issue and has taken steps to address the situation and immigration policies have been skewed in that direction for several years. What Singapore has done very well is regulate and account for her foreign labour in terms of issuing work permits, employment visas etc. A situation far better than what's been going on in your own backyard with your border "Mafia." As an aside, have you checked out what's been going on in Arizona lately? Shocking!
One man's meat is another's poison.

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Postby earthfriendly » Sat, 15 May 2010 2:26 am

Global Citizen wrote: As an aside, have you checked out what's been going on in Arizona lately? Shocking!


I am concerned that hispanics may be singled out for ID-ing and the room for abuse by law enforcement. The scarcity of resources and the competition for it is rearing its ugly head in this tight economy.

It is true that the illegals are taking away jobs from US citizens and not paying tax to help subsidize the public services they use. And illegals show their disrespect for the country's law by their presence. However restuarant bills, prices of food produce and services are kept low because we consumers are not paying for their benefits e.g. healthcare and livable salary. IMHO, it all evens out at the end of the day.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 15 May 2010 7:13 am

GC,

I won't bother to engage you on a whole bunch of crap that was written in an attempt to antagonize a pain-in-the-arse troll. Of course it's over the top. But also with a strong element of truth (the data is)

As for the Arizona thing, frankly, it's not shocking at all. When American Citizens are told they cannot work at Wal-Mart unless they can speak Spanish, in the USA, I think the laws need to be tightened up a whole lot more. I won't discuss the current state of the US politics as I no longer consider the US as the beacon of democracy and freedom. Due to the current state of the buffoons in Washington.

But the spouse is S'porean isn't she and you're saying S'poreans don't like sex and it does take 2 to tango does it not?? Having had the prerequisite 2 kids is not an indicator that you're still ahem *getting it on* if one were to go by your statement.


True. But most Singaporeans weren't brought up their entire lives on a British Military Camp like she was. That also why she speaks "English" as opposed to Singlish. So much so, that she's in constant demand by her employers to host their Golfing Functions and as you said, it's takes two to tango (so whether or not we do or don't get it on in our 60's isn't material as the production of offspring isn't normal then anyway. So, you are, as usual, just picking again, yeah! And as my daughter says, Mommy, TMI! :P

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 15 May 2010 7:32 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If the families where producing 3 or 4 children, there would be sufficient manpower to be able to reduce the dependency on foreign "labour" in particular.

Reduce, maybe, but doubt if significantly. Majority of jobs handled here by foreigners fall into two categories: unwanted by Singaporeans, and difficult to find qualified Singaporeans for it. 2nd category is in direct connection with the educational system.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 15 May 2010 9:46 am

x9200 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:If the families where producing 3 or 4 children, there would be sufficient manpower to be able to reduce the dependency on foreign "labour" in particular.

Reduce, maybe, but doubt if significantly. Majority of jobs handled here by foreigners fall into two categories: unwanted by Singaporeans, and difficult to find qualified Singaporeans for it. 2nd category is in direct connection with the educational system.


On the face of it I would tend to agree, but if you look at the underbelly, it was the quest of LKY to rebuild the infrastructure here in a hurry that is partially responsible for the mentality of today.

Unfortunately, you couldn't take a bunch of coolies and retrain them that fast. So, it was more expedient to bring in foreign labour to do the job rather than trying to train the local workforce to do it. They needed it "now" and not a couple of month/years down the road when local were "trained". This thrust found them with rapid growth in Construction Companies manned primarily by foreigners. Also, at the same time they build Jurong out of a swamp and the manufacturing industry was born. This generated jobs for the Singaporeans. Again, as the rapid growth outstripped the production of working bodies, the government started bringing in foreign workers in the manufacturing industries, allowing for those Singaporeans already there with experience to gravitate toward middle level jobs and the same time, gearing up the educational system to produce middle-level workers. The same has happened for virtually every industry in Singapore over the past 40 years. As Singaporeans got wealthier and more educated, they tended to shy away from "dirty" work altogether. Same for the service industries. Dirty work and services industries, a lot will say, is a cultural aversion. And, while that may be true, It didn't stop wave after wave of Chinese immigrants from coming here to work as coolies for the British East India Company did it. So to me that doesn't hold water.

But, yeah, today, an increase of fertility rates would not appreciably reduce the foreign labour dependency. Not and allow Singapore to continue to have good rates of growth. It's production has always exceeded the manpower base due to the importation of foreign labour. Unfortunately the PAP knows this, but also has to play to the locals who readily enjoy the fruits of the foreign workforce's labours, but don't want to acknowledge that the contribution has a flip side to it. The other problem is the misplaced belief that somehow Singaporeans are superior to all others. The only one I know who could rightly claim that is LKY himself, and it was he, who dragged this country screaming and kicking into the 21st century 44 years ago with his unwavering vision. He didn't always get it right, and he didn't always play fair, but he did always do it for the well being of Singapore. The stop at one policy and the other, the drive to train the workforce myopically into fixed channels to the exclusion of obtaining a well rounded education and a questioning nature were probably two of the worst mistakes he made. Although the second, an argument could be made that, had he not done it that way, the rapid growth could not have taken place. Again, from my point of view, it still could have, but it would have just meant more foreign workers sooner, if the same results were to be obtained.

