Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

[raden888]

...I wonder if Tony Blair is having a good chuckle at this! so now looks like Nick Clegg is the front runner!

[ksl]

...I wonder if Tony Blair is having a good chuckle at this! so now looks like Nick Clegg is the front runner!

You can bet Blair is laughing his socks off, god what a sleeze ball he is, arse hole creeper, though that's the way for quick promotion.

Astrology character Blair is a Bull( fixed, earth, personal) and a good con artist big ego
Brown on the other hand is Aquarius (The Water Carrier) (fixed, wind, universal) Unique and difficult to understand what they are talking about. They have a unique perception of life, that others don't have, but are complex

Maggie Thatcher Libra (The Scales) (cardinal, wind, social): more in touch with people and values, well balanced and decisive,

John Major Aries (The Ram) (cardinal, fire, personal) Outspoken and direct ego centric

Winston Churchill Sagittarius (The Archer/Centaur) (mutable, fire, universal) The warrior and strategist can blend in with the enemy.

It will take a Leo to get it right! Nath 21 what are you?

It will take a Scorpion or a Lion to get it right....both conscious of democratic values, though one fire and the other water, with the additional positive variables you have winners, negative variables you have losers, both strategists and thinkers for peoples rights. But not good for the monarchy

Scorpio (The Scorpion) (fixed, water, social):
Lion (The Lion) (fixed, fire, social):

[sundaymorningstaple]

ksl, I've got some crystal pyramids you can consult if you run out of astrological and the Chinese zodiac. Think I've also got a old deck of tarot cards I'll throw in as well.

[Addadude]

ksl, I've got some crystal pyramids you can consult if you run out of astrological and the Chinese zodiac. Think I've also got a old deck of tarot cards I'll throw in as well.

I prefer studying entrails myself - preferably politicians' entrails!

[ksl]

ksl, I've got some crystal pyramids you can consult if you run out of astrological and the Chinese zodiac. Think I've also got a old deck of tarot cards I'll throw in as well.

I prefer studying entrails myself - preferably politicians' entrails!

I'm keeping myself amused on a boring day, with the wife and daughter in Taiwan, i have another 6 days to get through This is me by the way

http://astrocenter.astrology.msn.com/ms ... d=20080729

Though the topic is surprisingly interesting, I don't expect much change to happen in the UK, until Guy Fawkes gets it right (A figure of speech of course) Why live in the dark ages for so long I will never know!

The extreme immigration of eastern Europeans may have a positive end for the better, breaking down the society and building a new, is just part of the cycle of evolution and migration, it could also cure many unsolved political agendas, everyone is looking for democracy except those in real power to deliver it! The scary thing is, a copy cat of Rasputin or a Putin
The UK is well and truly infiltrated by many with motives, though the house is still partying drinking PG tips with the chimps!

Or do i have to remind you what happened in Singapore, with all the guns pointing in the wrong direction ha! Leadership how

[anneteoh]

ksl, I've got some crystal pyramids you can consult if you run out of astrological and the Chinese zodiac. Think I've also got a old deck of tarot cards I'll throw in as well.

I prefer studying entrails myself - preferably politicians' entrails!

I'm keeping myself amused on a boring day, with the wife and daughter in Taiwan, i have another 6 days to get through This is me by the way

http://astrocenter.astrology.msn.com/ms ... d=20080729

Though the topic is surprisingly interesting, I don't expect much change to happen in the UK, until Guy Fawkes gets it right (A figure of speech of course) Why live in the dark ages for so long I will never know!

The extreme immigration of eastern Europeans may have a positive end for the better, breaking down the society and building a new, is just part of the cycle of evolution and migration, it could also cure many unsolved political agendas, everyone is looking for democracy except those in real power to deliver it! The scary thing is, a copy cat of Rasputin or a Putin
The UK is well and truly infiltrated by many with motives, though the house is still partying drinking PG tips with the chimps!

