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Born overseas - Renouncing Singapore Citizenship

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Born overseas - Renouncing Singapore Citizenship

Postby stressless » Thu, 04 Mar 2010 8:41 pm

Hi guys!

take a look at my case. This doesnt make sense to me.

The case:
Born, raised, studied and currently living in Norway.
Both of my parents are Singaporeans. ----> which means that I automatically recieved the Singapore citizenship as well.

Never lived in Singapore. Only short visits.
Never applied for IC. Haven't used my Singaporean passport since the age of 16. But i did renew my passport the be able to travel to singapore.


Acquired Norwegian citizenship at the age of 18.

Renounced my Singaporean citizenship at the age of 21 and before me 22.th birthday.

Just recieved a letter that I'm classified as a NS defaulter.




So my question is.

I'm aware that I'll never be able to visit Singapore again.


But, can I travel to Malaysia?

And someone please answer me... Why does Singapore want me to complete the NS to renounce my Singaporean citizenship?
That's definitly not a good deal. So I'm disappointed that Singapore doesnt see that thats not representing a good "business deal" as they country is known for.

Norway is the one that have paid all the expenses for my studies and healthcare.
Why doesnt Singapore allow me to work and pay tax to them?

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Re: Born overseas - Renouncing Singapore Citizenship

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 5:01 am

stressless wrote:Hi guys!

take a look at my case. This doesnt make sense to me.

The case:
Born, raised, studied and currently living in Norway.
Both of my parents are Singaporeans. ----> which means that I automatically recieved the Singapore citizenship as well.

Answer : No, you did not received the SG citizenship automatically , Your parents must have applied for it. The right of SG citizenship by descent for parents of SG is allowed . But you will be consider a Minor Citizen until the age of 21 where you have to renounce one of your citizenship.
Then they got your SG passport for travel purposes

Never lived in Singapore. Only short visits.
Never applied for IC. Haven't used my Singaporean passport since the age of 16. But i did renew my passport the be able to travel to singapore.

Answer: The Red Passport has more value than the IC as the President of SG request that the country that you are visiting protect its citizen from harms way. You are under the protection of SG .I believe your parents did NOT apply for your exit permit from CMPB when you turn 13 to 16 and a half. Hence you are consider NS defaulter. When you turn 18 , you are already enlisted for NS and you did not report for NS, I believe.
SO now you being double whammied for not having an exit permit and failing to report for NS when you turn 18

Acquired Norwegian citizenship at the age of 18.

Renounced my Singaporean citizenship at the age of 21 and before me 22.th birthday.

Answer: Does not matter if you already are a Nowergian Citizen. The first part of the protocol were not done. Now you face the music.

Just recieved a letter that I'm classified as a NS defaulter.

Answer : Bingo !!


So my question is.

I'm aware that I'll never be able to visit Singapore again.


But, can I travel to Malaysia?

Answer : you can travel to M'sia but do not go by transit to SG. Direct to KL . Trust me I know.!!

And someone please answer me... Why does Singapore want me to complete the NS to renounce my Singaporean citizenship?

Answer : Your parent, I believe, has lived in SG for sometime, Maybe Dad served the army whatever for NS. He must have known this protocol.
The law was enacted in the 1967 but amendment were made till 2005 Feb . More so after the piano man debacle. They have tighten the law on this as tight as the vacuum hull. You should asked your parent this question instead.

That's definitly not a good deal. So I'm disappointed that Singapore doesnt see that thats not representing a good "business deal" as they country is known for.
Answer: What "good business deal" are you referring to ? This has nothing to do anything with business. This is the SG Consititution which was enacted in 1965 before you are born.
Go the nsportal.gov.sg or ica.gov.sg or mindef.gov.sg or Ministry of Home Affairs or google countries that has NS as a compulsory thing for Male. You will be surprised the number countries that have this .

Look, I am not for or against NS, but if your parents did not follow the protocol to renounce and now you are in a quandary



Norway is the one that have paid all the expenses for my studies and healthcare.

Answer : SG Gahmen REALLY DO NOT CARE even if you are paid by the President of America.

Why doesnt Singapore allow me to work and pay tax to them?


Answer : It does not work that way. They do not want your money !! They want YOUR BODY AND SOUL !!! Capisce !!
:cool:

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Thanks

Postby stressless » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 5:45 am

Hi again...

"
[color=red]Answer : It does not work that way. They do not want your money !! They want YOUR BODY AND SOUL !!! Capisce !!
"[/color]



You forgot "money".

