Landlord refusing security deposit

[tenant]

Hi Jr8,

Thanks for your informative reply.

By the way, 2 weeks is regarded as a reasonable time-frame to return a deposit where deductions have been agreed with a landlord on checking-out from an apartment, so him suggesting a month is not on the face of it reasonable.--by JR8

I agree with you about the duration (with in two weeks) for the depost return. However, when we are vacating landlord didn't appear. Only agent, who usually take care of the issues came and checked the inventory list and said every thing is alright and she put tickmark beside all the items listed in the inventory list. All the conversations occuring through agent, but not directly to landlord.

And then the troubles start. Two weeks passed and landlor said that, "I will settle in three weeks". Once we call on the third weekend, landlord says "I will settle in fourth week".

Agent is says that, I am just a postman to transfer the message between the landlor and the tenant. I cannot do anything. It is not my responsibility or job.

We asked for the quotation. Then we recieved quotation with list of items that are not listed in the inventory. In the thirdweek landlord is adding new list of items, which are marked as a good condition during the checking-out of the house.

Even though the items being charged by the landlor are not in the inventory check-list, contract (on which we signed) says that, if the expenses are greater than S$100, we have to bear the first S$100 and the rest to be beared by the landlord. With that, we accepted that we pay half of the bill. But, landlord wants all of the money to be bared by the
tenants.


Thanks

[JR8]

I agree with you about the duration (with in two weeks) for the depost return. However, when we are vacating landlord didn't appear. Only agent, who usually take care of the issues came and checked the inventory list and said every thing is alright and she put tickmark beside all the items listed in the inventory list. All the conversations occuring through agent, but not directly to landlord.

Thanks for putting some more flesh on the bones of the situation. It seems reasonable that the agent did the check-out and the landlord was not present. After all a landlord pays an agent to represent him. I have to say it is only in Singapore where I've gone to look at flats and there has been, me, wife and our agent, the Landlord and his entire family and his agent all following you around from room to room. It is pretty ridiculous, like the landlord can't trust his agent to act for him, so he pays the agent but shows up as well anyway. Anyway I digress. It is good that you had a documented check-out. It is even better if you have a copy of this.


And then the troubles start. Two weeks passed and landlor said that, "I will settle in three weeks". Once we call on the third weekend, landlord says "I will settle in fourth week".

Odds on he is waiting for a new tenant to arrive and pay rent and deposit so he can repay you some of your deposit from these funds.

Agent is says that, I am just a postman to transfer the message between the landlor and the tenant. I cannot do anything. It is not my responsibility or job.

No as frustrating as it is it is not the agent's job. The agent is paid for and represents the landlord and his interest (ultimately against you). Be grateful the agent is still talking to you, we've had reports here with tenants in similar shoes and the landlord's agent has just said 'Not my problem' and disappeared.

We asked for the quotation. Then we recieved quotation with list of items that are not listed in the inventory. In the thirdweek landlord is adding new list of items, which are marked as a good condition during the checking-out of the house.

-Firstly any deductions should have been agreed at the check-out. They cannot be changed or added to later.
-You cannot make deductions re: things that are not on the inventory. How could you, no change in condition between the start to end of tenancy has been recorded so what is to prove there has been one?
-It's straight forward, the reported check-out inventory and condition stand.

Even though the items being charged by the landlor are not in the inventory check-list, contract (on which we signed) says that, if the expenses are greater than S$100, we have to bear the first S$100 and the rest to be beared by the landlord. With that, we accepted that we pay half of the bill. But, landlord wants all of the money to be bared by the tenants.

That co-payment clause relates to repairs carried out during the term of your tenancy, and also (to the best of my knowledge) repairs that are outstanding upon your check-out. Once again the reported condition at the check-out stands. The landlord can't later start claiming for repairs that he claims need doing.


Thanks

p.s. Edit to add.
I think it's time to issue your final '7 day demand', i.e. pay up or I'll take you to the SCT.
I know that in England you can enter the draft information online in the SCT system and save it. You do that before filing your action. Maybe in the SGn SCT system you can do similar? Printing out a copy of the intended filing and sending it to the landlady together with your final demand might be just the jolt she needs.

[tenant]

Dear JR8,

When we check-out landlord is not there, so the agent was able to do the checklist. During that time the there are some spoiled items like electric table fan, oven, TV (All these items are old enough that even the landlord is not able to recall when landlord bought it e.g. 10 year or 5year) and defective curtain. In addition, washing machine door became loose, however there it is working properly without any defect.