Or do i have to remind you what happened in Singapore, with all the guns pointing in the wrong direction ha! Leadership how

Some politicians make some people so sick that they turn to ridicule. If Guy Fawkes succeeded, we'll be stuck in the middle ages - or feudalism as China sees it.
The latest in the hung parliament election, I heard, is that Labour pulled out of talks with Nick Clegg. Brown resigned - I'm always putting my sincere bet on the wrong thing. Hope that won't be expensive for the rest of the country. We thought thre's going to be a Lib-Lab coalition.
Nick Clegg seems like a young shoot in an old jungle. He obviously, like Brown, is sensitive to public opinion and media pressure. I noticed the BBC news presenter, Sian, was extremly biased in her favour towards the conservatives. Who said the BBC is unbiased? I'm not comfortable at all with a Tory-Lib Dem govt. It's like a marriage between democratic socialism and free thinking with capitalist materialism with sbsolute control.
Well, whoever you vote for becomes the next government. Pity, it was really stress free those few days, to be without.
I was rather excited by Brown's anti-bigotry; but now, like many ardent post-modernists, I'll sink in political apathy and turn, not to crystal bowl readings but the mountains.

[raden888]

Yay! David Cameron is PM ......However, don't think he can do much as Britain is doomed. I think they need the PAP to sort out their mess!

[anneteoh]

Ten reasons why Uk is in trouble:
1. went from an oil exporter to oil importer,
2. lost its manufacturing export base which saw it lead the industrial revolution;
3. currently 6 out of 10 people employed by the public service;
4. 40% of GDP comes from the financial services industry which is in a
big hole;
5. UK failure to stop unfunded pension plans;
6. Use and encourangement of UK based tax havens for tax avoidance by high income individuals;
7. attendace at war it cant afford;
8. Amount of money the government has to fund just to service debt;
9. Close election wont enable another party to fix any of this; and
10. Labor in government for too long overseeing these outcomes and policies

David Cameron stepped in as the new PM last night - how casual it sounds, for major governmental tranfers to take place in the evenings. In fact, for an hour or so there was a power vacuum - all too well for apolitical people but not good enough for serious voters and national security. But the Queen was there of course.
Cameron gave his own speech, no poetic lines or literary pretensions there, just something straight from his heart; and unlike Brown, without the need for reading from notes. He put in place a coalition government with Nick Clegg and the Lib-Dems. He mentioned a few immediate reforms :-
1. a cut of 6 billion to stave off national debt
2. an amnesty to stop non-EU immigration
3. a guarantee that the poor (makes it seems that most of us are poor
over here) i.e. those with average income less tha 10,000 pounds, will
not be taxed
4. reform of the outdated election system.

I was hoping for a Lib-Lab coalition primarily as that would ensure proportional representation for the first time in world politics - the SNP ( Scottish National Party) the Irish and Welsh Parties and Lib-Lab with the Cons as opposition. Brown was not in an agreebale mood to deal with Clegg - Labour pulled out of the initial talks. That's a sign of a deadlock so when Brown resigned, he inivited in the other alternative; which is for the better as they can talk and agree on most matters. Let's hope everyone's got their plans ready in this extremely short notice takeover.
Isn't it an incredulous way to ensure continuity and national stability?

As one can see, the reforms spelt out are big national issues affecting the British democratic system and way of governing. I'm not sure about the charitable words for the poor - is that outdated too, when one thinks about Marxism and the right to ownership of the means of production?
Is the new Br Govt able to change Britain into a more equal society via peaceful, democratic means?

Re the production of oil and the economy - I believe those are caused by elements beyond our control. BP are digging new oil wells - one in the Falklands is contested by the Argentinians but I concede it's part of British
Falklands; the other in the Gulf of Mexico is losing gargantuan sums due to spillage, weather conditions and American claims. Does the govt have shares or a stake in BP or is it a private company?

Britain invested heavily in Iceland, but she gets nothing back and a flat refusal by Iceland to pay back too. Then there's the Icelandic volcanoes, and the debt crisis of many European countries, not to say the fradulent investment funds set up by some crooked financiers, Americans and British alike? Had not Brown done his best in the face of such unforeseen disasters, - ditching in to save the banks, avoiding extreme jobs cut and ensuring stability in the face of...?
But I agree that on home grounds, the economy was ill thought out in the ways pointed out above. Some service industries do bring in lots of income e.g. tourism and such like, but it's the social services, including the NHS - they need to look into making these behemoths self- funding.

That's why the PAP can help out, I suppose.

