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Arrested for theft in singapore

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Vaucluse
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Post by Vaucluse » Thu, 06 May 2010 11:48 am

aster wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:What also baffles me is that on appeal your sentence can be increased. Weird one, that
I thought this was pretty common elsewhere. You're basically asking for a reevaluation so there is always some risk involved, otherwise it would make sense to appeal every single case possible as... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj4wcuo9Mgo
Not at all as widespread as you may think because not ever case can be appealed. There have to be certain factors in play for an appeal to be granted.
The appeal, when possible, is mostly applied for by the defendant/accused so I doubt that they would bring in new evidence which would be against their case.

I've not heard of appeals in 'western' countries that end up with the sentence being increased . . . the usual outcome of an appeal is simply that the appeal is rejected outright or the ruling upheld
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aster
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Post by aster » Thu, 06 May 2010 12:09 pm

Not sure about incarceration sentences, but I know people who have had their fines raised upon appeal for traffic offenses. They should have paid up but they decided to go and whine about it in court (all over again) only to see the judge almost double the fine. :)

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Post by x9200 » Thu, 06 May 2010 1:57 pm

Vaucluse wrote: The appeal, when possible, is mostly applied for by the defendant/accused
Prosecution appeals are pretty common. Not sure about the statistics.

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Re: Arrested for theft in singapore

Post by Mad Scientist » Thu, 06 May 2010 6:54 pm

crunkbabee wrote:Hello, a family member recently was charged with shoptheft. This is her second time getting arrested. First was an encounter at BHG and she was let off with a warning.

However 3 years later, she stole a phone. She returned the phone after to the owner and the owner called the police. Her reason in doing so was because she wanted to cover the last semester of her school fees. Her dad works odd jobs and her mom left her a year ago and she still has a brother who is studying thus times were hard for her.

Does any of you here knows what is the likely charges she will receive? she is currently 20 years old.Is there any possibilities for leniency due to her reasons? and the already returned it cus she felt guilty after that. Will she get a sentence or a fine? If so, how long and how much?

I could really use some help on this. Thank you :)
Ok , just called my friend in the police force.

1.Average penalty for theft which does not involved bodily harm or grevious injury to the victim is $1,000 or more or equivalent to 1 and half time the amount you took. This is first time offender

2. Average penalty for repeat offender of the same situation is 6 months jail and $3K to $5K or both depending the seriousness of the repeat offending and as per no.1

3. Third time incarceration period....

Next, mitigation plea by offender normally takes into consideration but if you are a repeat offender and the PP asked for deterrent sentence that's it you're done for

Next , the SG Law application is NOT the same as UK Law. Many has changed to suit the local . Social worker will only be involved for delinquent juvenile i.e below 16 years of age.
Once you are over that you are tried as an adult.

Most jail time for this crime is at Queenstown Remand Prison

I repeat average penalty and fine meted out by the judge.

Personally IMHO fine and jail time
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Post by Asdracles » Thu, 06 May 2010 7:02 pm

aster wrote:Not sure about incarceration sentences, but I know people who have had their fines raised upon appeal for traffic offenses. They should have paid up but they decided to go and whine about it in court (all over again) only to see the judge almost double the fine. :)

Not sure if this is the same system, but in Spain, if you get a traffic fine and you pay on the spot, you get a 50% "discount". If you don´t pay on the spot, and appeal, if your appeal is rejected you will have to pay the full amount.

Let´s call it discount for early payment or penalty for your appeal, that´s not so clear :?

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Post by Mad Scientist » Thu, 06 May 2010 7:08 pm

Asdracles wrote:
aster wrote:Not sure about incarceration sentences, but I know people who have had their fines raised upon appeal for traffic offenses. They should have paid up but they decided to go and whine about it in court (all over again) only to see the judge almost double the fine. :)

Not sure if this is the same system, but in Spain, if you get a traffic fine and you pay on the spot, you get a 50% "discount". If you don´t pay on the spot, and appeal, if your appeal is rejected you will have to pay the full amount.

