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Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

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manutdfan
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Re: Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

Postby manutdfan » Thu, 29 Apr 2010 4:38 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
manutdfan wrote:Oh I don't know - one local council apparently spent 100k on 200 plastic penquins -.


Trying to be funny by quoting one incident, or an incident which may or may not be accurate, doesn't help your standpoint


I was only referencing one of many instances.

I think the idea that there is no waste in UK Public service provision is wrong - and I think there are probably hundreds more examples that could prove the point and that could be cut without costing a single job for teachers, nurses or police officers.

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ksl
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Re: Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

Postby ksl » Thu, 29 Apr 2010 4:47 pm

manutdfan wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
manutdfan wrote:Oh I don't know - one local council apparently spent 100k on 200 plastic penquins -.


Trying to be funny by quoting one incident, or an incident which may or may not be accurate, doesn't help your standpoint


I was only referencing one of many instances.

I think the idea that there is no waste in UK Public service provision is wrong - and I think there are probably hundreds more examples that could prove the point and that could be cut without costing a single job for teachers, nurses or police officers.
You are in fact right, though when you work for the civil service, you get the perks that go with it, protection was on my mind!

Depending who is on the throne matters little, they are just moved around, to make it look good :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_Majest ... il_Service

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Postby februus » Thu, 29 Apr 2010 4:52 pm

i can understand his annoyance, she just went on and on and really made him look stupid!

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ksl
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Postby ksl » Thu, 29 Apr 2010 5:04 pm

februus wrote:i can understand his annoyance, she just went on and on and really made him look stupid!
I can also agree! Though she is one of the sheep, that beeps too loud! Such a remark like "bigot" is almost saying that she's human :lol: Politicians what are they thinking, should be done quietly! Otherwise the rest wake up :lol: for a little while anyway..

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Re: Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

Postby raden888 » Thu, 29 Apr 2010 5:17 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
And? Well Nothing, just pointing out to old boy KSL what was before.:)


Why is it when someone brings up immigration they are straight away labeled bigots? Can't it be that ,they're just genuinely concern about their local community?

Looks like the Aussie Labour Party may be following suit with tax breaks.Just follow what the old country does, eh? :lol:

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Re: Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

Postby Plavt » Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:10 pm

manutdfan wrote:Oh I don't know - one local council apparently spent 100k on 200 plastic penquins - from the stories my Singaporean wife (who was working in the NHS) tells me there's plenty of room for cost savings without actually sacking teachers.


'Stories' Ah yes I hear lots myself and more often than not they are rubbish. Tell me is your wife the comptroller for the NHS?


And as for the rounding error comment - the total UK budget spend was of the order of 700bn pounds. The current deficit is of the order of over 150 bn pounds. The 6bn "cuts" in taxes are small beer, and is in fact the rounding error you can get by adding up the budgets of all the government departments to the nearest billion.


The 6bn "cuts" in taxes


You have just proved my remark as abrasive as it was I grant you that. Cameron is not talking about cutting (except for his own which he currently vehemently denies|) taxes he is talking about controlling
public spending which is about all the conservatives do not giving a damn about the sick, disabled and unemployed to mention a few.

The fact is more unemployment will be generated by their policies so how will it be paid for? Simple they will borrow more money - seems it isn't when the tories do what they chastise the Labour party for.

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Re: Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

Postby Plavt » Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:17 pm

manutdfan wrote:I think the idea that there is no waste in UK Public service provision is wrong - and I think there are probably hundreds more examples that could prove the point and that could be cut without costing a single job for teachers, nurses or police officers.


Then maybe you should take a course in basic economics; the single most costly factor to all but a handful of employers is the wages bill and that is a fact. Look at just about any company merger or takeover and the first thing that happens is they reduce their cost by transferring work to over countries where workers may be little more than slaves while cosily claiming they cannot survive in Europe without so doing.

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Postby Nath21 » Fri, 30 Apr 2010 9:08 am

Ten reasons why Uk is in trouble:
1. went from an oil exporter to oil importer,
2. lost its manufacturing export base which saw it lead the industrial revolution;
3. currently 6 out of 10 people employed by the public service;
4. 40% of GDP comes from the financial services industry which is in a
big hole;
5. UK failure to stop unfunded pension plans;
6. Use and encourangement of UK based tax havens for tax avoidance by high income individuals;
7. attendace at war it cant afford;
8. Amount of money the government has to fund just to service debt;
9. Close election wont enable another party to fix any of this; and
10. Labor in government for too long overseeing these outcomes and policies

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Re: Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

Postby Vaucluse » Fri, 30 Apr 2010 9:40 am

raden888 wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
And? Well Nothing, just pointing out to old boy KSL what was before.:)


Why is it when someone brings up immigration they are straight away labeled bigots? Can't it be that ,they're just genuinely concern about their local community?

Looks like the Aussie Labour Party may be following suit with tax breaks.Just follow what the old country does, eh? :lol:



Did I say that? Are yo sure you are attributing the quote to the correct person?

Anyway, I see nothing wrong in regulating immigration . . . and keeping a certain ethnic balance through immigration . . . we can all see what the seeming free-for-all has brought us in Oz . . . ghettos.
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Postby aster » Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:21 am

Nath21 wrote:Ten reasons why Uk is in trouble:
3. currently 6 out of 10 people employed by the public service;


Are you sure about this? Seems a bit high to me...

Nath21 wrote:4. 40% of GDP comes from the financial services industry which is in a big hole;


This is a problem all over, completely blown out of proportion with all sorts of useless financial instruments. If economists think it normal to see 40% of GDP accounted for in this way then I'm lost for words...

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Postby Nath21 » Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:24 pm

aster wrote:
Nath21 wrote:Ten reasons why Uk is in trouble:
3. currently 6 out of 10 people employed by the public service;


Are you sure about this? Seems a bit high to me...

Nath21 wrote:4. 40% of GDP comes from the financial services industry which is in a big hole;


This is a problem all over, completely blown out of proportion with all sorts of useless financial instruments. If economists think it normal to see 40% of GDP accounted for in this way then I'm lost for words...


Public sector now 53% of economy as record 6.09million Britons work for the state
By Gerri Peev
Last updated at 12:16 PM on 23rd March 2010

The Daily Mail revealed last week how the latest unemployment figures showed that private sector employees have been facing the sack, while a record 6.09million Britons now work in the public sector.
Around 1,440 private sector workers lost their jobs each day last year - but the number of state employees rose by 126 a day, according to the Office for National Statistics.

Additioanlly roughly 28% of the 40% in financial services is generated in the golden mile in london.

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Postby ksl » Fri, 30 Apr 2010 1:15 pm

Some interesting statistics on tax and welfare, though they are statistics that are done to suit a purpose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

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Plavt
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Postby Plavt » Fri, 30 Apr 2010 8:52 pm

Nath21 wrote:Ten reasons why Uk is in trouble:
1. went from an oil exporter to oil importer,
2. lost its manufacturing export base which saw it lead the industrial revolution;
3. currently 6 out of 10 people employed by the public service;
4. 40% of GDP comes from the financial services industry which is in a
big hole;
5. UK failure to stop unfunded pension plans;
6. Use and encourangement of UK based tax havens for tax avoidance by high income individuals;
7. attendace at war it cant afford;
8. Amount of money the government has to fund just to service debt;
9. Close election wont enable another party to fix any of this; and
10. Labor in government for too long overseeing these outcomes and policies


You should be the UK's next Prime Minister! :o :P

manutdfan
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Re: Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

Postby manutdfan » Sat, 01 May 2010 1:50 am

Plavt wrote:
manutdfan wrote:I think the idea that there is no waste in UK Public service provision is wrong - and I think there are probably hundreds more examples that could prove the point and that could be cut without costing a single job for teachers, nurses or police officers.


Then maybe you should take a course in basic economics; the single most costly factor to all but a handful of employers is the wages bill and that is a fact. Look at just about any company merger or takeover and the first thing that happens is they reduce their cost by transferring work to over countries where workers may be little more than slaves while cosily claiming they cannot survive in Europe without so doing.


Thats not my experience of mergers and takeovers.

They usually do involve redundancies - particularly among back office staff.

However outsourcing to other parts of the world (such as India and China - or in one company I worked in, the Czech Republic) has nothing to do with mergers and takeovers.

As for the six billion - that's supposed to be the cost of the Conservatives reversing Labour's NI increase. NI shouldn't be used to pay for teachers and police - and only indirectly for doctors and nurses - it's a handy way for Labour governments to put up taxes on the lower income groups while claiming they aren't increasing taxes. But then I don't expect much from a party who increased taxes on the lowest earners in society to give a tax cut for the low to middle income groups.

Further, much of the increase was on employer's NI - meaning they slapped a billion of hundreds of millions of pounds on organisations like the NHS.

None the less - tax cuts are not taking money out of the economy - they are leaving the money in the hands of people who earned the money in the first place who will often choose to spend it - there by stimulating growth.

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Re: Gordon Brown UK puts his foot in it!

Postby Plavt » Sat, 01 May 2010 5:48 am

manutdfan wrote:
Thats not my experience of mergers and takeovers.

They usually do involve redundancies - particularly among back office staff.


That's what some like to claim but the evidence suggests otherwise - get a real sloppy service from a good number of companies these days.

However outsourcing to other parts of the world (such as India and China - or in one company I worked in, the Czech Republic) has nothing to do with mergers and takeovers.


Maybe but in every merger or takeover I have heard there have been job losses and no end of companies have moved operations abroad to acquire cheap labour. Here's and example an American owned company produce caterpillar tracts at Birtley near Newcastle-upon-Tyne; the company was profitable but the American ownership still moved production to South Korea for cheaper labour (some years ago now).


As for the six billion - that's supposed to be the cost of the Conservatives reversing Labour's NI increase. NI shouldn't be used to pay for teachers and police - and only indirectly for doctors and nurses - it's a handy way for Labour governments to put up taxes on the lower income groups while claiming they aren't increasing taxes. But then I don't expect much from a party who increased taxes on the lowest earners in society to give a tax cut for the low to middle income groups.


Bullshit! You clearly do not know what you are talking about since every government has increased NI contributions. As for it being a 'handy way to put up taxes for the lower income groups', again you are talking nonsense since it only applies to those earning 20K or more. An increase of income tax to 50p for those earning a 150K of more is hardly a tax cut for middle income groups is it?

Further, much of the increase was on employer's NI - meaning they slapped a billion of hundreds of millions of pounds on organisations like the NHS.


Get your facts right will you? None of the increases have been applied yet. The more likely reason is there are more people not working than are working throughout Europe for various reasons but then maybe you have been away too long?

None the less - tax cuts are not taking money out of the economy - they are leaving the money in the hands of people who earned the money in the first place who will often choose to spend it - there by stimulating growth.


Now you really are sinking into the gutter with your own argument! Bankers award themselves obscene bonuses, the conservatives want to give money to a minority of people who have more than they need to survive comfortably. That does not simulate growth since the money will end up in tax havens such as Litchenstien or in Swiss bank accounts where it earns no interest and benefits nobody other than the few individuals who put it there to start with.
Last edited by Plavt on Sat, 01 May 2010 1:59 pm, edited 4 times in total.


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