Finally, much as I agree that something must be done about immigration, it's racist of the new government to use the term "non-European," mainly due to the fact that many Commonwealth citizens are non-Europeans but they are closer to the British system than , say, the Albanian, Czechs, Slovaks or Romanians, unless these also run in the mixture of blue blooded marriages.

I heard from a Nigerian that many Nigerians, who are corrupted in Nigeria, bring most of their money to Britain. It should not be ignored that some immigrants enrich Britain with their weath and professional skills - these should be welcomed. It doesn't make sense to allow the gypies, the jobless, the criminals, - who auctioned the sales of young girls at Heathrow, as someone pointed out ( incredulous - at Heathrow!) and the uneducated and unskilled; not to say, those potential suicide bombers with hate in their heads, to come in regardless of their ethnicity or background. Is any country able to control immigration at all these days?

That was the case - though it makes one sympathise with kind Britain - for these people have more rights than poor British because they had nothing. So the penniless immigrants get housed, social welfare, schools, NHS etc. That's how the national debt accrued. The irony is those who'd lived, worked and paid taxes here all their lives, get pushed to one side as their needs are not as great as the immigrants'. That would be one way socialism, however charitable, can fail badly.

I believe there'll always be problems in running any country and I would question the short-termism of any political system. How long did it take a humungous country like China to turn around, and how much more does the ruling party still need to improve? I believe it took the PAP over 50 years to get Singapore from the shanty town the colonial office left, to get to the cutting edge status she now has worldwide.

[Plavt]

6 Billion out of the economy = more unemployment and lost homes, fewer taxpayers.

More unemployment = more claims for benefit.

More claims for benefit = more cost to taxpayer.

Problem: The fewer taxpayers the less money for benefits, the UK is already shelling out more in benefits than if receives in taxes so where will the extra cash come from?

Stop EU immigration = stop the availability of workers the UK needs!

No tax under £10,000 sounds nice but if the rents go through the roof as a result of his likely spending cuts in the public sector then the poor will probably gain nothing.

Reform the electoral system, oh yes it needs reforming but from what I can see if he gets his way only to benefit him and his cronies, I don't see why any government should be there more than 4 years.

Equal and stable society? All words again I don't even want to think about the social unrest his policies will generate.

[ScoobyDoes]

The funny thing is that David Cameron, in his first speech as PM sounded more "New Labour" than even New Labour did.

[Plavt]

The funny thing is that David Cameron, in his first speech as PM sounded more "New Labour" than even New Labour did.

Focus on sounded....

[anneteoh]

6 Billion out of the economy = more unemployment and lost homes, fewer taxpayers.

More unemployment = more claims for benefit.

More claims for benefit = more cost to taxpayer.

Problem: The fewer taxpayers the less money for benefits, the UK is already shelling out more in benefits than if receives in taxes so where will the extra cash come from?

Stop EU immigration = stop the availability of workers the UK needs!

No tax under £10,000 sounds nice but if the rents go through the roof as a result of his likely spending cuts in the public sector then the poor will probably gain nothing.

Reform the electoral system, oh yes it needs reforming but from what I can see if he gets his way only to benefit him and his cronies, I don't see why any government should be there more than 4 years.

Equal and stable society? All words again I don't even want to think about the social unrest his policies will generate.

Understand your concerns, Plavt. I guess I'm a diehard hopeful
who believe in giving everyone a chance to prove themselves. I'm paying whatever tax I have to pay via PAYE which is more tax than the umbrella companies my employers suggested. It's a piffle, but I'm too lazy or stressed out to bother about paying less. Besides, there're still a lot of good things in the system that's based on propriety, manners, tolerance and kindness.

I'm not a racist, but I agree with stopping the Eastern European and unskilled immigrants ; and ensuring those already here with these conditions:
1. they pay taxes like everyone else
2. they do not send their money back to their own countries
3. they have to pay sufficient contributions before they can get benefits, health care, housing, free transportation for kids and over 60s.
4. they believe and uphold British values, culture and democratic system.
I believe the Lib-Dems will see to it that the cuts on public spending are not overly drastic. You might be right, and I can't ignore that the new PM and his deputy are very young and ambitious; but they might have their hearts in the right places. And Gordon Brown'll be in the background, helping out - ( has years of experience ) esp. if he works for IMF.
I guess everyone can see that Now and More than ever, the Brits' got to work together; regardless of its homogenuity or not. I, for one, would like to see greater ethnic representations that will link the old empire in the post-modernist world of adjusted values.