It's a shame we don't have a crystal ball or some way of seeing a parallel universe where the initial parameters were set differently to see what might have been. :wink:

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Postby earthfriendly » Sat, 15 May 2010 10:47 am

geerang wrote:More reasons why Singapore is amazingly great. Singapore has the world's best airport, world's busiest port, world's most open economy and one of the most corruption free system in the world.


These are the positive attributes that make SG work.

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Postby earthfriendly » Sat, 15 May 2010 10:54 am

geerang wrote:Singaporeans are so rich that every 1 out of 6 household has a live in foreign maid. How many of you are working as live in maids here?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4790104.stm


Being a stay home mom without much household help, I can see how domestic helpers can be a blessing. However, if both parents are out working and childcare become the main responsibilities of the maid, it works against the kids. Studies have shown many negative impacts for kids not raised by their own parents. Just this morning on the radio, a British study found that kids who were left at daycare at a very young age tend to display more impulsive behaviours when they are older (around 15 ??).

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 15 May 2010 11:32 am

geerang wrote:Malaysia only has 28 million human beings, how can they get 62 million military eligible males? Singapore despite her small physical size actually has the top 30 standing army in the world today with the best equipments and planes. Singapore has around 500k military trained men (inclusive of 100k paramilitary). The Singapore Armed forces is bigger than the militaries of countries such as the Philipines, Japan etc. And it is almost as big as the British military.

All military observers will agree that the Singapore Armed Forces is bigger and more much more advanced than the Malaysian Armed Forces. Singapore: 400k men armed forces vs malaysia 150k men armed forces. Singapore has more planes, APCs, ships etc as well. And much better technology.

And what do you mean by "flag rank" officer? Can you at least learn the proper ranks before talking about the military? In Singapore there is no such "flag rank" officers. There are warrant officers and commissioned officers but non of them have a "flag" as their rank. What is the flag you saw?


GEERANG OR SHOULD I CALL YOU GARANG TAPI BODOH !!

I am a flag rank officer in the army. If you do NOT know what you are talking about , please go and suck your udder to keep quiet,
B4 you make all of us that did NS ashamed of your ranting and stupid remarks, go to the nearest rubbish bin and deep your head inside
Save us all the favour
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby QRM » Sat, 15 May 2010 12:36 pm

There’s no real point in having a dialogue with these types of “Brainwashed”
Last edited by QRM on Sat, 15 May 2010 1:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 15 May 2010 12:37 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:misplaced belief that somehow Singaporeans are superior to all others. The only one I know who could rightly claim that is LKY himself, and it was he, who dragged this country screaming and kicking into the 21st century 44 years ago with his unwavering vision. He didn't always get it right, and he didn't always play fair, but he did always do it for the well being of Singapore. The stop at one policy and the other, the drive to train the workforce myopically into fixed channels to the exclusion of obtaining a well rounded education and a questioning nature were probably two of the worst mistakes he made.

I don't think it was a mistake. I see it as a part of the process of this highly engineered society. Necessary part if one chooses this particular model. Singapore is very very lucky to have really clever ppl at the steering wheel, not only LKY. I don't really mind lack of democracy if the most important things are just done right.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 15 May 2010 12:49 pm

QRM,

I definitely agree! I wonder just how many latent time bombs they have they created! Like you mentioned. Also, last year it was the Indian feller in Australia who killed his roommate over what? the rental or something. With a baseball bat no less! It's probably a good thing that gun ownership is so rigidly controlled, I'd hate to see the damage that could be wrought in such a closely packed society, if a kid went off his rocker here after getting bad exam results. As it is now, they can't do too much damage except to themselves by jumping off the 14th story of an HDB flat unless they land on somebody instead of the ground.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 15 May 2010 12:56 pm

QRM wrote:This guy got a place to study in France, I am sure if the college read his post on this and no doubt other forums and saw his true colours they would wonder what have the let into to the campus?

I actually though his constant inclination towards the military things were a bit scary.

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Postby QRM » Sat, 15 May 2010 1:18 pm

x9200 wrote:
QRM wrote:This guy got a place to study in France, I am sure if the college read his post on this and no doubt other forums and saw his true colours they would wonder what have the let into to the campus?

I actually though his constant inclination towards the military things were a bit scary.


Not to mention 54 post over 2 days and I thought I was a sad case with over a 1000 post, at least that was spread over 5 years! :D


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