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Buying a new PC

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Buying a new PC

Postby JR8 » Fri, 16 Apr 2010 9:33 pm

I think my Pc is on it's last legs. It's about 5-6 years old now, and so many things don't work, I half expect it to die every day I turn it on (it certainly sounds as if it will!).

Question: I'm relocating to Germany in circa a month. Should I buy a new PC here, or wait until I'm over there?

Thoughts appreciated.

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Re: Buying a new PC

Postby ksl » Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:13 pm

JR8 wrote:I think my Pc is on it's last legs. It's about 5-6 years old now, and so many things don't work, I half expect it to die every day I turn it on (it certainly sounds as if it will!).

Question: I'm relocating to Germany in circa a month. Should I buy a new PC here, or wait until I'm over there?

Thoughts appreciated.
Depends on the rate of exchange, I think you may get more for your $ in Germany, check the electronic exhibitions in Germany.

I would also say you get a 2 year warranty in Europe too, with better customer service, the warranty here is local. Also Computers in Europe have to meet higher European product standards on the component side, where some components are made for Asian markets, with less stringent controls. So when you are considering what is inside in terms of chip standards, the quality control is much higher in Europe than Singapore.

Washing machines, and all other electronic goods are made for Asian markets, lower quality control, and higher price is what you get in Singapore that is fact.

Consumers are not aware of the difference, though products manufactured in China on licence are of a lower quality than the Japanese manufactured product. This is noticeable in Large fridge freezer prices for example, Korean LG made in China are lower priced, because the quality is less controlled, in fact I try to avoid China made products on licence. High Technology has not been transferred to the mainland for obvious reasons, like National interest, and industrial espionage. OEM in Taiwan is very different to OEM in China

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 9:46 am

Fascinating, and pursuasive.

Thanks :)

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Postby Strong Eagle » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:30 am

I'm sorry... once again ksl is blowing smoke out his sunshine blocker.

Almost all PC's sold here come with an international warranty, usually one year, and upgradable with options like onsite service. My Lenovo came with a 3 year onsite warranty (international). As for customer service, you'll find the majority of call centers in the Philippines, then India, with Malaysia experiencing strong growth.

I don't buy the component bazz fazz at all. Depending upon brand, and supplier contract, you'll find that motherboards, CPU's, graphics sets, DVD drives, disk drives, and LCD monitors are produced by only a handful of vendors. Got an IBM... it will be Hitachi disk drive... can you explain how you get 'lower quality' on a drive that has the same MTBF no matter what the brand it is installed in?

Warranty service is a direct hit to profits in an industry where 5 percent is a good margin. Every company constantly analyzes failures for any trend that could cost money and will instantly be jumping on their suppliers if an anomaly pops up. Moreover, repair costs are minimized when the repair service companies can minimize the number of spare parts kept on hand... so believe that that Hitachi disk drive could be the replacement in any number of brands as could a Matsui DVD drive.

Lower price in China is attributable to labor rates, not build quality. An assembly line is an assembly line. What poorly trained labor does is increase the reject rate, and possibly affect the cosmetic quality of a finished product but chips???? They work at a given clock speed or they don't... why do you think Intel sells grades of chips?

What does affect build quality is the conscious decision on the part of manufacturers to use cheaper components in the frame, the hinges, the keyboard, the cooling fan, and lower build quality can be built anywhere. You can find these differences by examining some vendor's commercial versus home offerings.

What does affect the final product are the design decisions made: Shared versus dedicated memory for graphics, choice of CPU speeds, bus speeds, memory type, and I can assure you that none of these are Euro or Asia centric... they are entry level, consumer, prosumer, and 'professional' level choices.

The only thing I would look at is price for the models you are interested in. With a higher VAT in Europe I would think that an SG purchase would be very competitive.

But, why not jump online... Dell SG and Dell Germany for example and compare Apples to Apples in native currencies?

PS: I looked at similar Dell Studio 15's on the SG and DE websites. For SG website = S$1749 with GST and delivery. For similar machine on DE website, Euro 729. Hitting my trusty mid market currency converter this works out to S$1354, so it looks like DE might be the better place.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 6:01 pm

Yep, this depends whether you are going to buy branded or non-branded PC. As you asked this question here and revealed your unforgivable negligence about the Funan shopping mall existence in another thread you will likely be much better off buying a branded one.

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Re: Buying a new PC

Postby Splatted » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 7:46 pm

ksl wrote:Washing machines, and all other electronic goods are made for Asian markets, lower quality control, and higher price is what you get in Singapore that is fact.


I have heard there is a Chinese brand of washing machine that is of higher quality than western produced washing machines.

They pour millions into R&D, and even responded to a consumer complaint that their machines did not clear sludge/mud at the bottom of the unit.

When a rep drove several hours to pay the consumer a visit, he found the person was a farmer using the washing machine to wash his potato's.

The company made changes to their design. So now this company is the only company in the world that produce washing machines that can wash both clothes and potatos.

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Postby bigfilsing » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:11 am

Strong Eagle wrote:.


