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Dependent Pass not allowed to incorporate a private limited

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jpatokal
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Postby jpatokal » Mon, 22 Feb 2010 9:43 am

aster wrote:Is there really a point to raising the paid-up capital / issued share capital of a company? It's a serious question from someone who isn't fluent in all these accountancy issues - I just don't see why the company's account balance isn't the most important thing.

Just as a data point: I started my company (as PR) with the grand sum of $1 in capital, and since Singapore only requires "one" of any currency unit, I could theoretically have saved almost a dollar by using one rupiah instead. :P In my line (IT consulting), capital requirements are quite minimal, and the $10k minimum for UOB's corporate accounts was more than enough for day-to-day stuff and hence became my de facto "core capital". These days, I've got employees and need to keep a little more sitting in the bank account, but no client has ever asked about my paid-up capital and I've never seen any reason to increase it.
Vaguely heretical thoughts on travel technology at Gyrovague

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Postby movingtospore » Mon, 22 Feb 2010 1:06 pm

Back to the OP - you can start a limited company on a dependent's pass without going the entrepass route. But you need a PR or citizen to be a director. Or so I was a told at a workshop recently.

Or, depending on what type of business it is you could start out by setting yourself up as a sole proprietor. That is fairly straightforward.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 22 Feb 2010 1:34 pm

movingtospore,

You might want to have a read of the ACRA site before you say too much.....

http://www.acra.gov.sg/Guide+for+Foreigners.htm

[quote]Guide for Foreigners

Before you can start a business in Singapore

* You must be at least 18 years of age (with effect from 1 March 2009)

* You must not be an undischarged bankrupt or else you must obtained the permission from High Court or Official Assignee if you are planning to register a business entity in Singapore.

* If you are going to be actively involved in the running of the business, you will need to apply for an EntrePass from the Ministry of Manpower (MOM).

EntrePass

A foreigner, who is not a Singapore Permanent Resident (PR), but wishes to engage in any form of business in Singapore must apply for an EntrePass from the Ministry of Manpower (MOM).

A foreigner, who does not apply for EntrePass, may instead appoint a locally resident director to register a company in Singapore and continue to reside outside Singapore. [b]“Locally resident”

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Postby movingtospore » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:43 am

Hmm OK. I got this info via the CRCE...will call MOE directly as different people seem to have different info on this.

Perhaps the distinction is on whether or not its an LLC?

Anyhoo what was recommended to me is to start out as a sole proprietor, apply to become a PR and then try to set up an LLC...

Thxs sms.

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Postby movingtospore » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:19 pm

I called MOM, and what I was told (despite what is on their web site) is that you can apply for a sole proprietorship on a dependent's pass without an entrepass. First you need to get a Singpass, then submit the application online.

As far as limited companies go, nobody seems to have a clear answer because of the rule changes last year. Guy at MOM couldn't answer my question re LLP etc...I am not personally going that route until we get PR but if I were you OP I'd go talk to a local accountant/lawyer specializing in such thing, they might be able to help work it through the system.

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Postby ksl » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:46 pm

movingtospore wrote:I called MOM, and what I was told (despite what is on their web site) is that you can apply for a sole proprietorship on a dependent's pass without an entrepass. First you need to get a Singpass, then submit the application online.

As far as limited companies go, nobody seems to have a clear answer because of the rule changes last year. Guy at MOM couldn't answer my question re LLP etc...I am not personally going that route until we get PR but if I were you OP I'd go talk to a local accountant/lawyer specializing in such thing, they might be able to help work it through the system.


Your spouse can set the Limited Company up and you can be employed by the Company, if you cannot set it up yourself, but i see no reason at all, why you cannot just set up a Limited Company, your other half should have the singpass already. Your business will be tied to your spouses EP while on DP, unless your spouse applies for your own EP. If you remain a sole proprietor on DP, it will be tied to your spouse, so when the EP runs out, you will have to stop the business or change the status of your connection to the business to Ltd and apply for EP in accordance with the rules.

