NS questions

[raden888]

I find it rather disturbing that there are a lot of posts regarding the whole NS issue. Most people are trying to find ways of getting out of it.(finding a loop hole)Seriously, why do these folks take SPR in the first place if they do not want their sons to do NS? PR - Permanent Resident.i.e you are committed to the future of Singapore ,you are not a mercenary.

The most common complaint "Its a waste of time" : take the two years of NS as a graduate training program. After these two years your son will have learned valuable transferable skills, which at times even Universities do not provide. A lot of graduates these have paper qualifications but lack attitude.These attitudes could be nurtured through programs like NS if they are administered properly. Okay, I understand that you will be a reservists till 40 or 50 depending on rank but still that should be a non issue.

Most people are attracted to Singapore because its safe and economically vibrant.Imagine if everyone dodges NS and the system collapses? How safe will Singapore be?

I am not a Singaporean and yet a bit peeved with this situation.

[Mad Scientist]

I find it rather disturbing that there are a lot of posts regarding the whole NS issue. Most people are trying to find ways of getting out of it.(finding a loop hole)Seriously, why do these folks take SPR in the first place if they do not want their sons to do NS? PR - Permanent Resident.i.e you are committed to the future of Singapore ,you are not a mercenary.

The most common complaint "Its a waste of time" : take the two years of NS as a graduate training program. After these two years your son will have learned valuable transferable skills, which at times even Universities do not provide. A lot of graduates these have paper qualifications but lack attitude.These attitudes could be nurtured through programs like NS if they are administered properly. Okay, I understand that you will be a reservists till 40 or 50 depending on rank but still that should be a non issue.

Most people are attracted to Singapore because its safe and economically vibrant.Imagine if everyone dodges NS and the system collapses? How safe will Singapore be?

I am not a Singaporean and yet a bit peeved with this situation.

You are right about this issue. But to me, it is all about personal choice. If the parents chose to avoid NS and knows the consequences then go for it. If they chose to do NS and knows what will benefit them then is OK. I am neither for or against it. I myself serve the NS . Yes, it will discipline you in life blah blah blah ......
It is how you take NS issue and place it in proper perspective based on your understanding. No one can say you are right or wrong.
However having said that , this charter was enacted in 1967. It is moulded base on Israel Army Conscription there.Hell, we were train by them from 67 till 70.The late Defense Minister Goh Keng Swee and Harry realised this after the 1965" Confrontation regarding People Army.
Before, you can do your tertiary then serve the NS which suit many boys. But then some smart "Alec" which were from Presidential Scholars decided not to return from overseas after their tertiary and pay off their bond.
The SG Gahmen amend the law due to this.
As time goes by the law was amended several times . It gets tougher on NS defaulters as time goes by.
Who to blame ? No one . ....Loyalty is in your heart. How you doctronised the public perception on NS is a sticky issue. This is the problem..
You can comment based on what you read and see. Live your life here if this is possible like I did for a wee bit then you realised how the public view this issue.
For myself, if you can read all my thread, I will pay it forward so to speak, on this issue whether readers wants to opt in or out for NS for their children.I will try to help either way and provide them with informations to make that choice. After all it is their choice to make and only them can make that choice.
(':)')

[utopia]

Personally, I'm of the view that if you are a Singaporean, you should embrace NS as a way of life. It's a melting pot of life experiences, and there are positives and negatives in it, and should be approached with the right attitude and mindset in order to make the best out of it.

The ongoing 'reservist' on the other hand, I have personally found to be life-disrupting, for example career moves/planning among other things.

But overall, it's my view that if you are an able-bodied SG male, 'escaping' NS is the mindset of finding an 'easy way out', while greedily enjoying the other many positive aspects of being a Singaporean. Mind you, not that there is any wrong in being creative/underhanded enough in being able to find 'an easy way out' in any scenario, including this one.

Personally, what I'm doing, perhaps similar to Mad Scientist, is potenially giving my children a choice regarding SG citizenship and NS as a package-deal come their 'age of reasoning'.
Or that's the plan, anyway.

[Mad Scientist]

The ongoing 'reservist' on the other hand, I have personally found to be life-disrupting, for example career moves/planning among other things.

But overall, it's my view that if you are an able-bodied SG male, 'escaping' NS is the mindset of finding an 'easy way out', while greedily enjoying the other many positive aspects of being a Singaporean. Mind you, not that there is any wrong in being creative/underhanded enough in being able to find 'an easy way out' in any scenario, including this one.

Mate !!

To go for reservist call up is disruptive. For Mindef is all about body counts on reservist call up. You can rarely get deferment if you are rank and file . This include PC and OC. Only 2NTM personnel are able to squeeze out yourself if you understand how the system works.
I do not think being creative /underhanded is the word. I believe if the reservist understand the system many would be creative and defer themselves. Unfortunately the protocol to defer is watertight .Only a handful can get away with deferment.
Question about NS started before the internet age. Only thing it is more transparent due to the internet.
I have Korean, Israelis and Dutch friends they say the same thing about draft service. So this phenomenon does not only apply to us SGers but to others too

[Deetz]

I'm just a dirty foreigner not a PR but it's definitely very unfair that it is ONLY men that are responsible to devote 2 years. I don't see why women could not serve in the Army, Air Force or Navy. That or allow both men and women to choose to serve their country in some other way for two years.

Maybe I'm a chauvinistic pig but it's still amusing how women want everything equal but men still get screwed in many aspects, especially when a marriage fails. Not sure how it is in Singapore but it's great how the man will have to give a % of his income to support his ex wife and or any new lazy boyfriends.

[nakatago]

Mebbe if National Service wasn't confined to serving involving military/firearms/fighting/weapons, people wouldn't be so adverse to doing it. Hey, it's called National Service, not National Military Service, not National Police/Security Service.

And that way, women may also be 'encouraged' to serve as well. Gender equality cuts both ways.

Hehehehehe...






But alas, this is not an ideal world.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Maybe the local guys should all have small objects shoved into various orifices until they get pregnant like they do to the girls here, and then have to deliver a 4 or 5 kg bundle of screaming terror and then raising it for the next 18 years (most here don't help too much in that regard at they consider that "woman" work.) instead of carrying around a rifle which is a much larger substitute for their gun. Talk about a disruption!

I've always said both should do some form of national service and the women could be charged with getting married and having two kids. It takes 18 years to raise a kid and two years to have two of 'em. Sounds like a good trade off. Then all the whiney males would have to shut up. Asia used to be a patriarchal society. Now it's nothing but a society of whiney mommas boys who blame everything on the girls. Historically men have always protected their countries and families. Now? Sad.

[nakatago]

raising it for the next 18 years...It takes 18 years to raise a kid

Maybe in your household. For some here (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), it'll take as long as they move out, if at all. Either way, it's definitely more than 18 years.

(yeah, that was a loaded statement)

and having two kids.

They could use the numbers.

On a probably related note, I just read an article in Lord Voldemort Times about make-believe boyfriends. How...quaint.

[Mad Scientist]

Come to think of it you guys are all correct. Maybe I am just being grumpy. Hell when we serve the army, we were practically eating "dog shit food".The Isrealis instructors treat us like animal. Maybe because we see our parents struggling just to put something on the table, make us thankful that at least there is food and we did not complain.
Suck it in and endure so to speak.
Now they have catered food and being chauffered from the camp to the training ground by commercial bus. They even have officer in charge of ill treatment. Hell, when Harry son was in OCT he did not like to do area cleaning in the morning and the spot that he has to do shed alot of leaves , that they have to chopped off the tree. Is true !!
Monkey see and monkey do !! If the head does it , why not !!
I think due to the world has change and revolve so much , we have more luxury and more infos and we became "clever"blah blah blah
Hence we whine and we scream and we try our very best to outwit the system . Not only the NS issue but any other issues
We are human , what can we say !!

[sundaymorningstaple]

MS, I daresay, I, like you, have been there and back as I'm sure you are already aware of. We both come from a different era. Today, sadly, with the advent of the "metrosexual", males have become progressively castrated and now most of the women have more cojones that the guys do. Pretty soon the role reversal will be complete and what the women have been saying for centuries will ultimately come true. They will run the world if the guys are only capable of trying to get out of their duties and continue to whine about everything that doesn't go their way.

[Mad Scientist]

SMS

I saw this somewhere
but it goes like this

WHEN GOD CREATED MAN , THERE WAS PEACE ALL OVER THE WORLD

WHEN HE CREATED WOMAN, CHAOS NEVER ENDS

AND you know what GOD say after that

!!!!

[nakatago]

speaking of metrosexuals, have you seen dudes with big biceps but are adverse to manual labor? They won't lift stuff unless it's a dumbbell or barbell with a padded handle! these are probably the some people who shriek like little girls when chancing upon dogs walking on the street! i've seen actual little girls who don't when they meet dogs!

[Mad Scientist]

MS, I daresay, I, like you, have been there and back as I'm sure you are already aware of. We both come from a different era. Today, sadly, with the advent of the "metrosexual", males have become progressively castrated and now most of the women have more cojones that the guys do. Pretty soon the role reversal will be complete and what the women have been saying for centuries will ultimately come true. They will run the world if the guys are only capable of trying to get out of their duties and continue to whine about everything that doesn't go their way.

SMS

On this subject I have to concur with you. We must learn to be thankful with what we have now rather than screaming at the top of your lungs if things does not go your way. Having served the green fatigue 12 years of my life and being in situations or in peacekeeing mission overseas, boy , sometime I just said to myself that I am gald to be alive and really appreciate what has been bestowed on me.

[raden888]

Interesting to note the different opinions regarding this issue.

Hey MS, How did the Singaporean Muslims felt, being trained by Israelis? Were they pissed off?

Across the causeway, they too have implemented NS.However, the Malaysian NS I believe is not efficient yet.Its only for 3 months and involves both genders.They even use real bullets in training which has been controversial due to the friendly fire issue!Young lives lost for no reason.

[Mad Scientist]

Interesting to note the different opinions regarding this issue.

Hey MS, How did the Singaporean Muslims felt, being trained by Israelis? Were they pissed off?

Across the causeway, they too have implemented NS.However, the Malaysian NS I believe is not efficient yet.Its only for 3 months and involves both genders.They even use real bullets in training which has been controversial due to the friendly fire issue!Young lives lost for no reason.

I guess you are M'sian maybe I am wrong. There are many things that I cannot write in this forum due to my past life.
Nationalism take first priority in war or peace time. When you see your buddy get shot at , all those racial prejudice or discontent, will be thrown out of the windows.Saving your buddy is first on your list.
I rather NOT answer your question as it will lead to nowhere.