Let´s call it discount for early payment or penalty for your appeal, that´s not so clear :?
In SG. crime is divided into two part.
Traffic Offense is a crime punishable by fine or jail or both

Major or excessive Crime as written in the law is like corruption etc which carries a heavier penalties and are more severe

So thieving is under the latter one

So..... you do not have discount for early penalty or payment for thieving
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Post by JR8 » Thu, 06 May 2010 9:00 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote: Funny thing, this mitigation plea business. I'd never heard of that until I came to Singapore. .
What also baffles me is that on appeal your sentence can be increased. Weird one, that

Why? That is entirely normal in 'appeal courts'. It is perhaps stranger that you think on appeal your sentence only gets reduced.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 06 May 2010 9:15 pm

JR8 wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote: Funny thing, this mitigation plea business. I'd never heard of that until I came to Singapore. .
What also baffles me is that on appeal your sentence can be increased. Weird one, that

Why? That is entirely normal in 'appeal courts'. It is perhaps stranger that you think on appeal your sentence only gets reduced.
I, personally, wouldn't 'appeal' to have my sentence increased. In fact, I daresay, I doubt if anybody has ever appealed their sentence to have it "increased" and if they did, then I would find that "strange". Now, the prosecution, that's another kettle of fish. :wink:

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Post by Strong Eagle » Thu, 06 May 2010 9:22 pm

JR8 wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote: Funny thing, this mitigation plea business. I'd never heard of that until I came to Singapore. .
What also baffles me is that on appeal your sentence can be increased. Weird one, that

Why? That is entirely normal in 'appeal courts'. It is perhaps stranger that you think on appeal your sentence only gets reduced.
The problem of course, is that the state is assumed to be 'perfect' in the prosecution of individuals. Therefore, the sentence arrived at is already perfect in the sense that it fits the crime.

The purpose of the appeal is to demonstrate that the government is not perfect, and thus, a sentence reduction can be offered. To say that the government can increase a sentence is to say that the government can be wrong, and even wronger upon appeal.

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Post by ozchick » Thu, 06 May 2010 9:24 pm

Would it help to get (if she can) a person of repute (a teacher, Church official, employer etc) who may be willing to testify to her difficult personal circumstances and /or otherwsie generally good character? Unless of course she's already done that .........
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Post by JR8 » Thu, 06 May 2010 9:29 pm

Ok well my experience of appealing in court, has always come with the warning that you could well make this situation worse.

It hasn't happened (as I am uber-prepared, but the warning is there)

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Post by Strong Eagle » Thu, 06 May 2010 9:32 pm

JR8 wrote:Ok well my experience of appealing in court, has always come with the warning that you could well make this situation worse.

It hasn't happened (as I am uber-prepared, but the warning is there)
Definitely not the case in the US. The defendant can appeal for reduced terms, the most the prosecution can do is appeal the appeal to return to the original sentence.

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Post by x9200 » Thu, 06 May 2010 9:51 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
JR8 wrote:Ok well my experience of appealing in court, has always come with the warning that you could well make this situation worse.

It hasn't happened (as I am uber-prepared, but the warning is there)
Definitely not the case in the US. The defendant can appeal for reduced terms, the most the prosecution can do is appeal the appeal to return to the original sentence.
Yep, this is what I found with uncle google but not for EU.

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Post by JR8 » Fri, 07 May 2010 2:45 am

Well that's interesting, irrespective of how counter-intuitive it might seem (to an EU citizen).

It seems that just about anybody and his dog is entitled to Legal Aid (the state funding your lawyers 'in the interests of justice') in the UK, so if we followed a similar theme, the appeal court would be a no-lose route to go down...

UK justice is weak and liberal enough without that I'd have to say...

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Post by ksl » Fri, 07 May 2010 12:28 pm

JR8 wrote:Well that's interesting, irrespective of how counter-intuitive it might seem (to an EU citizen).

It seems that just about anybody and his dog is entitled to Legal Aid (the state funding your lawyers 'in the interests of justice') in the UK, so if we followed a similar theme, the appeal court would be a no-lose route to go down...

UK justice is weak and liberal enough without that I'd have to say...
I think what one must contend with, is if the judge had a good day or not, when he handed out the sentence, he does have a yardstick, and if he thinks, you are contemptuous to appeal his judgement, when i feels he has been fair. he will increase the sentence. There are some mean judges around, don't get on the wrong side of them.....do your research! To avoid real bastards!
It seems that just about anybody and his dog is entitled to Legal Aid (the state funding your lawyers 'in the interests of justice') in the UK, so if we followed a similar theme, the appeal court would be a no-lose route to go down...
More difficult to qualify today! Only those on the welfare can get it, its income related and most repeat offenders, know the judges that well, they know when to appeal, or keep quite. For most its a holiday away from home and they learn more tricks of the trade inside. Crime does actually pay quite well for those delinquents, with no fundemental education

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