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Renouncing Singapore citizenship and HDB issues

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trout
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Renouncing Singapore citizenship and HDB issues

Postby trout » Sun, 02 May 2010 1:15 pm

Hi,

I'm renouncing my Singapore citizenship and my wife is keeping hers.
I'm wondering if we are still eligible to keep the HDB flat in our name or should i transfer it to her name? Or maybe just transfer everything to my parents name. Made anumber of calls to HDb and it seems like it's really up to the and base on "case by case" basis.
Has anyone face this situation before?
Would appreciate the insights of anyone who have gone through this.

Thanks!!

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Postby Splatted » Sun, 02 May 2010 1:21 pm

not too sure about this, but if you are planning on transferring to your wife you may need to check whether your wife has enough cpf to cover the amount you are 'withdrawing' from the hdb flat

Perhaps call HDB & ask what it would hypothetically entail if you wanted to proceed.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 02 May 2010 3:15 pm

You cannot transfer it all to your wife. You will have to have joint names in order to form a family nucleus so your wife and one of your/her parents or a child maybe, but it won't be allowed in her name alone. This could also run into a problem if you were to divorce as you would have no claim on the the flat should it be necessary. Also, unless there is an iron-clad will you could also have problems there as well. It's not wise to try the screw the CPF board by subterfuge as you will lose out in the end. It's been tried before and found wanting.

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Re: Renouncing Singapore citizenship and HDB issues

Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 02 May 2010 6:10 pm

trout wrote:Hi,

I'm renouncing my Singapore citizenship and my wife is keeping hers.
I'm wondering if we are still eligible to keep the HDB flat in our name or should i transfer it to her name? Or maybe just transfer everything to my parents name. Made anumber of calls to HDb and it seems like it's really up to the and base on "case by case" basis.
Has anyone face this situation before?
Would appreciate the insights of anyone who have gone through this.

Thanks!!


First of all, foreigner cannot hold HDB apartment.

Your HDB house is under joint name yourself and your wife.

If you are going to renounce, either you pass to your children or your parent.

Then you renounce. From previous experience with friends doing this way , this is the way they have done.

You have to do all this first b4 you renounce.This also involves mortgages as the holders of the apartment is responsible.

CPF and HDB is linked. If you have money in CPF and you somehow got fouled up by this arrangement, that is it you are done for and you can kiss your CPF goodbye as it will drag for years b4 they can release it.
What I do know is HDB needs two names to a household . Unless you are divorced or one of you pass on which is separated matter

To solve this issue is sell that house and buy a private apartment where foreigner is able to own. ie yourself and wife
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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 03 May 2010 7:15 am

Trout

Following up on this issue. please go to www.hdb.gov.sg

or this link for my infohttp:www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10326p.nsf/w/ChgOwnerAddOccupiers?OpenDocument#EligibilityCriteria

and this too

As a flat owner, you are allowed to change the holding type of your flat from joint tenancy to tenancy-in-common (in equal or unequal shares), and vice versa. The change of holding type is without monetary consideration, and by way of gift, on grounds of love and affection.

If you wish to convert the holding type of the flat or change the proportion of shares held in the flat, you can either appoint your own solicitors to act for you or you can engage HDB to handle the transaction.

Existing flat owners who are holding the flat under tenancy-in-common can also apply to change the proportion of shares held by them (without monetary consideration).

For tenancy-in-common, the shares of ownership of the flat must be in fractions of the same denominator and must add up to one. Other than the legal status of ownership of the flat, there is no difference in the housing policies governing the lease administration of HDB flats.

* Joint Tenancy
* Tenancy-in-common



Joint Tenancy

A joint-tenancy is a form of ownership where all co-owners have an equal interest in the flat, regardless of the individual owner's contribution to buy the flat.

In joint-tenancy, there is a right of survivorship. This means that upon the death of a joint-tenant, his/her interest in the flat will automatically be passed to the remaining co-owner(s), regardless of whether the deceased joint-tenant has left behind a Will.

Example:
Mr. A, Mrs. B (wife) and Mr. C (son) own an HDB flat as joint tenants. In the event of Mr. A’s death, the ownership of the flat will automatically be passed to Mrs. B and Mr. C.

Mrs. B & Mr. C will have to continue to service the monthly loan instalment unless the outstanding loan is paid up by the mortgage insurance arising from late joint-tenant's death.
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Tenancy-in-Common

Tenancy-in-common is a form of ownership where each co-owner holds a separate and definite share in the flat. However, all the co-owners are entitled live in the whole flat regardless of their share in the property.

There is no right of survivorship in tenancy-in-common. The deceased's interest in the flat does not pass on automatically to the remaining co-owner(s). Upon the death of a tenant-in-common, the deceased's interest in the flat will be distributed according to his Will (if any) or according to the provisions of the Intestate Succession Act.

The HDB's policies are based on similar lines, regardless of whether the flat is held under tenancy-in-common or joint-tenancy.
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Demise of Joint Owner

The remaining family or single occupier is allowed to retain the existing flat after the owner has passed away, provided:

o he/she is a Singapore Citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR)
o he/she is at least 21 years old
AND
o he/she satisfies HDB's prevailing eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat


Under joint tenancy, if one of the flat owners passes away, the deceased joint-tenant’s share or interest in the flat will be passed on to the surviving joint tenant(s).

For example, husband and wife (both above 21 years old) are holding the flat under joint tenancy. If the husband passes away, the surviving wife can take over the flat as the sole tenant, if she is a Singapore Citizen or SPR. If the lease had already been issued for the flat, a legal document known as the Notice of Death instrument will have to be prepared and lodged with the Singapore Land Authority (SLA) to allow the authorities to update the land records accordingly.

The surviving joint owner(s) may either appoint his own solicitor to act for him in the application or engage HDB's legal services by applying at the HDB Branch Office managing the flat.
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Postby trout » Mon, 03 May 2010 8:32 am

Thanks Mad Scientist!

I've spoken to HDB and they said my wife can still hold on to the HDb and I can transfer it to her name by filling a form. But she just need to top up the amount from my CPF contribution to the hdb with cash or bank loans.
The transfer comes with a stamp fee which is about 3% of the hdb value..pretty expensive and a rip off in my opinion.
The HDB is really just for my parents to stay in ....

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 03 May 2010 9:29 am

trout wrote:Thanks Mad Scientist!

I've spoken to HDB and they said my wife can still hold on to the HDb and I can transfer it to her name by filling a form. But she just need to top up the amount from my CPF contribution to the hdb with cash or bank loans.
The transfer comes with a stamp fee which is about 3% of the hdb value..pretty expensive and a rip off in my opinion.
The HDB is really just for my parents to stay in ....


Well.... I am not surprise by this. It is easy to get things that they want you to be part of but they are hell bent to make it difficult when you go the opposite way !!!

Wait till you receive the renounce paper and the withdrawal papers for your renounciation. Daunting and challenging for some
Again if you did not serve the NS you are OK but if you did , you have to serve three years of reservist in-camp b4 you can renounce.

Worse of all as we are living in the so called internet age and the gahmen agencies are all linked, to take three weeks or 2 months to process is just beyond me.

These all some of the tinny weenie bits of info that you have to be aware of.

Persevere and you will be rewarded .

MS
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Postby trout » Mon, 03 May 2010 10:44 am

Serve 3 years of in camp? Well i did my NS but have never been called back for reservist. Is this for real? I have never come across this before. It really sucks to be a singaporean male then!!
They shd bloody gave those who serve NS dual citizenship for the sacrifices made and stop this bs against singaporeans.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 03 May 2010 11:13 am

trout wrote:Serve 3 years of in camp? Well i did my NS but have never been called back for reservist. Is this for real? I have never come across this before. It really sucks to be a singaporean male then!!
They shd bloody gave those who serve NS dual citizenship for the sacrifices made and stop this bs against singaporeans.


Yeah its true. You and I we are in the same boat.

The problem is there are too many fine prints that we are not aware about and they keep on shifting the goalpost !!!.
Just for argument sake, how long ago did you completed your NS and may I know why they did not call you or you got yourself defer due to work

MS
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Postby trout » Tue, 04 May 2010 12:04 pm

I ORD in 94' and work in Singapore for about 3 years but never got called for reservice. I've since been travelling for work and have been deferring for the last 10 years. Hmmm...sounds like i need to seek more advice from you!

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Postby Splatted » Tue, 04 May 2010 3:59 pm

trout wrote:I've spoken to HDB and they said my wife can still hold on to the HDb and I can transfer it to her name by filling a form. But she just need to top up the amount from my CPF contribution to the hdb with cash or bank loans.
The transfer comes with a stamp fee which is about 3% of the hdb value..pretty expensive and a rip off in my opinion.


that's what I thought they would say. It's similar to my wife's situation, except she wasn't renouncing citizenship, and the other names were family members rather than a husband.

It's good that you got it from the horses mouth.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 04 May 2010 5:28 pm

trout wrote:I ORD in 94' and work in Singapore for about 3 years but never got called for reservice. I've since been travelling for work and have been deferring for the last 10 years. Hmmm...sounds like i need to seek more advice from you!


OK , so I guess you are about mid 30s now.
This is where the fine prints lies, since you have not serve any in-camp
1. check which you unit are you posted now. Usually you are in a holding unit of the brigade.Your chance is 50 - 50 to renounce
2. See if you are outposted to division, if yes, then you chance to renounce is good , I say 75%
3. If you are downgraded to Pes E, get a letter from CMPB to state that you are not required to serve any reservist anymore. This is the release letter . If you got this you are home free.
4. Alternatively keep on deferring and never step back to SG until you reach 40 on your birthday where you will receive the release letter automatically. If you come back , they might revoke and you have to serve NS in ONE GO at least three or four in-camp.
5. The question of your passport validity is a sticky issue. Either you do in overseas or on-line and get authorise letter to get it for you. It depends on your length of validity etc...

You might want to read this on the renunciation thing to support my earlier post

* A Singapore citizen of or over the age of 21 years and of sound mind who is about to become a citizen of another country may apply to renounce his Singapore Citizenship. However, the Government may withhold the registration of a declaration of renunciation-

a) if the declaration is made during any war in which Singapore is engaged; or

b) if the declaration is made by a person subject to the Enlistment Act unless he has

(i) discharge his liability for full-time service under section 12 of the Act;

(ii) rendered at least 3 years of reserve service under section 13 of that Act in lieu of such full-time service; or

(iii) compiled with such conditions as may be determined by Government.
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