Singapore Expats Forum

Another European county, Greece, goes bankrupt!

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

Plavt
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4289
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Tue, 25 May 2010 1:40 am

anneteoh wrote:
Bailing out seems to be the practice , including Britain where the govt's been bailing out bank after bank, hence reversing the captialist system into a communist one, while the banks in communist countries are reversing to capitalist independence of govt grips. Brown believes he's saved the world from collapsing altogether.


I have only one comment ...........................Bullshit!

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: Another European county, Greece, goes bankrupt!

Postby ksl » Tue, 25 May 2010 2:14 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
tkuanhoo wrote:European countries that went bankrupt in just the past 5 years alone ->

Greece, Hungary, Romania, Latvia, Belarus, Serbia, Moldova! Bulgaria, Portugal, Spain and Italy are looking shaky.

Why do European countries have a tendency of going bankrupt?


Possibly because they are doing a shitty job of balancing their budgets? But, it's not just a European phenomenon. Try South America, Africa, and Asia as well.

Having the Euro as a common currency is a problem because it eliminates the ability for a country to devalue its currency, thereby bringing bubble excesses back in line.
Only one problem with all those Countries, the lack of stability and laws controlling land. They should never have been let into Europe, now its just a bloody shambles and a free for all.

Many UK citizens have had their property and land repossed in Spain, because it was sold off illegally.

User avatar
Vaucluse
Director
Director
Posts: 3443
Joined: Sun, 10 Jul 2005

Postby Vaucluse » Tue, 25 May 2010 8:29 am

Plavt wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
Bailing out seems to be the practice , including Britain where the govt's been bailing out bank after bank, hence reversing the captialist system into a communist one, while the banks in communist countries are reversing to capitalist independence of govt grips. Brown believes he's saved the world from collapsing altogether.


I have only one comment ...........................Bullshit!


She does talk some crap at times . . .
......................................................

'nuff said Image

User avatar
ScoobyDoes
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1649
Joined: Wed, 29 Nov 2006
Location: A More Lucky Spot

Postby ScoobyDoes » Tue, 25 May 2010 9:27 am

richard III wrote:Good point Scooby, I wouldnt debate the german problem as I do not have the info as if germany bent the rules...I doubt it though, since its numbers have been sound all this time even when they had to pull east germany kicking and screaming all the way into the market system. I believe though that politics should stay out of the picture, which is doubful, it may even cost Merkel and her party the next term.....as for the states, no doubt they are quick to respond, they learned the lesson in 1929, even though I do not agree with their way of reacting, socialists when they are losing money but when things are good, they are the epitome of capitalism.....but then again, was there a better solution?...as papandreu, looks like obama will pay for the previous goverments sins.



Taking politics and Germany, late last night the Financial Times editorial came up with quite a good study. The first part is:



Binding former enemies together in a common currency was Europe’s historic political achievement. Today those ties are being tested as never before. The euro is not yet on the verge of disintegration. But greater statesmanship is needed to stem the erosion of political support.

Monetary union was always as much a political as an economic project. So it is today. If the euro is under threat, it is not from economic challenges, whether sovereign defaults or a plummeting exchange rate. The euro has successfully buttressed the single market by eliminating currency volatility and competitive devaluations. The risks to its survival are political – and even those risks can be overstated. There are powerful forces holding the eurozone together: there is no way to expel a member; political leaders are still committed to staying in; and even if they wanted to, leaving would be costly.

But the strains on the single currency are severe. If its leaders want the euro to survive, they must forge a new political bargain in place of the one that made its birth possible. Germany gave up the Deutschmark in return for the rest of Europe pursuing more German-style discipline. This understanding was to be safeguarded by three pillars: an independent, inflation-busting European Central Bank; a stability and growth pact mandating fiscal prudence; and a ban on bail-outs. Of these only the first is still standing, and even ECB independence is wobbling.

States, including France and Germany, wriggled out of the pact’s strictures. Governments recoiled from punishing one of their own. The pressure for restraint when times were good was lost. Excessive public borrowing was not the only cause of the debt crisis: Spain is under siege despite its surpluses before the crisis and lower public debt than Germany. But the failure of discipline delayed reforms needed for sustainable growth. Huge capital flows across the continent could have eased such changes; instead they financed consumption binges and wasted investment.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Wed, 26 May 2010 9:35 pm

Huge capital flows across the continent could have eased such changes; instead they financed consumption binges and wasted investment.
Sounds like good labour policy to me, with a touch of political communistic get rich quick schemes, no doubt we will see more UK football clubs taken over soon :lol:

Why on earth these Countries were not vetted more closely before they were admitted into Europe, another political and naive cock up. If the world has super famous con artists like the one in the US, that ripped off the stock market punters, how easy is it to con Europe, Greece have done more than once with the Euro subsidies.