Lower price in China is attributable to labor rates, not build quality. An assembly line is an assembly line. What poorly trained labor does is increase the reject rate, and possibly affect the cosmetic quality of a finished product but chips???? They work at a given clock speed or they don't... why do you think Intel sells grades of chips?



Urm. Yeah Intel do sell different grades of chips and it has nothing to do with where they are made

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Re: Buying a new PC

Postby ksl » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 1:03 am

Splatted wrote:
ksl wrote:Washing machines, and all other electronic goods are made for Asian markets, lower quality control, and higher price is what you get in Singapore that is fact.


I have heard there is a Chinese brand of washing machine that is of higher quality than western produced washing machines.

They pour millions into R&D, and even responded to a consumer complaint that their machines did not clear sludge/mud at the bottom of the unit.

When a rep drove several hours to pay the consumer a visit, he found the person was a farmer using the washing machine to wash his potato's.

The company made changes to their design. So now this company is the only company in the world that produce washing machines that can wash both clothes and potatos.


Anything that is any good is Taiwanese when it come to high tech and chips....and they have been very slow to transfer technology to China, all Chinese OEM branded goods in Asia are of a different quality to Europe, and that is pretty logical cost saving when standards are so poor in Asia. There is of course Taiwanese companies operating to European standards in China, but their technology is well guarded and grading of chips still continues. China does not have that high tech knowledge at hand.

Taiwan Government is opposed to handing over the latest technology to its oppressor, when it comes to semi conductors and chips.
You only have to ask Harvey Norman staff what the difference is in quality of the LG fridge Freezers made in China and the ones made in Korea...they will tell you straight China doesn't have the technology transfer from LG to make the same standard.

The same goes for Japanese gaming machines too ask those in the industry, in the game shops, the Chinese versions.

The cloning of major brands is so big in China, that Brand owners cannot keep up, ask in Sim Lim too if you don't believe.

Here is and email just to conclude what goes on
Dear Ken,

Please note that Scandyna do not make PA speaker system model WMA-8610AH.

It is most likely a fake product out of China you have where someone use our name.

Kind regards

Frank
So even when you are buying a brand, you need to have it authenticated, some retailers will tell you straight if you ask if its Chinese made or not.

http://www.chinaeconomicreview.com/dail ... flict.html

I worked in the pc components for 3 years visiting manufacturers and the fake memory chips Chinese ones bearing global giant brand names, is that big of a problem, that people just give up.

SE sorry matey your well off track if you believe your Asian goods are as good as what you get in the USA, yes they or Europe.

I have Taiwanese family in China with 3 factories producing hinges for Dell Computers, he's often here in Singapore, everything is Taiwanese because nobody trusts the quality in China, it's quantity and not quality they produce...

Though without a doubt many businessmen are getting mega rich on the margins of Chinese made components :lol: and stoking the fire. Most of the Components SE mentions are also Taiwanese inside not Chinese,

Though I don't know about is IBM Lenovo, now they have their hands on it.

Though the USA Government have changed their mind too though that was back in 2006.

Anyone that has dealings with China know the risks damn well, SE you need to ask those that are dealing with China, to find out. Even the Taiwanese made Computer brands in Taiwan are specifically made for the local market and do not have international warranties.

Build standards and models are completely different to what you can purchase in Europe. Same with mobile phones too...has anyone seen the legend by HTC in Singapore yet, why do you think Singapore is the last place to get all the new releases

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2845

Though i will agree with some products being the same quality like music cd's and DVD's. Though it is a well known fact too that some mega brands, rely on marketing and branding, rather than quality inside, I wonder could they be Chinese components, yes indeed they could, because big $ margins can be made.

Memory chips alone come in many different grades and nano second speeds, you will see Chinese memory being used, if the technology isn't really required for the product.

Also hard disks are graded too with errors on them, if they can last the warranty then they have done their job, occasionally running them in will pick up bad sectors, these are graded and priced differently only if the consumer is clever enough to test the hard drive for bad sectors, will he get a replacement. welcome to the real world, that is full of dodgy manufacturing.

When i was dealing in components the biggest headache of all, was the RMA of some shit products, guaranteed to break down, hard disks that had been outsourced to China with a very high failure rate and motherboards too was around 10%. Though ones made by the brand owner was of a better quality.

All the digital camera's too, have parts from China and Taiwan, a product only has to outlive its warranty, no matter what cost.

The extended warranties is one of the most lucrative rip offs of all time, just like any other insurance.

Obviously Germany is much Cheaper with a strong Sing$, Holland Cheaper still, because that's where all the large volume of products land for distribution.

There is plenty of information around on the net, to substantiate what goes on in manufacturing.

PCB's are dog standard what goes on them is something else, you want quality stay the hell away from China, unless its run and controlled by the Taiwanese. :wink:

I'll throw this one in for good measure http://www.chiefasiainspector.com/

To add to the list of threats, if you are not mainland Chinese you are fair game :lol: for your greed to move production, will be costly

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Re: Buying a new PC

Postby JR8 » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:39 pm

Splatted wrote:
ksl wrote:Washing machines, and all other electronic goods are made for Asian markets, lower quality control, and higher price is what you get in Singapore that is fact.


