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still is "singaporeans speak singlish"

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:02 am

We could nit-pick all day. :roll:

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:05 am

"DUN WAN"

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:29 am

I sitting in the Chicago airport waiting for my flight for my return to Singers. Batteries are recharging and I'm loaded for bear but I'll refrain from this as from her other posts I can see she's looking for a tiff and I'm in too good/bad a mood (don't really want to return at all). :-(

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Postby treacle_sponge » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 2:29 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I sitting in the Chicago airport waiting for my flight for my return to Singers. Batteries are recharging and I'm loaded for bear but I'll refrain from this as from her other posts I can see she's looking for a tiff and I'm in too good/bad a mood (don't really want to return at all). :-(


Are you referring to me? Are all the mods this welcoming to newbies? :roll: I'm not looking for a tiff, so you've got the wrong end of the stick there. I could take umbrage but I'm in a generous mood so I'm allowing the fact that you're sat waiting for a flight to account for your post. Looking for a tiff indeed! Humph! *flounce off thread*

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Postby breedmon » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 3:04 am

Splatted wrote:
So, enlighten us why you think it's only 60%? And please don't quote some government poll.

Even the friends I've met that have a "good" working English, tend to prefer to switch to Chinese or other language when going out in groups of 2 or more. It simply feels more natural to talk in their parents tongue. What does this tell you?

Are you suggesting that all these years, every single person I have met in Singapore is a 'helicopter Chinese'? By your quoted 60% percentage, it should suggest that at least 40% of all the people I have met prefer to speak English at home.

Tell me.. .where is this 40% of "prefer-to-speak-English-at home" population hiding?

Lastly, you stated "My experience with Singaporeans who speak English at home tells me that most speak Standard English or mild Singlish."

Again, I have to question - how do you really know? Have you lived abroad in any English-speaking countries for extended periods of time?

My parents, who both don't speak English as a first language, are a good example of what I mean. My father would often correct my mother's grammar, thinking his English was spot on. Yet, in actuality his version of English was just as bad as hers. How is he to know any different?

Having met quite a few of my wife's old school friends and colleagues from work, I found that there are words that they were simply taught incorrectly. I mentioned the word "flour" in an earlier post.

Every one of my wife's friends pronounce the word as "fla" (rhymes with car). They are all confident that that's the way they have always been taught, and their story checks out later when I watched a cooking show on Channel 5 and the cook also mispronounced this word.

The point is, when everyone is using a word incorrectly, it suddenly becomes mainstream.

Another pet peeve of mine is the word "hair saloon' (rather than hair salon) If you live in the US, UK or Australia, the word 'saloon' conjures up images of the old western movies where cowboys play cards, and drink beer, whilst watching a row of women doing the can-can on the stage.

Yet, this word is mainstream in Singapore, and I would say many people who have indicated English is their "first" language in Singapore would be oblivious as to the words correct meaning.

So, you'll forgive me if I don't take your word for it that all the people you know who speak English as a first language, speak "standard English".


It is obvious that you know very little about Singapore. You probably only mix with your own kind, don't you.? Your friends who speak Chinese after work are obviously Chinese first language speakers. There are 4 official languages in Spore and people have different first languages. Many people in Singapore speak broken English as they use English as a second or foreign language but there are many of us who are native English speakers as well. And remember, 40% of people in Singapore are foreign born, mostly Chinese or Malaysian Chinese.

The parent tongue of many Singaporeans is English as many of our parents and their grandparents etc were all educated in English and only use English at work. Naturally, people like us only feel comfortable speaking in English. What else can your native language be if it is not what you are educated in?

As for pronunciation, Singaporeans learnt their English from the British since the 1850s. Even back then, they had radio from the UK, books and cassettes as well.

Even the educated and English speaking have different interpretations on how to pronounce words. Try getting an Australian to say basic words such as "ten"(teen) or "day"(die) etc. Basically any word with an "e" or "a" in it is being murdered by the Aussies.

Many Singaporeans have gone on to become broadcasters overseas and even the best speaker in the international debating championship last year was Singaporean.

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Postby prkravi » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 3:17 am

breedmon wrote:
Many Singaporeans have gone on to become broadcasters overseas and even the best speaker in the international debating championship last year was Singaporean.


You are talking about 0.01% of Singaporeans here. Admit it. And of those who have gone through professional training. We are talking about normal people, those who work in banks and big organisations, who cant get LIFT right... I always here things like "I'm in the Liff, cant talk now, you call later can wat?

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Postby prkravi » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 3:25 am

breedmon wrote:As for pronunciation, Singaporeans learnt their English from the British since the 1850s. Even back then, they had radio from the UK, books and cassettes as well.


Sadly, it hasn't helped!