If I gave a casino like Marina Bay Sands to ... It would have solved my "problem".

nothing else...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 7:01 am

Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me. The facts are there. And sadly, the only people you have to look to for "why did this happen, is your parents for applying for and getting you a Singapore Passport and not following protocol in getting you an exit permit. You were a Singapore Citizen for 21 years and regardless of where you are in the world, that obligation follows you.

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Postby utopia » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 7:54 am

What's with the tone?

If anyone, it should be your Singaporean parents whom should be facing the blunt of your anger for leading you into this situation by not doing their homework.
Ignorance / apathy of the law is generally frowned upon Singapore, although you can attempt to get a lawyer to plead your case.

SG didn't make these rules specially or personally just for you.

As for the snide remark on money/ Marina Bay Sands , obviously you don't have that option, or... do you? Anyway, if you did have that sort of resources, you'll find that /many/ countries will make similar problems 'go away', not just Singapore.

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Re: Thanks

Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 8:11 am

stressless wrote:Hi again...

"
[color=red]Answer : It does not work that way. They do not want your money !! They want YOUR BODY AND SOUL !!! Capisce !!
"[/color]



You forgot "money".

If I gave a casino like Marina Bay Sands to ... It would have solved my "problem".

nothing else...


Look , my bad, maybe I am bit harsh on you.

I think you have gone thru several threads on these issue. I believe you did not get the answer what you wanted. Hence I suggested you asked your parents on this.

Hell, I have boys of my own about the same age as you. But I did all the research as a responsible parent and all the contingency of what "if" situations. My boys are already home free

If you want to give Money to the casino, why don't you haul yourself back to SG and give it to them personally if you can pass thru the border control..

You can do two ways on this.
1. Served and then renounce and you still can come back to work on EP or WP or visit.
2. OR run for your whole entire life and never come back to SG.
BTW to all who read this ; the last person Mindel prosecute is 2009 age 65. Caught at the border control.
DO not ask me how I know this. I KNOW !!

It is a bitter pill to swallow but you can choose to ignore



:cool:
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 8:52 am

MS,

Why is it, that when you try to help people by dispensing information that we have gleened from numerous posting and our real life experiences, that they don't want to accept the truth and accept that their "case" is not unique or different. Almost all the cases are because the parents didn't do their due diligence "before" immigrating. They treat immigration like it's something people do all the time. When are they going to learn that immigration has life long consequences for all parties concerned. Parents need to start looking out for their children instead of only thinking about themselves. For every smart one who did their homework, like yourself & myself, there are two who only though about themselves and not the possible repercussions for their offspring.

And then, to make matters worse, they get mad at us for telling them the truth! :?

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Re: Thanks

Postby utopia » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 10:12 am

Mad Scientist wrote:If you want to give Money to the casino....

I don't think he's talking about gambling, I think he's referring to funding the entire project.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 10:33 am

Utopia

Either way he has to haul himself back :wink:

SMS

What can I say, it is a free world but not all is free when you are living in this world. They can take it somewhere else, be grumpy, upset, kick their butt whatever . At the end of the day the truth is very painful and hard to swallow. You can run but you cannot hide

Stressless

Many years from now if chose to scoot and you forget everything about your conviction. YOu will regret and shocked when you being hauled and caught in SG border control for no apparent reason. A crime that you committed years before :lol:

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Postby stressless » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 2:42 pm

The fact is that, I would have been stateless for 18 years or so, if my parents didnt have applied for my passport.

The exit permit is indeed a mistake that we made.


Anyways....
My mom makes the best nonya laksa (yes... we have all the fresh ingredients here too.. 8-) ) Even though it's like minus 14 degrees now.

So whats the deal.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 3:44 pm

stressless wrote:The fact is that, I would have been stateless for 18 years or so, if my parents didnt have applied for my passport.

The exit permit is indeed a mistake that we made.


Anyways....
My mom makes the best nonya laksa (yes... we have all the fresh ingredients here too.. 8-) ) Even though it's like minus 14 degrees now.

So whats the deal.


Incorrect. You are never stateless. You are there by virtue of holding SG passport. Yes, now you have Norwegian Passport. But SG Gahmen Amended Law stipulate that you can only hold one passport after 21.
Since you are born there, you must have Norwegian passport first to travel back to SG and apply for SG passport.
Hence either way you have to face this fact.

There is really no big deal at this moment of time unless opportunity arises in the near future that requires you back to SG like the piano man.
So please you do not have to show me your stuck up face here as if it is no big deal if you do not want to hear what we are telling you.