I have heard there is a Chinese brand of washing machine that is of higher quality than western produced washing machines.




Yeah, it's called Maytag.... hehehe...

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 1:42 pm

HP Singapore -
price S$ 1,699 Inc. GST
HP TouchSmart 300-1000 Desktop PC series
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/de/de/ho ... 52963.html

HP Germany -
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/de/de/ho ... 02827.html
euro 699-


Singapore 30% more expensive, any thats despite Germany having 20% GST... shocking

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 1:46 pm

Oh which reminds me!

Knock off the GST won't you there's a good chap

Don't like to pay this tax thingy.


p.s. thanks.... mind made up...

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Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 1:49 pm

JR8 wrote:HP Singapore -
price S$ 1,699 Inc. GST
HP TouchSmart 300-1000 Desktop PC series
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/de/de/ho ... 52963.html

HP Germany -
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/de/de/ho ... 02827.html
euro 699-


Singapore 30% more expensive, any thats despite Germany having 20% GST... shocking



So you got pretty much the same results I did, and it really doesn't make any sense. The PC's are made somewhere in Asia so shipping has to be less. I'm not aware of an import tariff on PC's. So, why are PC's so much more expensive here?

And actually, the same applies for all sorts of electronics like cameras... cheaper in the US fer sure.

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Postby Splatted » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 2:25 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
JR8 wrote:HP Singapore -
price S$ 1,699 Inc. GST
HP TouchSmart 300-1000 Desktop PC series
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/de/de/ho ... 52963.html

HP Germany -
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/de/de/ho ... 02827.html
euro 699-


Singapore 30% more expensive, any thats despite Germany having 20% GST... shocking



So you got pretty much the same results I did, and it really doesn't make any sense. The PC's are made somewhere in Asia so shipping has to be less. I'm not aware of an import tariff on PC's. So, why are PC's so much more expensive here?

And actually, the same applies for all sorts of electronics like cameras... cheaper in the US fer sure.


Because the 2nd hand market is dead in Singapore. Singaporeans are too kiasu when selling and want an arm and a leg for something that will cost you 1/10th the price overseas used. This will keep the demand for new high

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Postby ksl » Sun, 18 Apr 2010 3:20 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
JR8 wrote:HP Singapore -
price S$ 1,699 Inc. GST
HP TouchSmart 300-1000 Desktop PC series
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/de/de/ho ... 52963.html

HP Germany -
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/de/de/ho ... 02827.html
euro 699-


Singapore 30% more expensive, any thats despite Germany having 20% GST... shocking



So you got pretty much the same results I did, and it really doesn't make any sense. The PC's are made somewhere in Asia so shipping has to be less. I'm not aware of an import tariff on PC's. So, why are PC's so much more expensive here?

And actually, the same applies for all sorts of electronics like cameras... cheaper in the US fer sure.


It's called manufacturer price control, though quantities shipped to the main port in Holland are heavily discounted because of shipment size and GST payable which varies in EU 25% the highest.

Normally the Country paying the highest GST will get favourable cost price, becuase of GST to the end consumer, they screw Asia based on pricing strategies in accordance with income pr houshold, and import standards that suit the models made for local markets which maybe assembled with graded components due to the lack of consumer protection, and cultural face.

Also individual Countries like Denmark for instance have heavier tax to Cover Codecs and other Copyright laws, to ensure the money is passed on too artisits, so all recordable devices cost more than other Countries becuase government know people copy.

Individual import regulations tend to act as a technical hindrances in USA and Europe much more simple in Asia, when this happens a price is paid forcing the manufacturer to lower his price for that Country.. Denmark has always been a favourable Country for purchasing abroad, because of GST, which is 25% on everything but cars which work out at 180% So all cars sold too Denmark are cheaper than other Countries, one could save anything from 35% to 55% purchasing an English car through a Danish dealer for re-export.

Though this is very privileged information and a well known fact that production quality was better in Germany, because of weather conditions for English Cars, rather than buying one in UK, which was made to fit UK standard and would rust more quickly.

There are no laws to say a product must be cheaper in Asia because their is little tax, because the manufacturer is attempting to control his sales price to importers. He actually evaluates each Country independently to see if its worthwhile trading.

The manufacturers make a killing in Singapore, because the cost price is kept quite high, telling the importer the manufacturer is in charge of pricing, though you as the importer must do your home work, to see if the market can bear the price, by comparisons of likable products.


Chinese Copycats!
http://www.hemmy.net/2007/05/18/automob ... -copycats/

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Re: Buying a new PC

Postby bigfilsing » Mon, 19 Apr 2010 8:50 am

JR8 wrote:I think my Pc is on it's last legs. It's about 5-6 years old now, and so many things don't work, I half expect it to die every day I turn it on (it certainly sounds as if it will!).

Question: I'm relocating to Germany in circa a month. Should I buy a new PC here, or wait until I'm over there?

Thoughts appreciated.


Of course the first thing you should do before considerations of washing potatoes is buy an external hard drive and back up anything of importance on the old girl before she goes "pop".

Consumer protection is a big deal in Europe so you'd probably be better off buying there
Good luck


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