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Postby breedmon » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 3:40 am

prkravi wrote:
breedmon wrote:
Many Singaporeans have gone on to become broadcasters overseas and even the best speaker in the international debating championship last year was Singaporean.


You are talking about 0.01% of Singaporeans here. Admit it. And of those who have gone through professional training. We are talking about normal people, those who work in banks and big organisations, who cant get LIFT right... I always here things like "I'm in the Liff, cant talk now, you call later can wat?


No amount of professional training will help if were not brought up with a strong foundation in the language. You don't see the locally born and raised Indians or Japanese winning best speaker awards like Li Shengwu or becoming broadcasters for Aljazeera or CNBC etc like Lian Pek and many others do you? The figure is around 10-20%, definitely not 0.01%. I think president Wee Kim Wee anchored for BBC or CNN in the 1940s as well. Can't recall the station. In fact, Singapore is one of the best debating teams in the world's English debating championship.

"Liff" is not a typical English speaking Singaporean's pronunciation. "You call later can wat" isn't the Sporean typical broken English aka Singlish as well .Are these people even Singaporean in the first place? Or are they Malaysians or Vietnamese? I don't think you know enough about Singapore to differentiate. 40% foreigners buddy. :(

You won't hear me defending the fact that many Sporeans do use broken Eng as they use Eng as their second or third language but many of us do use Eng as our native language and we write and speak well too.
Last edited by breedmon on Fri, 18 Feb 2011 4:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 4:07 am

breedmon wrote:As for pronunciation, Singaporeans learnt their English from the British since the 1850s. Even back then, they had radio from the UK, books and cassettes as well.



Er!, public radio broadcasts did not occur until the 1920s, ditto magnetic tape. Cassettes did not come about until the 60's.

If you want to swagger like John Wayne, make sure your guns are loaded first.

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Postby breedmon » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 4:19 am

JR8 wrote:
breedmon wrote:As for pronunciation, Singaporeans learnt their English from the British since the 1850s. Even back then, they had radio from the UK, books and cassettes as well.



Er!, public radio broadcasts did not occur until the 1920s, ditto magnetic tape. Cassettes did not come about until the 60's.

If you want to swagger like John Wayne, make sure your guns are loaded first.


Your point being? I leave the John Wayne thing to you. Eee har!

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 4:22 am

breedmon wrote:
JR8 wrote:
breedmon wrote:As for pronunciation, Singaporeans learnt their English from the British since the 1850s. Even back then, they had radio from the UK, books and cassettes as well.



Er!, public radio broadcasts did not occur until the 1920s, ditto magnetic tape. Cassettes did not come about until the 60's.

If you want to swagger like John Wayne, make sure your guns are loaded first.


Your point being? I leave the John Wayne thing to you. Eee har!


My point being that you do not know what you are talking about, apparently.

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Postby breedmon » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 4:34 am

JR8 wrote:
breedmon wrote:
JR8 wrote:
breedmon wrote:As for pronunciation, Singaporeans learnt their English from the British since the 1850s. Even back then, they had radio from the UK, books and cassettes as well.



Er!, public radio broadcasts did not occur until the 1920s, ditto magnetic tape. Cassettes did not come about until the 60's.

If you want to swagger like John Wayne, make sure your guns are loaded first.


Your point being? I leave the John Wayne thing to you. Eee har!


My point being that you do not know what you are talking about, apparently.


Is this the "just because you did not put a full stop you get zero marks for your entire compo" logic?

Besides, read what I wrote, I did not even write that radio, books and cassettes were available in the 1950s. I merely wrote that even "back then" they had radio from the UK, books and cassettes as well.

Hope that helps.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 4:49 am

breedmon wrote:As for pronunciation, Singaporeans learnt their English from the British since the 1850s. Even back then, they had radio from the UK, books and cassettes as well.


breedmon wrote:Besides, read what I wrote, I did not even write that radio, books and cassettes were available in the 1950s. I merely wrote that even "back then" they had radio from the UK, books and cassettes as well.


Does the suggestion re: John Wayne make any more sense yet? 8-)

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Postby prkravi » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 11:30 am

breedmon wrote:The figure is around 10-20%, definitely not 0.01%.


That makes you Proud? :roll:

breedmon wrote:Singapore is one of the best debating teams in the world's English debating championship.


Yeah, I keep hearing the school children and teens talking in the MRT, in a way which can be only understood by them.

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 18 Feb 2011 12:33 pm

prkravi wrote:
breedmon wrote:Singapore is one of the best debating teams in the world's English debating championship.


Yeah, I keep hearing the school children and teens talking in the MRT, in a way which can be only understood by them.


THIS.

...and I don't think Singapore debate teams are representative samples of the citizenry.


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