BTW I live in Motala ,Sweden and Sekesferhervar Hungary before so it is no big deal about minus 14 degrees !!

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 05 Mar 2010 4:55 pm

BTW Things I forgot to mention. If you chose not to return, this is what they will do to your extended family living here in SG if you have one
1. The CMPB will call and make house visit to locate you for the next six month.
2. They will call your grandparents especially and make them realise that your grandparent is harbouring a NS defaulters.
3. Then they will have a go at your parents siblings
4. They will create such a mess that they make you like a "convicted killer" on the run.
5. I believe your parent still hold SG passport, try renewing their passport the next time it expire.
6. If your parent hold HDB flat and CPF here there is another spots that they can take pot shot on you
7. A letter will be send to the Norwegian Embassy in SG for notification of defaultment of SGer.
8.To locate you is not difficult, hell , I did those things b4

So... unless you find this NO BIG DEAL then go ahead choose this path & Good Luck to your journey ahead !!
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Postby Koalabear » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:19 am

Mad Scientist wrote:BTW Things I forgot to mention. If you chose not to return, this is what they will do to your extended family living here in SG if you have one
1. The CMPB will call and make house visit to locate you for the next six month.
2. They will call your grandparents especially and make them realise that your grandparent is harbouring a NS defaulters.
3. Then they will have a go at your parents siblings
4. They will create such a mess that they make you like a "convicted killer" on the run.
5. I believe your parent still hold SG passport, try renewing their passport the next time it expire.
6. If your parent hold HDB flat and CPF here there is another spots that they can take pot shot on you
7. A letter will be send to the Norwegian Embassy in SG for notification of defaultment of SGer.
8.To locate you is not difficult, hell , I did those things b4

So... unless you find this NO BIG DEAL then go ahead choose this path & Good Luck to your journey ahead !!


Interesting stuff. I know 1,2,5,6,8 but not the rest.

Just a question I have. One of my friend's dad is working in Singapore but mum is in America. NS defaulter is living with his grandmother who is of Canadian/American nationality in USA. Both parents are Singaporeans.

Can the government freak the parents' life if they can prove
1) they did not habour their son at home
2) they can no longer control their son since in North America, 18 years old is the legal age to be adult and it is illegal for them to command their son to return Singapore?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 11 Mar 2010 3:15 am

Koalabear wrote:Just a question I have. One of my friend's dad is working in Singapore but mum is in America. NS defaulter is living with his grandmother who is of Canadian/American nationality in USA. Both parents are Singaporeans.

Can the government freak the parents' life if they can prove
1) they did not habour their son at home

Answer: Yes, they did not harbour their son at home BUT they are his legal guardian. Not freak as per se but the parent passports, especially will be monitored. They will have difficulties in applying for renewal etc.....

[color=blue]Answer: Legal age to vote is 21.So you can make this argument but at the end of the day SG Gahmen call the shot.It all depends whether Mindef, CMPB, ICA and the works would want to make an example of the parents ,for would be or already had, of child that was required to return to serve NS, scoot but fail to return or refuse.



My points that I have written before were based on my previous work life experience.
There is a quota for NS men in the roll call on every reporting intake. They have to meet that quota so......... I leave it to you to imagine

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Postby Koalabear » Thu, 11 Mar 2010 4:07 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
Koalabear wrote:Just a question I have. One of my friend's dad is working in Singapore but mum is in America. NS defaulter is living with his grandmother who is of Canadian/American nationality in USA. Both parents are Singaporeans.

Can the government freak the parents' life if they can prove
1) they did not habour their son at home

Answer: Yes, they did not harbour their son at home BUT they are his legal guardian. Not freak as per se but the parent passports, especially will be monitored. They will have difficulties in applying for renewal etc.....

[color=blue]Answer: Legal age to vote is 21.So you can make this argument but at the end of the day SG Gahmen call the shot.It all depends whether Mindef, CMPB, ICA and the works would want to make an example of the parents ,for would be or already had, of child that was required to return to serve NS, scoot but fail to return or refuse.



My points that I have written before were based on my previous work life experience.
There is a quota for NS men in the roll call on every reporting intake. They have to meet that quota so......... I leave it to you to imagine


But they always meet the quota don't they? NS defaulters are negligible numbers like less than 1%?

If i look at examples of piano man parents, norwegian dad who still work in Singapore, I think what they can do to the parents to be limited, unless they suspect parents have actively helped their son default NS.


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