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Dependent Pass not allowed to incorporate a private limited

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andy_woodward
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Postby andy_woodward » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 3:48 pm

Still can't PM you :cry:

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 3:57 pm

Somehow I didn't send the last time. You have mail.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 4:58 pm

andy_woodward wrote:Still can't PM you :cry:


Make 2 more posts.

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Postby andy_woodward » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 6:27 pm

SMS,

Been looking into it, what if i had a company owner in Singapore that was prepared to set up a sole proprietor company and he employed me to run the business, therefore he would apply for a LOC for me to work for that sole proprietor company?

Is that a viable solution or are there additional pitfals to doing this? I know a number of business owners so don't think it would be a problem to get them to set up a SPC..

Answers on a postacrd....

Yours sincerely mr Frustrated.... :D

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Re: movingtosingapore

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 6:35 pm

andy_woodward wrote:Seems i have had the same problem as you in Singapore. I have lived here for 2 years and all i wanted to do was setup a Sole Propietorship company and start selling my AV and IT solutions here.

I have already setup the Sole Propietorship today and after a quick phone call to MOM asking them what i need to do on their side tell me i cannot do this and must go through the Entre Pass scheme.....

This has thrown me completely and am eager to find out out if doing a letter of consent buy yourself has worked and MOM are happy for you to operate the company now?

Any advise is mostr appreciated as i about to pull the last of my remaining hair out of my head and move to somewhere where i can actually work.


You'll notice that someone in this thread has successfully set up a SP. Rather than calling MOM and getting the run around, why nit simply apply for the LOC?

In the alternative, you could have someone with a company hire you for a fee so that you can do your work.

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Postby andy_woodward » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 6:47 pm

Agreed, that was my next move, i would be interested to hear what movingtospore had to say as they have had exactly the same problem as me.

However what hasn't been discussed is if movingtospore has actually applied for LOC or has done something different.

Maybe you can poke movingtospore for me as a newbie i still can't PM anyone.... :(

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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 7:25 pm

andy_woodward wrote:Agreed, that was my next move, i would be interested to hear what movingtospore had to say as they have had exactly the same problem as me.

However what hasn't been discussed is if movingtospore has actually applied for LOC or has done something different.

Maybe you can poke movingtospore for me as a newbie i still can't PM anyone.... :(


You now have five posts... you can poke. But see also:

http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal ... yment.html

Personally, I don't think MOM has it figured out yet. ACRA will let you set up the company. If you should fail in getting the LOC, I would immediately appeal with a business plan, estimated income, guaranteed contracts, etc.

Entrepass is for those who are not resident in Singapore. I have gone to ACRA bizfile online app and I guarantee that one of the forms of ID is a dependents pass for an SP.

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Re: movingtosingapore

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 8:19 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:You'll notice that someone in this thread has successfully set up a SP. Rather than calling MOM and getting the run around, why nit simply apply for the LOC?

In the alternative, you could have someone with a company hire you for a fee so that you can do your work.


SE, hence the reason to draw you into the discussion. I've already alluded to much the same in my earlier PM to andy.

Anyway, the one thing that movingtospore hasn't divulged here yet, and this is where my concern is, is has he done a whole cycle here yet? I don't think so. So what is going to happen when IRAS, ACRA, MOM & ICA, all using the same tax reference number, find "WOWIE, wouldja lookie here! This guy is working in Singapore and paying taxes but isn't allowed to work here. He is an illegal foreign worker. We gonna bust him gud!

When all parties, especially in this country, aren't notified, they don't take too kindly to it and then tend to like to make "examples" out of them as warnings to any other who would think they can pull the wool.

Working through another company, if you are a freelance/OMO type of earner, it the "safest" way that I can think of.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 8:37 pm

SMS... re above ^^^^

What I don't get is this.

a) Guy is in country legally, has DP, so has legal residence.
b) ACRA bizfile website lets you enter a DP FIN number to set up a company. So, nothing illegal there.
c) I've got an email from MOM stating that the LOC is almost always granted unless it is one of the businesses that wouldn't qualify for Entrepass either... palm reading, tuition, massage parlors, etc.

Nothing in the MOM website excludes an LOC to a company set up by the dependent. This is why I think Andy should push on this.

Andy, one other bit of food for thought. My company is IT related... I'm looking to extend product and service offerings... PM me if you'd like to discuss possibilities.

Cheers.

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Postby movingtospore » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 8:47 pm

Hi, yes, I have applied for an LOC on the advice of someone a bit higher up at MOM. They said if it was rejected to appeal it, as there are some at MOM who do realize that the Entrepass requirements make no sense for sole proprietors. I think the trick is not to take no for an answer, just keep gently pushing until you find someone who will actually stop and think for a minute.

I would like to tell you that I got the LOC but I can't as I have had issues with my Singpass not working...not working again...then I tried to put the application in manually through a Singpost office and they had no clue what an LOC even was. But I will get there.

Interesting thing is (not recommending this by any means) I have met several dependents pass holders here who have been happily working and paying taxes for years without an LOC. No one told them they needed one and they've never bothered...

Lord knows my head is spinning with the bureaucracy in this little island but I shall perservere.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 05 Apr 2010 9:18 pm

movingtospore, please let us know of the outcomes and glitches so that we can compile it in one place so the next guy doesn't have to do it as well. That what we do here, SE, JP, myself are all paying it forward. Hope you will do the same.

SE, it's highly possibly. They could have completely overlooked something like that. Wonder how long it will last?

