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Born overseas - Renouncing Singapore Citizenship

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Mad Scientist
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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:30 am

Koalabear wrote:What if one works overseas and go back for reservice?? I don't mind paying ticket if they reimburse my overseas SALARY!!


Yes, they will pay your overseas salary if you can prove them that you are being employed overseas. Company letter with salary indicated, Payslip, Exit Permit etc. They are the one that justify if your claim is genuine. The make up pay claim is very easy to follow.
I suggest if you wish to serve some in-camp call CMPB anonymously and asked them if you can return to serve and the works

Good Luck

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Re: Born overseas - Renouncing Singapore Citizenship

Postby lonelyhere » Wed, 05 May 2010 5:43 pm

Hi Mad Scientist

How do you know that the transit area at Changi is not a safe place for ns defaulters to be in? Can they make a legal arrest in there for such offence?



Mad Scientist wrote:
stressless wrote:Hi guys!

take a look at my case. This doesnt make sense to me.

The case:
Born, raised, studied and currently living in Norway.
Both of my parents are Singaporeans. ----> which means that I automatically recieved the Singapore citizenship as well.

Answer : No, you did not received the SG citizenship automatically , Your parents must have applied for it. The right of SG citizenship by descent for parents of SG is allowed . But you will be consider a Minor Citizen until the age of 21 where you have to renounce one of your citizenship.
Then they got your SG passport for travel purposes

Never lived in Singapore. Only short visits.
Never applied for IC. Haven't used my Singaporean passport since the age of 16. But i did renew my passport the be able to travel to singapore.

Answer: The Red Passport has more value than the IC as the President of SG request that the country that you are visiting protect its citizen from harms way. You are under the protection of SG .I believe your parents did NOT apply for your exit permit from CMPB when you turn 13 to 16 and a half. Hence you are consider NS defaulter. When you turn 18 , you are already enlisted for NS and you did not report for NS, I believe.
SO now you being double whammied for not having an exit permit and failing to report for NS when you turn 18

Acquired Norwegian citizenship at the age of 18.

Renounced my Singaporean citizenship at the age of 21 and before me 22.th birthday.

Answer: Does not matter if you already are a Nowergian Citizen. The first part of the protocol were not done. Now you face the music.

Just recieved a letter that I'm classified as a NS defaulter.

Answer : Bingo !!


So my question is.

I'm aware that I'll never be able to visit Singapore again.


But, can I travel to Malaysia?

Answer : you can travel to M'sia but do not go by transit to SG. Direct to KL . Trust me I know.!!

And someone please answer me... Why does Singapore want me to complete the NS to renounce my Singaporean citizenship?

Answer : Your parent, I believe, has lived in SG for sometime, Maybe Dad served the army whatever for NS. He must have known this protocol.
The law was enacted in the 1967 but amendment were made till 2005 Feb . More so after the piano man debacle. They have tighten the law on this as tight as the vacuum hull. You should asked your parent this question instead.

That's definitly not a good deal. So I'm disappointed that Singapore doesnt see that thats not representing a good "business deal" as they country is known for.
Answer: What "good business deal" are you referring to ? This has nothing to do anything with business. This is the SG Consititution which was enacted in 1965 before you are born.
Go the nsportal.gov.sg or ica.gov.sg or mindef.gov.sg or Ministry of Home Affairs or google countries that has NS as a compulsory thing for Male. You will be surprised the number countries that have this .

Look, I am not for or against NS, but if your parents did not follow the protocol to renounce and now you are in a quandary



Norway is the one that have paid all the expenses for my studies and healthcare.

Answer : SG Gahmen REALLY DO NOT CARE even if you are paid by the President of America.

Why doesnt Singapore allow me to work and pay tax to them?


Answer : It does not work that way. They do not want your money !! They want YOUR BODY AND SOUL !!! Capisce !!
:cool:

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Re: Born overseas - Renouncing Singapore Citizenship

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 05 May 2010 6:05 pm

lonelyhere wrote:Hi Mad Scientist

How do you know that the transit area at Changi is not a safe place for ns defaulters to be in? Can they make a legal arrest in there for such offence?


Please do not post question on three different thread. Mods will frown upon it.

I think SMS has answered your question.

I cannot answer your question if you do not tell me your issue. A one sentence question does not equate to a proper answer. :shock:
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Buy my self out

Postby stressless » Tue, 01 Jun 2010 10:29 pm

I read that the fine is $10 000 SGD or 3 years jail.

If I choose to pay the fine. could i renounce my citizenship then?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 01 Jun 2010 11:16 pm

Yes, after you pay the fine, spend the time in jail and upon your release you will still have to do your NS before you can renounce.

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Re: Buy my self out

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 02 Jun 2010 4:58 am

stressless wrote:I read that the fine is $10 000 SGD or 3 years jail.

If I choose to pay the fine. could i renounce my citizenship then?



You do not get to choose. This is not a game of monoploy.

The court decide which cause of action to be fallen on you. If you are over 30 chances are bigger fine and longer jail time and still serve the NS, if you are below between 22 to 30 more fine, shorter jail time and still serve NS, below 22 more fine no jail time but still serve NS
If you are above 40 more fine and longer jail time equates JAIL HOUSE ROCK !!

When either one is done and dusted, then you can renounce
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Got it

Postby stressless » Wed, 02 Jun 2010 7:54 pm

Today I recieved PR from Singapore

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Re: Got it

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 02 Jun 2010 10:17 pm

stressless wrote:Today I recieved PR from Singapore


Congratulations. I hope. :-|

National Service Liability

Under the Enlistment Act, all male Singapore Citizens and Permanent Residents are liable to register for National Service (NS) upon reaching 16½ years old. They are required to serve 2 years of full-time NS at 18 years old, followed by 40 days of Operationally Ready National Service per year till the age of 50 years (for officers) or 40 years (for other ranks).

Main applicants who are granted PR status under the first generation Professionals/Technical Personnel and Skilled Workers (PTS) Scheme and the Investor Scheme are exempted from NS. Male children who are granted PR status under their parents' sponsorship are liable for NS under the Enlistment Act.

All NS-liable males aged 13 years old and above, are required to obtain an Exit Permit (EP) when travelling overseas for 3 months or more.

NS-liable PRs are expected to serve NS. Renouncing or losing one's PR status without serving or completing full-time NS would have an adverse impact on any immediate or future applications to work or study in Singapore, or for Singapore citizenship or PR status.

Males who are granted Singapore PR, and who were previously Singapore Citizens or Singapore Permanent Residents, are liable to be called up for NS regardless of the type of PR status they have been granted. For further enquiries, please write to:

Central Manpower Base
CMPB Podium
3, Depot Road
Singapore 109680
Tel : 1800-3676767 (local)
65-65676767 (overseas)
Email: contact@ns.sg

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Re: Born overseas - Renouncing Singapore Citizenship

Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 06 Jun 2010 9:37 am

stressless wrote: This doesnt make sense to me.

Acquired Norwegian citizenship at the age of 18.

Renounced my Singaporean citizenship at the age of 21 and before me 22.th birthday.

Just recieved a letter that I'm classified as a NS defaulter.




Today I recieved PR from Singapore


Stressless

I have been doing some research on your issue. Based on what you inform us as per the above, it really does not makes sense to me.If you want us to advise you and for the benefit of other who may be in your similar situation. I have not come across this course of action by the Gahmen which may prove what I understand from my days there to be wrong.

1. As you said you are allow to renounce but now received NS defaulter letter from Mindef.
Questions
a. How , when and where did you renounce i.e Singapore or Norway
b. If you are allow to renounce, why did CMPB sent you are defaulter notice section 12 a or b
c. How, where and when did you apply for PR ?
d. How long does it took ?

These info that you gave us contradict to the Enlistment Act Chap 93 and Section 33 of the same act and NS Reservist Act too.
ICA has no control over NS defaulter which comes under CMPB jurisdiction. As such allowing you to renounce and allowing you to apply and approve your PR contradict the whole Act itself.
Please share with us that may help others in your similar position

MS

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Postby ltw1977 » Tue, 08 Jun 2010 8:43 pm

Hi to all

I am new here ... and not sure if I should start a new thread or just 'hijack' this one.

My situation is as follow;

Son was born 9-Apr-10 (now 2 mths old) in Australia and now holding Australia passport. Also applied for Singapore citizenship ... but realise do not want son to attend NS ... so please advise what needs to be done.

From my reading, apply for deferment pending renouncement at the age of 11 and then go for renouncement at age of 21.

I know should not have apply for one to avoid all these inconvenience ...

Appreciate any feedback.

Cheers

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 08 Jun 2010 10:34 pm

ltw1977 wrote:Hi to all

I am new here ... and not sure if I should start a new thread or just 'hijack' this one.

My situation is as follow;

Son was born 9-Apr-10 (now 2 mths old) in Australia and now holding Australia passport. Also applied for Singapore citizenship ... but realise do not want son to attend NS ... so please advise what needs to be done.

From my reading, apply for deferment pending renouncement at the age of 11 and then go for renouncement at age of 21.

I know should not have apply for one to avoid all these inconvenience ...

Appreciate any feedback.

Cheers


Just have a thorough read of the following thread....

ftopic61423.html

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 09 Jun 2010 4:22 am

ltw1977 wrote:Hi to all
My situation is as follow;

Son was born 9-Apr-10 (now 2 mths old) in Australia and now holding Australia passport. Also applied for Singapore citizenship ... but realise do not want son to attend NS ... so please advise what needs to be done.

From my reading, apply for deferment pending renouncement at the age of 11 and then go for renouncement at age of 21.

I know should not have apply for one to avoid all these inconvenience ...

Cheers


SMS , just to share info with you, he can do it now if he informs ICA that he does not want the child to hold SG Citizenship. If the child applied for SG PP, he should return it NOW to ICA.
Once done, ICA will reply to the parents that the child is no more a SG Citizen and his SG PP has been canceled. Once this is done, No Ns , No EP and no worries
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Postby ltw1977 » Wed, 09 Jun 2010 10:03 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
ltw1977 wrote:Hi to all

I am new here ... and not sure if I should start a new thread or just 'hijack' this one.

