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The Expats Will Rule Singapore!

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teck21
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Postby teck21 » Mon, 15 Mar 2010 9:24 am

It is interesting, but it is also written by Adam Khoo. A story from a real estate agent who previously attended one of his motivational talks, and his suggestion for real estate agents was that to make more money, all of them should just focus on selling good class bungalows. :???:

And he doesn't say anything no one doesn't already know, unless they choose not to see.

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Postby teck21 » Mon, 15 Mar 2010 9:27 am

Splatted wrote:Where I disagree,... not everyone in Singapore has an equal opportunity to excel.

It's easier to succeed in a meritocratic society when you have wealthy parents backing you in all your endeavors.


Such is human nature, the system will be manipulated to reflect this whatever the system, capitalist, communist etc.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:08 am

teck21 wrote:It is interesting, but it is also written by Adam Khoo. A story from a real estate agent who previously attended one of his motivational talks, and his suggestion for real estate agents was that to make more money, all of them should just focus on selling good class bungalows. :???:

And he doesn't say anything no one doesn't already know, unless they choose not to see.


Actually he make good sense on the bungalows. If all you do is focus on them, you will eventually gain the necessary reputation that will have both seller AND buyers flocking to you without the unending hustle that is necessary for the generic real estate con-artist. Setting yourself up at a certain level, eventually will find yourself there instead of down in the trenches with the multitude of everyday con-artists. You become a specialist.

Oh, most motivational speaker don't tell you anything new. They all use common sense. The problem is, the average person is looking for a magic bullet. (kind of like the weight loss industry here - nobody wants to work for it, but just wants to pop a pill and wake up a new person). :wink:

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Postby ksl » Mon, 15 Mar 2010 3:35 pm

They all excel in their field, and I think most are better on paper then any expat I meet.
I was really shocked to discover that exams are tick tests, chose the right answer from a choice of 4. WTF is that it, they can't drive either, if that's anything to go by.

Are tick tests in all exams world wide these days? I could have several PhD by now :lol: Everything was plain memory when i was at school and the final dictation of the answer had to be correct not one word.

I also did extended maths and language at 10th grade in the Danish language in the 80's but do not recall any tick tests, or choice answers my first introduction to Algebra in my late 30's.

My daughter came home with straight A in science and when i looked at the exam papers, I thought how easy it was...though i see she is still having difficulty understanding some questions in English comprehension, like most of the class apparently.

3 times I have had to say her maths answers are correct in maths, and the teachers answer is actually wrong and asked the teacher to confirm this. Which she came back with I forgot to update, the answers.

It was confirmed that some material is not correct from the publishers, especially some English books.

I worry quite a bit about the quality of teaching to be honest and also ethics in the class room, when some students are stealing from others and teacher doesn't tackle the problem when the children report it.

The hardest time for me just now is handling my rebellious 9 year old, because i have cut off all financial rewards, that mum used to give, so a screaming rebellious response has been the feedback....better that then a blackmailing child, just to do her home work.

Motivation for her doing home work is zero, at the moment and we all want our children to do better in school, though it is quite clear to me that parental pressure doesn't work, kids either want to do it, or they do not.

The extra tuition isn't really required in my book for kids, my wife thinks it is...But i know from my own rebellious life, that it isn't, self discipline comes first. So some sort of order and routine must be obeyed by the child, before one can move forward, rewards for completing tasks maybe fine, but when a child tries to turn it around and dictates the rules, that's when it stops...

Yes far too many children are spoilt and it doesn't help them at all, to get to much too quickly.

Now my daughter has just come home and asked me what is leadership.

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Postby Koalabear » Tue, 16 Mar 2010 3:57 am

well the structured nature of Singapore's education system and how the government perversely values academic excellence is one big factor why students turn out to be dull. Sure Singapore churn out very good test takers, but from my observation in military some of these very good test takers lack fundamental soft skills. Some of the people I admire most during NS are the ones from polytechnics who had such a long history of working hard jobs in different industries that put me to shame.

when I studied overseas, I am amazed at how young students plan their future THEMSELVES and make an effort to achieve it. I've seen kids as young as 13, setting up their own stand, selling ice creams and hot dogs to the neighborhood, doing charity work actively and network with adults. How did they do that? They can do it because parents do not intervene and force them to study piano and violin and other sorts of crap. They understand that academic excellence is just a small integer in the equation and the society values the WHOLE package. (NYC helicopter parents are an anomaly)

Singapore on the other hand ldraws a line in the grades for most of the school programmes. 270 good for RI, 269 not good enough, 4As can go univ, 3As cannot. Is is any wonder why parents are stressed out over grades instead of their children's incompetent skillsets and attitude to life? This generation seem to feel entitled to a good job just because their grades are goods.

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Postby utopia » Tue, 16 Mar 2010 8:39 am

I disagree with a number of parts in Adam Khoo's article.

Singapore embraced their education system to build the 'knowledge worker', which entails more earning capacity then a medial worker or laborer (compared to its neighbours).
With better (best?) grades, you do get into better schools and the local University.
There is 24 hours a day, so if studying becomes the primary, overriding focus, where are the the other aspects of development ?
Additionally, there are whole parts of the education system - English Lit / History for example, which requires you to regurgitate texts that have been already over-analysed for years, and not really to 'ask' questions.
Add in the natural competitiveness and 'face' of the parents of the students, and you get a society that grew up skewed/unbalanced.
With better (best?) grades/qualifications, males are rewarded in NS with rank. Application for government-linked jobs is directly tied against your paper qualifications.
During all this development processes, 'breaking the rules' is harshly dealt with. Make a mistake or transgression, and it will likely to be on your records for eternity.


Enter the expats / foreign talent, with their different view of the world, with balanced upbringing, and where risk-taking is potentially rewarded, and thinking-outside-the-box, and if they occur, mistakes are a part of learning process.

I would say it requires a calculated change in the education and upbringing process.

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Postby Koalabear » Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:51 am

utopia wrote:I disagree with a number of parts in Adam Khoo's article.

Singapore embraced their education system to build the 'knowledge worker', which entails more earning capacity then a medial worker or laborer (compared to its neighbours).
With better (best?) grades, you do get into better schools and the local University.
There is 24 hours a day, so if studying becomes the primary, overriding focus, where are the the other aspects of development ?
Additionally, there are whole parts of the education system - English Lit / History for example, which requires you to regurgitate texts that have been already over-analysed for years, and not really to 'ask' questions.
Add in the natural competitiveness and 'face' of the parents of the students, and you get a society that grew up skewed/unbalanced.
With better (best?) grades/qualifications, males are rewarded in NS with rank. Application for government-linked jobs is directly tied against your paper qualifications.
During all this development processes, 'breaking the rules' is harshly dealt with. Make a mistake or transgression, and it will likely to be on your records for eternity.


Enter the expats / foreign talent, with their different view of the world, with balanced upbringing, and where risk-taking is potentially rewarded, and thinking-outside-the-box, and if they occur, mistakes are a part of learning process.

I would say it requires a calculated change in the education and upbringing process.


+1

However I realize that Singapore has its constraints and with a small population mass, the economy is better served by someone central calling in the shots after rigorous analysis instead of everyone performing disoriented work. Since Singapore cannot compete with larger countries in terms of creativity, she has to find an attainable niche to keep the country going. Singapore has been making progress at the education issues but sadly, FTs are the only way to keep the nation relevant. Your education policies can only change as fast as your people's mentality evolve and globalization do not wait for your society to evolve.

Its a fact foreigners have the luxury of more choices and exposure than most Singaporeans have. Its not the govt's fault, but a sad reality of life.

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Re: The Expats Will Rule Singapore!

Postby JR8 » Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:47 pm

Adam Khoo: The expats will rule Singapore
...It is a quality that our grandfathers and great-grandfathers (who came from distant lands) had that turned Singapore from a fishing village to the third richest country in the world (according to GDP per capita). ...


Apart from for the wurst-gobblers at Pravda, [can I say that? 8-)] GDP per capita is not a useful measure of 'richness' in any shape or form.

You have to consider cost of living. For example if I live in a country where I earn $30k, but a 2 bed flat is 10 times my annual salary, am I 'richer' than living in a country earning $20k, and the same flat being 5 times my salary? Of course not.

So you need to use Purchasing Power Parity...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... y_GDP_(PPP)

...in those terms, you will see that SG is in the low 40's ranking from 170/180 countries. Lower than China, India, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, (Romania (!)), Philippines, and Vietnam.

Which just highlights how excruciatingly expensive this country is compared to it's neighbours. And how realtively POOR it's people are.

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Re: The Expats Will Rule Singapore!

Postby Splatted » Fri, 26 Mar 2010 1:18 pm

JR8 wrote:You have to consider cost of living. For example if I live in a country where I earn $30k, but a 2 bed flat is 10 times my annual salary, am I 'richer' than living in a country earning $20k, and the same flat being 5 times my salary? Of course not.


Well, it really depends....

You would really have to look at the net income.. income tax can be 30-50% in one country, whilst only, say, 0-15% in others.

It may end up that the cost of living is higher in one country, but the amount of disposable income you have left will still allow pay off that property overseas faster than you would have if you stayed in your home country.

And this is probably off-topic, but there's also capital gains. In some countries the value of the property will only incrementally increase, while in others it's not uncommon to have doubled 2x in value over the last 5 years.

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Postby Asdracles » Fri, 26 Mar 2010 1:25 pm

You are checking the wrong link. If you check just the country GDP, a country with 5 million people will be always behind much more populated countries as those you wrote about.

If you check the GDP per capita PPP, Singapore is around 3/5/6 in the World according with different sources. More logical, as it counts the GDP that each person manages

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 26 Mar 2010 1:46 pm

Asdracles wrote:You are checking the wrong link. If you check just the country GDP, a country with 5 million people will be always behind much more populated countries as those you wrote about.

If you check the GDP per capita PPP, Singapore is around 3/5/6 in the World according with different sources. More logical, as it counts the GDP that each person manages


From the original article, as quoted, 'according to GDP per capita'. <Squinting> that takes into account, the number of people in different countries.

Anyway, I get a feeling this is going nowehere...

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 26 Mar 2010 2:06 pm

JR8 wrote:Anyway, I get a feeling this is going nowehere...


At least, it's not getting deleted. 8-)

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 26 Mar 2010 2:25 pm

nakatago wrote:
JR8 wrote:Anyway, I get a feeling this is going nowehere...


At least, it's not getting deleted. 8-)



Hahahaha! Yeah in the other place they'd have wiped the whole topic days ago... Before it even started if they could do it, probably.

Ha!

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Postby Asdracles » Fri, 26 Mar 2010 7:46 pm

JR8 wrote:From the original article, as quoted, 'according to GDP per capita'. <Squinting> that takes into account, the number of people in different countries.


I just refer to your wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... per_capita

Singapore is 5-3-6 according to different sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _%28PPP%29

Singapore is 45-46-47 according to different sources

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Postby ksl » Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:29 pm

Well Sing $ will do me fine just now! :)


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