You do not have to pay the 50k because you are allowed to work for yourself while on DP hence no restriction by MOM for setting up a LtdC other than the director must be PR or EP holder, and definitely no restriction from ACRA, becuase only MOM have set the 50k capital, for start up on entrepas with Spring and other government orgs to control the quality of applicants that are applying, as many fail in the first 3 years due to cash flow and bad management. DP's are exempt on the grounds they are spouses of EP holders and potential PR applicants.

That is to say they can catch two birds with one stone, if the business is successful due to family ties, if it fails and the EP holder hasn't applied for PR, than it doesn't matter.

Though since September the government has made the decision to cut back on the foreigners already here.

The government will implement production increase through technology rather than foreign workers, so the workers levies will be increased over the next 3 years to put a squeeze on these businesses that have been exploiting labour for profit, rather than investment and company growth.
Last edited by ksl on Tue, 23 Feb 2010 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 1:03 pm

movingtospore wrote:I called MOM, and what I was told (despite what is on their web site) is that you can apply for a sole proprietorship on a dependent's pass without an entrepass. First you need to get a Singpass, then submit the application online.

As far as limited companies go, nobody seems to have a clear answer because of the rule changes last year. Guy at MOM couldn't answer my question re LLP etc...I am not personally going that route until we get PR but if I were you OP I'd go talk to a local accountant/lawyer specializing in such thing, they might be able to help work it through the system.


If that be the case, then the EntrePass is a waste of time. The website says "any form of business" and in their subsequent link shows a sole proprietorship as being one of their several "forms of business". If they can't answer the question re: LLP, then I would be suspect of the answer you got regarding SPs. It wouldn't make sense to allow SPs without an EntrePass but require it for Pte Ltds. I think you might have gotten a peon at MOM.

Do let us know how it goes. All we have to go on apparently is anecdotal evidence as the websites contradict themselves and then MOM says something different yet again. :roll:

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Postby movingtospore » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 1:59 pm

Well SMS you should be working at MOM. You will like this, the peon called me back to tell me that he was wrong and no, I can't apply to be a sole proprietor. Nor can I apply for a limited partnership. I can however go the entrepass route. We'll see about that.

I'm tempted to submit the application through acra anyways just to see what happens.

Score one for protectionism in Singapore...too bad for them as I have some projects lined up and would have subcontracted some things to locals.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 23 Feb 2010 2:41 pm

movingtospore,

I'm sorry I was right! :-|

As far as filing is concerned, why not. Unless, you have to also remit funds. If that's the case, you would just be throwing money away.

I've found that normally if you have an unusual question or something outside of the norm and you call MOM or IRAS you can get 2 and sometimes 3 different answers. Their knowledge, outside of the run-of-the-mill stuff, is pathetic at best and non-existent at worse.

Yeah, the protectionism is kinda like the protectionism in the US. Only it's even worse there! :oops:


ksl,

Still Image I see....... :P

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Postby aster » Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:11 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You personal tax bill will come via snail mail. Your corporate tax will be on MyTaxPortal as well as sent to you via hardcopy as well.


Will there be any info on MyTaxPortal that my personal tax bill has at least been sent out? I'm just hoping that it doesn't arrive when I'm away for a few weeks as apparently you only get 30 days to pay up. :)

What's up with corporate tax, assuming that everything was filed by Nov 31 last year, when can I expect an "invitation" to pay the company tax (still nothing to this date)? And with our accounts/calculations done in Euros, will I also have to pay in this currency or will IRAS do a calculation and send the bill in SGD?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 24 Feb 2010 1:41 pm

Yes, your notice of assessments will be shown under correspondence & letters in mytaxportal so no worries.

Generally you will get your tax bill somewhere around 4 to 6 months after filing. It sounds like you are on a tax years that is not a calendar year so I don't know just how long the wait really is. I'm pretty sure your bill will be in SGD, as that way 'they' don't get bit by any inadvertent FX fluctuations.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 24 Feb 2010 6:39 pm

Quote SE:

I was contacted by MOM today regarding running a business on a dependents pass.

The person on a dependents pass, as noted earlier, can register a business (sole proprietorship) or form a private limited as the sole director.

The person must then contact MOM for a letter of consent, and once the letter of consent is received the person is free to run the business.

As with the Entrepass, businesses not of an entrepreneurial nature (e.g. coffee shops/hawker centres/food courts, foot reflexology/massage parlours, karaoke lounges, money changing/remitting, newspaper vending, geomancy and tuition services etc) will not be considered for a letter of consent.

A person's DP will still expire at the same time the supporting EP expires. A person who is making sufficient income and wishes to become independent of the supporting EP should consider filing for their own EP.

ftopic60398.html

It's always been like this hasn't it?

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Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:40 pm

ksl wrote:Quote SE:

I was contacted by MOM today regarding running a business on a dependents pass.

The person on a dependents pass, as noted earlier, can register a business (sole proprietorship) or form a private limited as the sole director.

The person must then contact MOM for a letter of consent, and once the letter of consent is received the person is free to run the business.

As with the Entrepass, businesses not of an entrepreneurial nature (e.g. coffee shops/hawker centres/food courts, foot reflexology/massage parlours, karaoke lounges, money changing/remitting, newspaper vending, geomancy and tuition services etc) will not be considered for a letter of consent.

A person's DP will still expire at the same time the supporting EP expires. A person who is making sufficient income and wishes to become independent of the supporting EP should consider filing for their own EP.

ftopic60398.html

It's always been like this hasn't it?


It WAS like that. Apparently ACRA and MOM no longer wish to allow DP's to start a business without an Entrepass app. The language has changed on the ACRA website (no mention of DP - although the language is confusing) and the OP has been turned down.

Will need to obtain further clarification.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:55 pm

movingtospore wrote:Well SMS you should be working at MOM. You will like this, the peon called me back to tell me that he was wrong and no, I can't apply to be a sole proprietor. Nor can I apply for a limited partnership. I can however go the entrepass route.


ksl, you see, even all at MOM don't know the new ruling down pat yet. They, like you, go on like a broken record. This one apparently did so checking with a supervisor and actually called the OP back to let them know they couldn't.

I gotta give it to you. You are persistent!

Still Image !!!! :P

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Postby ksl » Thu, 25 Feb 2010 2:14 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
movingtospore wrote:Well SMS you should be working at MOM. You will like this, the peon called me back to tell me that he was wrong and no, I can't apply to be a sole proprietor. Nor can I apply for a limited partnership. I can however go the entrepass route.


ksl, you see, even all at MOM don't know the new ruling down pat yet. They, like you, go on like a broken record. This one apparently did so checking with a supervisor and actually called the OP back to let them know they couldn't.

I gotta give it to you. You are persistent!

Still Image !!!! :P
You are persistent! No I'm not, things change, just wrong this time, and i see you are letting me know :wink: :P

Though I have just checked ACRA and found this from January 2010, saying Dependant Pass Holder after Entrepass Holder :???: Ease of Doing Business in Singapore pdf file.

http://www.acra.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/F39 ... siness.pdf


Requirements
��Owner must be at least 21 years of age
��Singapore Citizen/PR/EntrePassHolder/Dependant Pass Holder
��Company/LLP can also register a business name
��Foreigner must partner with any of the above or appoint a local manager
��Registration fee of $65
��Registration is valid for 1 year��Annual Renewal -$20

Eligibility for SingPass:

Singapore Citizen and Permanent Resident
Employment Pass and Personalised Employment Pass holders
EntrePass holders
S-Pass holders
Dependant Pass holders (of EP, PEP, EntrePass and S-Pass holders)
Selected Work Permit Holders.

I wouldn't listen to anyone, until getting the Singpass and trying the online registration, that broken record keeps playing SMS doesn't it :wink: rub rub rub. quote SMS: I'm sorry if i'm right ----- I hope you are too otherwise you will be running out of eggs. :)
Last edited by ksl on Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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