The integrity of politicians, lawyers and bankers around the world must be at an all time low today!

My guess is that we will see the stock market fall quite a way yet, due to no confidence in the higher echelons of the governments and financial sector, which may cause another step backwards into recession.

Though the US$ will still lead in trade, the superiority of the west and the US is shifting more quickly than anticipated...I have this theory that the collapse of Russia had a systematic effect on the rest of Europe, milked of its wealth through crooked governments that joined Europe in a race for one currency.


MMmmm! no fish biting today :lol: almost 2 hrs :cry:

earthfriendly
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1828
Joined: Sat, 20 Aug 2005

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 27 May 2010 4:02 am

ksl wrote:If the world has super famous con artists like the one in the US, that ripped off the stock market punters, how easy is it to con Europe, Greece have done more than once with the Euro subsidies.



The con artistes are all over the world and the fact that Madoff got a lot of press due to the large sum of money involved. He is charistmatic and able to win people over with his talk. And then clients would refer their friends and relatives to him. It just take one person to not do the due deligence and start spreading the untruths for a domino effect.

SEC has visited hiS company 6 times out of 12 (or 10) years. And yet they did not detect it? Were SEC staff easily charmed too and did not believe someone of his stature would committ fraud? Madoff himself was surprised that he was not caught earlier (thus ending his own misery for having to continue the coverup?) as he had "too much credibility" with SEC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33560855/

We need to breed people who exercise independent thinking and not afraid to use their intellect. We have to start with the kids. Get them when they are young.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Thu, 27 May 2010 1:01 pm

earthfriendly wrote:
ksl wrote:If the world has super famous con artists like the one in the US, that ripped off the stock market punters, how easy is it to con Europe, Greece have done more than once with the Euro subsidies.



The con artistes are all over the world and the fact that Madoff got a lot of press due to the large sum of money involved. He is charistmatic and able to win people over with his talk. And then clients would refer their friends and relatives to him. It just take one person to not do the due deligence and start spreading the untruths for a domino effect.

SEC has visited hiS company 6 times out of 12 (or 10) years. And yet they did not detect it? Were SEC staff easily charmed too and did not believe someone of his stature would committ fraud? Madoff himself was surprised that he was not caught earlier (thus ending his own misery for having to continue the coverup?) as he had "too much credibility" with SEC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33560855/

We need to breed people who exercise independent thinking and not afraid to use their intellect. We have to start with the kids. Get them when they are young.


Yes i do agree, the world as had a great deal of scandal in the top ranks of almost every profession, and the Duchess of York, paints a picture of poverty with a settlement of 15k.
:???: me how she managed to get so little out of Andy :lol: Looks like she was held to ransom on that divorce settlement. (News of the World material maybe)

I don't think the worlds problems will be over for a while, though i do see Asia pulling away from the pack in terms of growth and superiority, the nuclear threat is a real possibility with so much corruption going on in Countries that have the capability.

Western Countries have poked their noses into the fires of hell, and the devil will not rest. The world really does need to pull together!

Terrorism is a losing battle and takes enormous amounts of resources, it's never ending but can be diplomatically resolved for a time like the UK 30 years, before they gave them a voice in politics, though what goes on behind the scenes at grass root level is something else.

The middle east as always been a tinder box, most of the eastern block Countries are unstable.
Disgraced financier: Regulators ‘never asked’ for basic operational records
We also see the credibility dwindle in the legal sector too, in Singapore we have seen at least 4 lawyers on the wrong side of the law, credibility is a nervous wreck on the bottom of the sea bed.

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+Ne ... 10632.html

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNew ... 05057.html

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show ... theft.html

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNew ... 78730.html

To think tenants worry getting their deposits back :cry: what's the world coming too :roll: not much integrity around these days, it appears ego's and greed is a problem. Sad situation with a price to pay!

User avatar
ozchick
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri, 21 Sep 2007
Location: Germany

Postby ozchick » Thu, 27 May 2010 5:57 pm

raden888 wrote:so which is the next EU country to fail? The derivative traders lost their bet on Greece..Billions were exchanged on assumption that Greece won't be bailed.

Portugal next?


Does it matter? I'm getting more Aussie dollars for my Sg dollar ever since this whole Euro slide began. It's great! And when I get to Deutschland I'll do very well with my Sg dollar there as well yeah?!
It's truly wonderful for yours truly. But I know that I shouldn't be rejoicing....so - "yay"! :wink:
'Are you trying to tempt me because I come from the land of plenty?'

earthfriendly
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1828
Joined: Sat, 20 Aug 2005

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 03 Jun 2010 1:02 am

http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/02/news/co ... s_hearing/




In some instances, certain analysts were blocked from participating on new deals at a banker's request out of fear that they might not assign the new security the coveted 'AAA' rating.