[Plavt]

I'm not a racist, but I agree with stopping the Eastern Europeans and unskilled immigrants ; with these conditions:
1. they pay taxes like everyone else

Who says they don't? Recent renovation work where I live has been done by good number of Romanians who don't work for less than Britons and a good many Poles live here too who also pay taxes.

2. they do not send their money back to their own countries

Why shouldn't they? We do the same given the opportunity.

3. they have to pay sufficient contributions before they can get benefits, health care, housing, free transportation for kids and over 60s.

Perhaps you believe some of the media-hype; a good number of immigrants aren't entitled to benefits unless they have been here X number of years. Although there is probably some substance in what you say, I have to admit I don't know the full details since I'm not an immigrant.

The only good thing I can see at the moment is Cameron can't get his own way on every issue, only time will tell of course.

[anneteoh]

Who says they don't? Recent renovation work where I live has been done by good number of Romanians who don't work for less than Britons and a good many Poles live here too who also pay taxes.

Hard to say, some do but not all pay taxes; esp. those in businesses or privately employed e.g. cleaners, builders, plumbers, waiters etc

2. they do not send their money back to their own countries

Why shouldn't they? We do the same given the opportunity.
If 200,000 send 50% of their money back, there'll be less left for circulation in the country.

3. they have to pay sufficient contributions before they can get benefits, health care, housing, free transportation for kids and over 60s.

Perhaps you believe some of the media-hype; a good number of immigrants aren't entitled to benefits unless they have been here X number of years. Although there is probably some substance in what you say, I have to admit I don't know the full details since I'm not an immigrant.

I didn't get this from any direct source but from what I SEE going around me. I know very well what go on in a lot of schools for sure. Visit any hospital and there'll be crowds of people speaking different tongues, looking shabby and smelly etc...who can deny such needs; but economics is a hard task master.


The only good thing I can see at the moment is Cameron can't get his own way on every issue, only time will tell of course.

Yes, as long as he's not self-righteous. They might end up being the 'holier than thous' as someone's already put it. The first few weeks might be good indicators, but change needs time.

[Vaucluse]

Who says they don't? Recent renovation work where I live has been done by good number of Romanians who don't work for less than Britons and a good many Poles live here too who also pay taxes.

Hard to say, some do but not all pay taxes; esp. those in businesses or privately employed e.g. cleaners, builders, plumbers, waiters etc

Some don't? How many born and bred Britons don't pay taxes? Who pays these immigrants who don't declare income? A plumber fixes a pipe for you and you say you don't need a receipt if he knocks 50 off . . . who is the culprit?

2. they do not send their money back to their own countries

Why shouldn't they? We do the same given the opportunity.
If 200,000 send 50% of their money back, there'll be less left for circulation in the country.

A fatuous argument at best. At any given time there are 6.329.450.660.000 sterling in circulation. Do you really believe that a few waiters and plumbers sending money home is depleting the country's reserves? That's simply laughable

3. they have to pay sufficient contributions before they can get benefits, health care, housing, free transportation for kids and over 60s.

Perhaps you believe some of the media-hype; a good number of immigrants aren't entitled to benefits unless they have been here X number of years. Although there is probably some substance in what you say, I have to admit I don't know the full details since I'm not an immigrant.

I didn't get this from any direct source but from what I SEE going around me. I know very well what go on in a lot of schools for sure. Visit any hospital and there'll be crowds of people speaking different tongues, looking shabby and smelly etc...who can deny such needs; but economics is a hard task master.\

Wow, looking shabby and smelly? I thought, initially, that your posts were not too bad, but this one is well below par. Smelly and shabby . . .speaking different languages . . . May I suggest that what you SEE is a fraction of a fraction of society . . . perhaps you should move to a better area . . .

The only good thing I can see at the moment is Cameron can't get his own way on every issue, only time will tell of course.

Yes, as long as he's not self-righteous. They might end up being the 'holier than thous' as someone's already put it. The first few weeks might be good indicators, but change needs time.

Self-righteous? In what way? I'm thinking that if anything the stance on immigration will become stronger . . . how did the BNP fare?

Quite a sad post for your standards, anne