My situation is as follow;

Son was born 9-Apr-10 (now 2 mths old) in Australia and now holding Australia passport. Also applied for Singapore citizenship ... but realise do not want son to attend NS ... so please advise what needs to be done.

From my reading, apply for deferment pending renouncement at the age of 11 and then go for renouncement at age of 21.

I know should not have apply for one to avoid all these inconvenience ...

Appreciate any feedback.

Cheers


Just have a thorough read of the following thread....

ftopic61423.html


Thanks for the link - i should have searched on NS to get the FAQ ...

As stated from the link ...
The only way a male Singaporean citizen can legally avoid NS is if he
1) has another citizenship before the age of 11
=> already australia citizen as born here.

2) informs Mindef of his intention to renounce Singaporean citizenship and applies for the necessary exit permits from the age of 13 and obtains deferment at 18
=> I understand have to apply for Exit Permit within 3 months past 13 years old.
(How long does the Exit Permit is valid for - is it a yearly thingy?)
=> Obtain a deferment to serve NS till age of 21.


3) does not use or benefit from Singaporean citizenship after 11
=> I did not apply for Singapore passport, just citizenship.
=> However, we did apply for the singapore baby bonus - how will this affect us? Can we refund back the baby bouns?


4) finally renounces Singaporean citizenship at 21

Further questions;
1. After getting the Exit Permit, can he return to Singapore to study (if we decided to move back to Singapore) - before the age of 18, and then will proceed with NS and will not renounce SG citizenship.

2. After renouncement of Sg citizenship after age 21, can he return to sg to apply for EP, PR or even Citizenship?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 09 Jun 2010 10:33 am

[quote="ltw1977"]


already australia citizen as born here.
I understand have to apply for Exit Permit within 3 months past 13 years old.

Correct

(How long does the Exit Permit is valid for - is it a yearly thingy?)
YOu can apply for One Year and 364 days witout any bonds. More than 2yrs require bond of $75K or 2 sureties

=> Obtain a deferment to serve NS till age of 21.[/b][/color]

Correct and when he turn 13 to get the deferment pending renunciation

3) does not use or benefit from Singaporean citizenship after 11

I did not apply for Singapore passport, just citizenship.


See my earlier post

=> However, we did apply for the singapore baby bonus - how will this affect us? Can we refund back the baby bonus?

It depends on whether ICA wants you to refund or not. Best to declare now your intention as it is within the one year . ICA will review your case but I was informed that "in usual practise" it will be accepted. If you do this now, you do not have to go to
all the steps from 13 to 21 unless you are not telling us the whole picture, this is what we can advise you.

4) finally renounces Singaporean citizenship at 21

Yes, correct

Further questions;
1. After getting the Exit Permit, can he return to Singapore to study (if we decided to move back to Singapore) - before the age of 18, and then will proceed with NS and will not renounce SG citizenship.


Yes

2. After renouncement of Sg citizenship after age 21, can he return to sg to apply for EP, PR or even Citizenship?

He will be treated as a foreigner apply for EP here. No guarrantees
PR or Citizenship , NO

[/color]
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Postby kraikk » Tue, 15 Jun 2010 9:52 am

I have just gone back to bolden a very important bit of the sticky. Hopefully parents learn from ltw1977 and the experience of many others. If your child - especially a son - is born overseas and will obtain an overseas citizenship, whether by jus soli or jus sanguinis, think very carefully about the implications of registering the birth with the Singaporean embassy and getting Singaporean citizenship for him. The pros and cons are countless, so read up on your own and learn from the experiences of others in this and other forums. The big one is, of course, NS. There is no way of avoiding this, or saying "just apply now in case and we'll worry about the consequences later". Where will your family be, where do you want your children to grow up and study, are you moving back to Singapore, what is your own citizenship/ residency status, all these are questions that must be answered before the child is born.

ltw1977 does your child already have Singaporean citizenship? If the application is still in processing perhaps you can do a last minute recall of some sort, tell them you made a mistake? Or even if he is already a citizen just give ICA a call; legally citizenship cannot be renounced until 21 but if your child is only 2 months old just give it a shot. Same for the baby bonus, all this is really uncharted territory.

If not then the EP, deferment, renunciation route stated by Mad Scientist is the way to go.

BUT I get the sense that you are trying to keep your options open for your son. In that case remember that you only have until the age of 11 to decide, once he hits 11 and is still a citizen, NS is unavoidable. There is no problem returning to Singapore with an Exit Permit and serving NS. This will delay his decision time until 22, when he must still choose between Australian and Singaporean citizenship.

The renouncement after 21 issue is something I'm quite interested in. I would like to hear if anyone has any anecdotes on ex-Singaporeans applying for EP, PR, or citizenship. Those who renounce for good reason usually will not try to return to Singapore again, but I would like to know about any experiences in this area.


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