Higher-ups in the company also allegedly employed a variety of techniques to grease the wheels in the mortgage rating process, including understaffing the residential mortgage rating group so analysts could not look at any single deal too closely.



"When I left Moody's, an analyst's worst fear was that he would do something that would allow him to be singled out for jeopardizing Moody's market share, for impairing Moody's revenue or for damaging Moody's relationships with its clients and lose his job as a result," said Froeba, who is scheduled to appear before the commission later in the day.





"The focus on market share inevitably lead to an inability to say "no" to transactions," said Eric Kolchinsky, a former managing director within Moody's derivatives division, in prepared remarks before a hearing of the Financial Crisis Inquiries Commission in New York.

"While there was never any explicit directive to lower credit standards, every missed deal had to be explained and defended," he added.


I used to have a lot of faith in highly coveted companies. Reading stories like this one, short cuts taken by BP resulting in the oil spill, initial downplay by Toyota regarding the car acceleration, Goldman Sach betting against the very product that they promote to their own customers, suicides in Chinese factory that manufacture hi tech goods like Apple Iphones. And these are supposedly well run operations.

Who can I trust now :( ? Do businesses have to go down this path?

earthfriendly
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1828
Joined: Sat, 20 Aug 2005

Postby earthfriendly » Thu, 03 Jun 2010 3:28 am

As the story unfolds. This is so disappointing. Just reinforce my believe that each one of us, individually, have to do our own due diligence and exercise indepedent thinking. I only started paying attention to financial news in last few months. I am a bit shaken by what I see.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010 ... al-inquiry

The US commission's chairman, Phil Angelides, cited figures suggesting that 83% of mortgage securities given an AAA rating by Moody's in 2006 were subsequently downgraded, while 89% of home loan packages granted an investment-grade rating in 2007 were later reduced to junk status. "The miss was huge," said Angelides. "It was 90% downgrades. Even the dumbest kid in class gets 10% in an exam."Moody's chief executive, Ray McDaniel, apologised for his firm's conduct, admitting it had been "deeply disappointing".

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3447
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 03 Jun 2010 4:39 am

earthfriendly wrote:As the story unfolds. This is so disappointing. Just reinforce my believe that each one of us, individually, have to do our own due diligence and exercise indepedent thinking. I only started paying attention to financial news in last few months. I am a bit shaken by what I see.


Nothing suprise me if you have lived that long. History tells it all, in SG , DBS was the underwriter for Lehmand Brothers and it failed. DBS and the Gahmen runs for cover until there is no CB leaves to cover. End up they have to front up. BUT how many of those that loss money managed to get anything at all. Mums and Dads saving all gone down the drain. STRICT CONDITION were set for those that wish to have a recourse with DBS which proves to be very difficult.

Another eg, remember NKF and the peanuts for monkey. TT Durai and the former PM wife was so adamant that NKF and TT was doing fine job until the GOLDEN TAP brought him down. Again TT and the Gahmen went for cover. TOOK them a whole three days to get an explanation from the Gahmen.
What a shamble as NO ONE Dares to admit mistake on their part until the pooh is right up their nose and eyes that they cannot hold their breath anymore.
Wait when election comes, ONE HAND WILL GIVE THE HANDOUT and THE OTHER WILL TAKE IT BACK .
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

User avatar
Vaucluse
Director
Director
Posts: 3443
Joined: Sun, 10 Jul 2005

Postby Vaucluse » Thu, 03 Jun 2010 11:07 am

Mad Scientist wrote:Another eg, remember NKF and the peanuts for monkey. TT Durai and the former PM wife was so adamant that NKF and TT was doing fine job until the GOLDEN TAP brought him down. Again TT and the Gahmen went for cover. TOOK them a whole three days to get an explanation from the Gahmen. .


I remember the furor about the 'peanuts' comment . . . but nothing happens . . . The arrogance shown by her at the time was simply astounding.

Divorced from reality
......................................................



'nuff said Image

raden888
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon, 08 Feb 2010

Postby raden888 » Thu, 03 Jun 2010 12:49 pm

@earthfriendly, That what happens when greed takes control. I recall when the 'young' banker from Societe Generale made the wrong 'bet' on the German Stock Exchange....There was some initial reporting but don't know what happened in the end. :???:

I guess we never learned from the whole ENRON saga.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests