Anybody at Woodsvale?

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Edmundfo
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Anybody at Woodsvale?

Post by Edmundfo » Sat, 10 Apr 2010 3:29 am

I have previous brought up the very restrictive access card policy at Woodsvale condo. Now their policy has tightened considerably, insisting on personal access cards which even has to be showed to the guards when you enter the condo by cab.

If there are anybody else living at Woodsvale at this forum, I want to ask: Are you really OK with this?

I have never been able to receive a sensible answer from the management regarding how this system allows me to have overnight visitors. My only conclusion is so far that it dont. And people call this private property?!?

When I brought this up on a different forum I was met with statements such as the following: "As an expat renting a condo at a fairly high rent it does rather devalue our condo to have hordes of locals around the pool and other facilities". Are this kind of attitudes really representative for the expat community in Singapore? Making condos look like a charicature of the over-controlled Singapore society. Thank god I only have 3 months left of my lease at this miserable place.

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Re: Anybody at Woodsvale?

Post by x9200 » Sat, 10 Apr 2010 8:57 am

Edmundfo wrote:I have previous brought up the very restrictive access card policy at Woodsvale condo. Now their policy has tightened considerably, insisting on personal access cards which even has to be showed to the guards when you enter the condo by cab.

[..]

I have never been able to receive a sensible answer from the management regarding how this system allows me to have overnight visitors. My only
In our previous place (really big condo) it was similar and I found it acceptable or even desirable. We have visiting friends many times and then simply left them one pair of the keys with one access card (we had 2 only).

conclusion is so far that it dont. And people call this private property?!?
This is also a "condo", a protected/restricted access property. There are some obvious limitation resulting from this.

When I brought this up on a different forum I was met with statements such as the following: "As an expat renting a condo at a fairly high rent it does rather devalue our condo to have hordes of locals around the pool and other facilities". Are this kind of attitudes really representative for the expat community in Singapore? Making condos look like a charicature
Well, regardless locals or not locals... in the above mentioned condo it was a clear problem with this. During weekends the population of the condo seemed to get doubled and this was with the access card procedures already in place.

of the over-controlled Singapore society. Thank god I only have 3 months left of my lease at this miserable place.
I am really afraid you will likely be disappointed in your next one too.
It also seems you are trying to make out of this a racial or political issue and it has nothing to do with this.

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Re: Anybody at Woodsvale?

Post by Edmundfo » Sat, 10 Apr 2010 2:46 pm

x9200 wrote:
Edmundfo wrote:I have previous brought up the very restrictive access card policy at Woodsvale condo. Now their policy has tightened considerably, insisting on personal access cards which even has to be showed to the guards when you enter the condo by cab.

[..]

I have never been able to receive a sensible answer from the management regarding how this system allows me to have overnight visitors. My only
In our previous place (really big condo) it was similar and I found it acceptable or even desirable. We have visiting friends many times and then simply left them one pair of the keys with one access card (we had 2 only).

conclusion is so far that it dont. And people call this private property?!?
This is also a "condo", a protected/restricted access property. There are some obvious limitation resulting from this.

When I brought this up on a different forum I was met with statements such as the following: "As an expat renting a condo at a fairly high rent it does rather devalue our condo to have hordes of locals around the pool and other facilities". Are this kind of attitudes really representative for the expat community in Singapore? Making condos look like a charicature
Well, regardless locals or not locals... in the above mentioned condo it was a clear problem with this. During weekends the population of the condo seemed to get doubled and this was with the access card procedures already in place.

of the over-controlled Singapore society. Thank god I only have 3 months left of my lease at this miserable place.
I am really afraid you will likely be disappointed in your next one too.
It also seems you are trying to make out of this a racial or political issue and it has nothing to do with this.
I really dont get this. Me and my wife has one access card each. Lets say we give one to our overnight guest. First of all, this is not allowed by the management (because the cards are personal), so it does clearly not solve the problem. Second, if we do that one of us will be without access card and therefore risks not being allowed into our own house. That is hardly an "obvious limitation", but rather a Kafkaesque-Hellerian absurdity if you ask me. Recall that the security guards will now not let me enter without my access card either, despite knowing perfectly well that I live here. I ask again: Can anyone please explain me how to deal with this?

This would be easy to solve if the management was willing to give out one extra access card, possibly with limited validity in order to avoid abuse. But the management refuses to do that. So although your solution works at your condo (and worked at Woodsvale before), I can hardly see how it can work at Woodsvale with the new policy.

This is not all, though. Since we rent a rather large 3 bedroom apartment, we wanted to let my sister in law visit when she wanted to. The landlord had no objections to this. However, the management was only willing to give her an access card if she moved her permanent address to Woodsvale. This, again, I find ridiculous. It kind of follows from this that I'm not allowed to rent (or for that sake own) two different private properties at once.

I'm not saying that the management does not want locals in their condo. On the contrary, Woodsvale is governed by its own residents, and I believe the number of expats owning a place here is rather low. Neither did I make this into a racial issue. Rather it was the responce (emphasized in italics) from other expats which had a racist flavor to it. The racist flavor was apparently clear enough for you to spot it, and then I think its fair to ask if other expats share those attitudes.

It is hardly surprising that the population of the condo would appear to double during the weekend. However, a condo such as Woodsvale is so spacious in the first place that this shouldnt really be a problem. The only place which tends to get too crowded is the gym, which frankly is quite pathetic anyway.

Of course a condo should be a somewhat protected place. But rules need to be practical if they are supposed to work well. There are many less drastic measures that Woodsvale could have implemented instead. How anyone can be willing to make their condo into a prison (yes thats what it is, when I cannot leave my house fearing that my friends may want to visit me) just for the sake of keeping their swimming pool empty, is beyond my imagination.

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Re: Anybody at Woodsvale?

Post by Edmundfo » Tue, 13 Apr 2010 1:41 pm

And now I discovered that I can't even exit the condo without my access card. Madness beyond my wildest imagination.

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Post by Strong Eagle » Tue, 13 Apr 2010 2:43 pm

I have only been to a couple of condos where as a guest, I have been asked to show ID to be admitted and never has the tenant I am visiting had to come get me.

Some places, especially in the morning when I am picking up a golf buddy, use ang mo security, a wave of the hand and the gate goes up.

I'd say you have an anomaly, and a good reason to move.

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Re: Anybody at Woodsvale?

Post by Edmundfo » Wed, 14 Apr 2010 7:55 pm

Edmundfo wrote:And now I discovered that I can't even exit the condo without my access card. Madness beyond my wildest imagination.
And finally they seem to have discovered that in order to be consistent with this mad scheme, they need to manually check the access card of everyone entering the condo.

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Post by mortlock2005 » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 8:35 am

Sounds bizzare. We had a lovely condo where we simply waved at the guard and he'd pop the gate open. We had a couple of spare gate keys so that visitors could come and go, and any friends visiting just had to stop at the gate and get a temporary visitor pass for their car.

I also can understand the lunacy of a comment that the population of the condo doubles on the weekend. Of course it does, everyone is home from work!

I think your experience is the exception, and I would be looking for a new condo.

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Post by x9200 » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:16 am

mortlock2005 wrote:I also can understand the lunacy of a comment that the population of the condo doubles on the weekend. Of course it does, everyone is home from work!
Very very good, but contrary to your beliefs it is rather simply to distinguish ppl having their free time after work from the visitors. On top of this majority of ppl are back to their home place after work so the population does not really doubles just because of it.
Last edited by x9200 on Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anybody at Woodsvale?

Post by x9200 » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:52 am

Edmundfo wrote:I really dont get this. Me and my wife has one access card each. Lets say we give one to our overnight guest. First of all, this is not allowed by the management (because the cards are personal), so

This is different from my experience - ours where not really personalized. With unique No - yes.

it does clearly not solve the problem. Second, if we do that one of us will be without access card and therefore risks not being allowed into our own house. That is hardly an "obvious limitation", but rather a Kafkaesque-

There is always this kind of risk if you have visitors whatever level of stupidity the management may show (as for yours or mine criteria if different). You may have 8 visiting family members, not just two and then what? It is always a compromise. Personally I think this should be a problem to be solved between you and the landlord not the management.

Hellerian absurdity if you ask me. Recall that the security guards will now not let me enter without my access card either, despite knowing perfectly well that I live here. I ask again: Can anyone please explain me how to deal with this?

This I agree is rather stupid. I would try to talk to the landlord. AT least the landlord has some more formal power over the management but if the landlord is a local guy what is a typical case, he/she will rather see regulations as something to stick to.

[..]
This is not all, though. Since we rent a rather large 3 bedroom apartment, we wanted to let my sister in law visit when she wanted to. The landlord had no objections to this. However, the management was only willing to give her an access card if she moved her permanent address to Woodsvale. This, again, I find ridiculous. It kind of follows from this that I'm not allowed to rent (or for that sake own) two different private properties at once.

I'm not saying that the management does not want locals in their condo. On the contrary, Woodsvale is governed by its own residents, and I believe the number of expats owning a place here is rather low. Neither did I make this into a racial issue. Rather it was the responce (emphasized in italics) from other expats which had a racist flavor to it. The racist flavor was apparently clear enough for you to spot it, and then I think its fair to ask if other expats share those attitudes.

It is hardly surprising that the population of the condo would appear to double during the weekend. However, a condo such as Woodsvale is so spacious in the first place that this shouldnt really be a problem. The only place which tends to get too crowded is the gym, which frankly is quite pathetic anyway.

Population of the condo, not a number of ppl in the common areas. Big difference.

Of course a condo should be a somewhat protected place. But rules need to be practical if they are supposed to work well. There are many less drastic measures that Woodsvale could have implemented instead. How anyone can be willing to make their condo into a prison (yes thats what it is, when I cannot leave my house fearing that my friends may want to visit me) just for the sake of keeping their swimming pool empty, is beyond my imagination.

Gosh, it is not about keeping the s. pool empty. It is about leaving some space inside.

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Re: Anybody at Woodsvale?

Post by Edmundfo » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 1:36 pm

There is always this kind of risk if you have visitors whatever level of stupidity the management may show (as for yours or mine criteria if different). You may have 8 visiting family members, not just two and then what? It is always a compromise. Personally I think this should be a problem to be solved between you and the landlord not the management.

Clearly you need an upper limit on how many access cards that can be given to a certain unit, say 7. Without making the cards personal you could still make them unique, so that a lost card easily can be invalidated. You could require all cards to be renewed, say, once a year. You could give overnight guests only very short term cards with one week validity or thereabout, and also have a quota on the total number of such cards given to any unit during one year. If I was running this place I would have tried to implement these measures first and see if it solved the perceived problems.

However, this condo is more spacious and quiet than most, and I really cannot understand how anyone could perceive it as overcrowded. Of course there always some people who will complain no matter what, but why are these people being listened to?

This I agree is rather stupid. I would try to talk to the landlord. AT least the landlord has some more formal power over the management but if the landlord is a local guy what is a typical case, he/she will rather see regulations as something to stick to.

Shouldnt he see the regulations as something to stick to? I think very much of the problem here is that people think its OK to pass "sleeping" rules, which are not really supposed to be enforced, just to have them available when needed. I consider this hypocricy. There is always the danger that a new management committee forgets that the rule wasnt really supposed to be taken seriously, and actually starts enforcing it.

I have tried twice to bring the problems up with the management, but when the rules in the first place are unreasonable, it is rather futile to argue with them. I can hardly blame them. Whoever passed the rules are to blame (as well as myself, for not checking these things carefully enough before signing the contract).

Gosh, it is not about keeping the s. pool empty. It is about leaving some space inside.

A major concern for the management is according to their own statement that previous residents come back to enjoy the swimming pool.

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Post by x9200 » Sat, 17 Apr 2010 6:42 pm

If the condo is spacious and have not too many inhabitants at the same time then I have no problem to agree with you. I am just saying that in our previous place this kind of restriction was (or might be as it was less strict) not completely without a reason. I am pretty aware how close minded and arrogant a condo management can be. And yes, you are right - ppl think it is ok, not because it is in this or that case really justified but because this is a regulation and now the loop is closed. Ppl do not question regulations here and that's why you will not get any reasonable answer from the management as they only follow what somebody once has written. More-over, most likely you may have no clue how many other much more stupid regulations are in such places to be follow. Have you ever tried for example to engage any contractors? :)
Anyway, if there is a critical mass of expats in your condo there may be a chance for a change otherwise I am afraid the only choice is to find a different place.

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