These are considered as wear and tear by the agent during the check-out.

Recently, agent sent me two inventor lists named (a) old inventory list and (b) new inventory list.

old inventory is the one which is checked by the agent on the date of check-out. However, the new list was dated 3 weeks later to our check-out date.

I feel that, we dont have to pay (atlease to my knowledge) for the TV and Oven . Though, the washing machine is in good working condition with washing maching door became loose (landlor changed the whole washing maching).

Not sure about the daily chaning list of items and the conditions.

Thanks

[JR8]

Dear JR8,

When we check-out landlord is not there, so the agent was able to do the checklist. During that time the there are some spoiled items like electric table fan, oven, TV (All these items are old enough that even the landlord is not able to recall when landlord bought it e.g. 10 year or 5year) and defective curtain. In addition, washing machine door became loose, however there it is working properly without any defect.

These are considered as wear and tear by the agent during the check-out.

Recently, agent sent me two inventor lists named (a) old inventory list and (b) new inventory list.

This is ridiculous. You cannot just redo a check-out inventory. In any case you have to give a tenant a reasonable opportunity to attend while a check-in or out inventory is being done.

old inventory is the one which is checked by the agent on the date of check-out. However, the new list was dated 3 weeks later to our check-out date.

Did they offer an explanation as to why it was reissued, or who revised it?

I feel that, we dont have to pay (atlease to my knowledge) for the TV and Oven . Though, the washing machine is in good working condition with washing maching door became loose (landlor changed the whole washing maching).

You don't have to pay. Your original check-out is the valid one.

Not sure about the daily chaning list of items and the conditions.
Thanks

I am. It has no validity. Give the landlord 7 days notice to repay your deposit, and if not take him immediately to the SCT.

[tenant]

Dear JR8,

I stayed in a house for 2 years, by extending the agreement at the end of the first year.

I asked the Agent for the Tenancy Agreement for the second year. Agent says that it is not available. In addition Agent also says that, even landlord also doesn't have the tenancy agreement copy for the second year.

I have the hard copy of the tenancy agreement for the first year. Is this enough to proceed to SCT. Or it is mandatory to have the tenancy agreement for the second year.

Do HDB or the Agent's company hold a hard copy of the tenancy agreement for the second year.

Is it necessary to have a tenancy agreement for approaching SCT.

Looking forward for your informative reply.

Thanks and regards

[JR8]

Dear JR8,

I stayed in a house for 2 years, by extending the agreement at the end of the first year.

I asked the Agent for the Tenancy Agreement for the second year. Agent says that it is not available. In addition Agent also says that, even landlord also doesn't have the tenancy agreement copy for the second year.

I have the hard copy of the tenancy agreement for the first year. Is this enough to proceed to SCT. Or it is mandatory to have the tenancy agreement for the second year.

Do HDB or the Agent's company hold a hard copy of the tenancy agreement for the second year.

Is it necessary to have a tenancy agreement for approaching SCT.

Looking forward for your informative reply.

Thanks and regards

It,s difficult for me to reply right now, but...

My gut feel is that you can still go to the SCT explaining as you have above.
It might be reasonable to presume that your extension is as per the terms of your original lease, just with a potentially revised rent, evidenced by you paying it. The fact is the landlord declined to offer revised terms, I think that counts on your side.
I,d expect the agent to have copies of all agreements, don,t know about HDB etc...

[angrytenant]

Hello,

I have been reading this forum as my position is similar to many others who have written before me. The TA for my unit was between my ex-employer (on behalf of and underwritten by me) and the landlord. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I left the employment of this company the same day as the expiry of the tenancy agreement.

On expiry the unit was handed over to the landlord (we had no agent) with only one minor issue which was duly noted, acknowledged in writing by me on the handover document. This issue was settled in 2 days by me to the satisfaction of the landlord. As per the TA, the security deposit was to be returned within 14 days. On the 15th day, the landlord reverts to me on email stating the security deposit has been withheld because of dirty condition of the unit and appliances at the time of handover. This was not the truth since my wife and I had taken special efforts and ensured that each and every corner and appliance and furniture was cleaned. At the time of handover, none of these things were raised by the landlord and hence none of them were recorded in writing except the one issue I wrote above.

Now, the landlord is refusing to return the deposit and my ex-employer also wants me to handle this issue directly with the landlord. I have tried calling the landlord several times, but he refuses to answer my calls (quite strange considering that during the tenancy agreement, he had all the time in the world and chatted with me in person for couple of hours at time). Now I would entertain reasonable discussion with the landlord to settle the issue, but he simply wont talk to me. I guess he knows that I am no longer in employment with his counterparty to the TA and he sees a chance to gobble up the security deposit.

Do I have any legal right as a tenant, considering that the TA was signed with my ex-employer. What should I do in this case. Any advise would be appreciated much.

[Smashing]

Hello Friends,
My ex-landlord is causing problems after I vacated. On the day of handover we have agreed for few items to be replaced/repaired and signed I just got photocopy with time n date. When i asked about deposit amount they informed me saying we will resolve the noted issues and send you the detailed invoice. From the next day the issue started my landlord dropped me a mail saying I am going inspect again all items and let you know the findings and also mentioned all his downtime on inspections and charges will be incurred on my account. Then daily he started sending 2-3 mails saying this is dirt, stain, soiled mattress, cleaning etc.. Then after 1 weeks he sent me the items summary and quoted around double than the deposit amount and asking me to send his remaining amount to him within 1 week. To be noted all the items which has provided to me are in second hand (used) conditions only and now he is replacing all with new items. It doesn't stopped there after 7 days also he started sending me I went for replacing the item again and I found soiled in the back side of cushion, mattress.. door needed painting because we have done some stickers etc..

Also he keep claiming me saying I will take legal action if you fail to send the remaining amount.

He has given me lot of stress by sending 2-3 mails daily stating this is not working, this is stained, damaged etc..

He is not ready for any conversation until I accept all his claims are valid after the day handover.
I am going to SCT for filling. Need your inputs on this please.

Thanks much.

[martincymru]

I provided an inventory service in the UK some years ago. I stopped when I had done 3 of them. Why? Landlord and Tenant both ending up blaming me. Not worth the hassle for the fee.

I did offer simply a listing service (not a condition survey). I got less hassle but it was still a problem.

Now I am an advocate on full blown construction disputes so those early days of Landlord/Tenant disputes gave me a head start.

Solution for the OP: there isn't one. sorry.

[joiedevivre22]

Hi Smashing,

My stupid ex-landlord did the same thing. Some crappy trend, I suppose. Made me sign a simple document on handover and later sent a bill claiming over 2.5 times my deposit withheld.

In my case - the actual $$ was shared by 3 of us. We were friends renting out together. So, we held the loss but refused to pay a penny more than what he already had. To add up to the drama, we coughed up over $1000 to clean up before leaving. ( no, it was not a part of our contract to engage a cleaner he wants).

Well in your case, to my limited knowledge there are two options.

1. Get a professional lawyer's help. File in SCT for recovery of deposit. Your LL might argue back on damages done. In that case, you need a professional reno/furniture assessor to find the amount of damage. You should be allowed to choose one. Once an amount is agreed, he should return the rest.

2. Let go of your deposit and explain why you wont pay more to him. Basically, an off the court thing.

Good luck!

[Smashing]

Hi Joie,

In My case during the date of handover all inspection is done nearly 2 hrs and written in the document and agreed for repair. From the next day onwards he said I am going inspect some more & more daily and saying this is soiled this is damaged etc... Also the charges including his time spend now he is charging on me.

1. First after the day of handover is it accepted to landlord to go and inspect alone and tell the tenant there are few damages you have to replace?
2. its been more than 7 days still he is claiming for more damages - is this accepted?

He is totally trying to renovate the house and put all the charges on me.

[Smashing]

Actual amount as per the agreed repair parts during the handover is costing around half of deposit. But the claims he is trying after the day of handover is double the amount of deposit.

[martincymru]

OP: you mean there is a counter claim? What's the amount?

You may end up in some deep trouble here.

Yes, SCT I think is the best route.

[Smashing]

I am not sure about what is counter claim ? After you send out the tenant (after handover) from the house and claim whatever landlord want to inspect on his own and claim on tenant? What I understand is the inspection has to be done during the handover infront of both parties. Once handover is done its not right to claim anymore.

Claim amount now is double the deposit amount. five k

I am approaching SCT .

[x9200]

Actual amount as per the agreed repair parts during the handover is costing around half of deposit. But the claims he is trying after the day of handover is double the amount of deposit.

Do you have everything properly documented (i.e photos)?
a) condition of the apartment before you moved in
b) the condition at the time of the handover?