I would like to see or hear from someone who has actually done a complete cycle here to see if all government parties are in sync. And yes, I'm sure that there are DP's here working without letter's of consent or any type of employment pass. Frankly, some of the stuff I've see here would boggle the mind but at the end of the day, what is being done is a gamble if all agencies aren't on the same page. Therefore one runs a risk. The potential of that happening are pretty good given the gahmen's ability to turn on a dime when it come to regulations that are being abused. Use it while you can? Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead. Like the S.Korean corvette, watchout for loose mines floating around. :o

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Postby ksl » Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:58 am

I think you will discover that commercial law still stands, and that no statues are passed with regards to setting up business or paying 50.000$ to do so....though MOM does have the authority to make rules as it is an arm of the government, though these rules are not laws.

ACRA being completely dependant on law must abide by the business registrations act, until the laws are changed, and that is highly unlikely, so a person may work as a sole proprietor self employed providing they have permission to work from MOM..the LOC gives that temporary permission, becuase the employment is tied to the spouses EP.

I don't see how complicated this is or any reason to stop DP from being self employed and in accordance with business law a person can set up as self employed with a letter of consent to work.

This would be given by the EP holders work controller and not by any other controller unless they know the circumstance, that I am assuming of course becuase of all the cock ups. Until we see in black and white, that a dependant pass holder cannot work in Singapore, they will continue to let them work, becuase no laws are being broken.

And it hardly effects anyone, though setting up a company, well 50.000$ is the rule for entrepass now, not the law so I guess MOM have told Acra to inform certain pass holders of the new rules.

So I think the Letter of Consent to work is the first step, then registration and paying tax.

I would agree with SMS those DP holders that are working without a LOC could be in big trouble.

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Postby andy_woodward » Tue, 06 Apr 2010 8:39 am

Guys thanks for all your input, i agree unless you have something from MOM to say you can work its not worth the risks associated with setting up business against getting thrown out of Singapore or worse.

I have just submitted an LOC and await a response, this is signed by my company and will let you know how it plays out.

Reading lots of other references from other organisations in Singapore there is no reeason why a Dependant applying for an LOC cannot submit one and sign it on behalf of his company. Look here for references.....

http://www.asiabizsetup.com/singapore-d ... ss-qa.aspx

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/21055127/Wo ... -Manpower/

There is no telling how current these docs are...

Will keep you all posted.

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Postby ksl » Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:31 pm

My other thoughts are, that a DP holder should not be restricted from setting up a Pte Ltd Company, as this would be in direct conflict with business law when the person is allowed to work with the LOC, it is not a loop hole as the person is temporary resident, which they have legal rights in the country which allows them to set up business, and they would not have to pay 50,000$ start up fee for the entrepreneur pass in accordance with business law. That 50,000$ I would believe is for people outside of the Country has a deterrent and to control the inflow of applicants.

However rules can change this and appeals can be sent in. and I would expect the decision to allow Pte Ltd would be on a case by case scenario, because it is not business law that a resident should have 50,000$ start up capital and it is very discriminative against people residing here in Singapore....
So to be quite honest I don't ever see the system being so straight forward, for it to be black & white if a DP holder fails to setup a business, they must appeal and give good reason for the appeal.

I would aslo believe that more organisations may have to be drawn into any discussion to have the rule of DP changed, hardly significant numbers applying to work for themselves to suggest changing the rule I would have thought, and also against the spirit of building business.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:55 pm

ksl wrote:My other thoughts are, that a DP holder should not be restricted from setting up a Pte Ltd Company, as this would be in direct conflict with business law when the person is allowed to work with the LOC, it is not a loop hole as the person is temporary resident, which they have legal rights in the country which allows them to set up business, and they would not have to pay 50,000$ start up fee for the entrepreneur pass in accordance with business law. That I would believe is for people outside of the Country has a deterrent and to control the inflow.

However rules can change this and appeals can be sent in. and I would expect the decision to allow Pte Ltd would be on a case by case scenario, because it is not business law that a resident should have 50,000$ start up capital and it is very discriminative against people residing here in Singapore....

I would aslo believe that more organisations may have to be drawn into any discussion to have the rule of DP changed, hardly significant numbers applying to work for themselves to suggest changing the rule I would have thought, and also against the spirit of building business.


ksl, you keep referring to a "business law". What "business law" are you referring to? I've looked for statutes here in Singapore till I'm tired of doing so. I cannot find any business law here that says what you are saying. Please point me to the "Singapore" statutes that you are paraphrasing from so I have something to ease my questions as they pertain to "Singapore" as a sovereign nation. I'm totally at a loss here. Is this an International Law that can be taken to the world court at the Hague? Where can I find that law or laws. :???:

Anyway, I would have almost though just the opposite of your initial paragraph response. I would have thought that a Dependent Pass holder, while temporarily resident here, should not be able to create a Pte Ltd Company as that is a permanent entity that has a life of it's own after it is created. As the DP isn't permanent, then the odds are that that person may have to leave, would, to me, seem like that they should be made to use the same rules for the Entrepass as well, as if the main EP holder loses their EP then the DP loses their residency as well. Then we would have exactly a Entrepass scenario where the former LoC/DP is now a non-resident. It's definitely confusing and you can bet your last dollar that MOM will be doing something about it pretty darn quick as more and more are calling MOM and asking about it. As this happens, they will review and probably confer with ACRA and if last Sept-Nov is any indication, change it literally overnight. :o


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