Singapore Expats Forum

Rejection of EP & Appeal

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
jacqwwl
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon, 17 Aug 2009

Rejection of EP & Appeal

Postby jacqwwl » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 7:36 pm

Hi everyone,

I have been offered a position at a well-established non-governmental organisation for special needs as a psychologist. I found out last week that my Employment Pass (Q1)/ S Pass has been rejected after 5 weeks. I came to Singapore immediately (I'm a Malaysian) to consult with an officer at MoM.

I was told that I do not meet the 'stringent academic requirements of a psychologist' (the officer kept repeating that). I have a Postgraduate Diploma in Psychology and a BSc in Psychology, both from Australian Universities. A Postgraduate Diploma in Psychology and an Honours degree are considered to be quite equivalent (same classes and assignments, individual submission of theses, etc) in Australia and the grades of both courses are considered to be on par when applying for Master's and Doctoral degrees.

I asked the officer if what they needed (minimum requirement) was a Master's degree, and he said no, which should mean that they want an Honours degree. I am afraid that the Postgraduate Diploma in Psychology program is not as well-known here as it is in Australia (According to the Australian Psychological Board, both Honours and Postgraduat Diploma graduates are able to apply for provisional registration in Australia).

On top of that, Singapore has yet to implement an official statutory regulation over the practice of psychology here, and it is stated in the Singapore Psychological Society Website that it is not a mandatory legal requirement to be licensed or registered with any government agencies or private bodies. If that is the case, I am confused since the officer mentioned that my application went through Ministry of Health and was stopped by the respective body/society of my field. What 'requirements' would they be referring to if there are no official/legal bodies/societies?

Also, when I checked the first application, the total period of relevant working experience has been filled incorrectly (0 years and 0 months!).

I have since written an appeal letter stating that my Postgraduate Diploma in Psychology is equivalent to an Honours (and attached a supporting document that my university provided), and that I made a mistake in filling out the total period of relevant working experience, providing also a detailed account of each job and how it is relevant.

One more thing to note, the MoM Officer also said that if I had applied for any other positions, I would not have had problems with my EP application. Based on this, my employer is planning to change the title of my position in the appeal.

Did I miss anything in my appeal? I'm thinking of using the services of those visa agencies. Does anyone know if they are of much help? Please advise.

jacqwwl
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon, 17 Aug 2009

Postby jacqwwl » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 7:51 pm

The other thing I forgot to mention was that in the middle of the 5 weeks of my application, I was asked by the MoM officer to produce practicum experience and certificates. The HR suggested that it may be because I stated 0 period of relevant experience and MoM was trying to determine working experience through practicum. Now I'm thinking that perhaps if it is because it is in their 'stringent academic requirements'?

In any case, I wrote a letter stating that Honours/Postgraduate Diploma/any 4th year psychology programs offers no practicum training, but instead is a year of research training (and yet Australia deems the program adequate enough to register with the Australian Psychological Society). Especially if student visa does not allow one to 'work' in Singapore, even for clinical training.

As for my certificates, I explained that I did not have my Postgraduate Diploma in Psychology certificate because I have yet to attend my graduation which is in May (I graduated from Bachelors in Australia, worked in Malaysia for two years after that, then came to Singapore to study my Postgraduate Diploma and just completed last September). However, I included a Letter of Completion from the university that should suffice as prove of degree completion. Afterall, they can always call to check if I do in fact have that degree.

Does this make it any more confusing? :???:

User avatar
jpatokal
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue, 09 Dec 2003
Location: Terra Australis Incognita

Postby jpatokal » Tue, 02 Feb 2010 11:00 am

TL;DR :???:

...slightly more seriously, what you've listed sounds like decent grounds for an appeal. I wouldn't trust an outside agency, they'll just f*ck up something else on your application.
Vaguely heretical thoughts on travel technology at Gyrovague

jacqwwl
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon, 17 Aug 2009

Postby jacqwwl » Tue, 02 Feb 2010 1:32 pm

Thank you so much for your reply.

I intend to go to MoM again with the appeal form myself after it's been signed by my employer to ask if I have missed anything. Is that a good idea or should I let the HR girl mail it in? I doubt the MoM officer would tell me much though, since they tend to be so vague..

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35175
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 02 Feb 2010 2:53 pm

When you go for an appeal, you should request an interview with an officer (not the front line clerks). It may take a little longer but you will have an interview in a small office and there you may present your data to someone who actually may have a clue as to what they are looking at and who may well understand you as well. The extra time it will take is often worth the effort (some don't even need to actually submit the appeal if the problem is obvious.

jacqwwl
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon, 17 Aug 2009

Postby jacqwwl » Tue, 02 Feb 2010 3:07 pm

When I was at MoM to meet with the officer to ask him what was wrong with the first application, I was given a number in line to wait on Level 2. Are you talking about the two small consultation rooms beside the elevator? That was what I went into to meet with the officer who pulled up my file from my FIN number and (vaguely) told me that I do not meet the academic requirements.

When I explained that I have an equivalent of an Honours, he was rather tight-lipped and just said, 'Send that information in with the appeal'. Maybe I got a not-so-friendly one :( The other interview room seemed to take at least twice as long with the applicants, haha.

Hopefully the change of title position might be of some help since there are so many red tapes around the present one. I also have an approved EPEC, does that help much?

jacqwwl
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon, 17 Aug 2009

Postby jacqwwl » Mon, 08 Feb 2010 2:52 pm

Hello all,

I just spoke to the HR and they have informed me that they cannot change the position/title in an appeal form. If they want to do it, they will have to resubmit a whole new form. Is this true?

Also, they will only be filling in their justification in the form itself (a small box is provided to be filled in), and not in a full letter.

I think this only lowers my chances. I will be collecting the appeal tomorrow and will head straight to MoM. Any advice?

wcs
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue, 26 May 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby wcs » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 4:06 am

There is sometimes confusion over a graduate diploma and a postgraduate diploma. As you rightly stated the postgraduate diploma is considered like an honours degree as it requires a major in the subject area to be eligible to enrol in the course and builds further on this knowledge. A letter from your university as you have seems like it would clarify this.

If you studied in Singapore on a student pass, the time in which you can work to do practicum or an internship is from when your formal classes end, until the end of the date on your student pass. The proviso is so long as you school has no objections. This was explained to us at NTU. Of course you might need to explain it to a prospective employer as cases outside the norm can easily cause confusion and subsequent rejection here.

The suggestion I would make is to ask your lecturers here if they know any practicing psychologists here or an officer bearer of the pyschological society. If the lecturer could explain your case to a friend in that position, you might be able to get an introduction and a letter of support from someone working here in that field. It is a long shot, but lecturers usually want to see their students do well, and if the friend is an alumnus of the course they may too.

Industry referees are always useful to have.

My final long shot of a suggestion is to check if there is any reciprocal recognition between the australian society and the singaporean one. If so, you could register as a practitioner with the australian society and use that as further evidence of your fitness to practice.

Good Luck with it!

ahwee1987
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu, 08 Jul 2010
Location: bedok north road

Rejection of EP and Appeal

Postby ahwee1987 » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:07 pm

Hi everyone,

Recently i was offered a job from Honeywell Singapore as a project engineer as they are hiring me as their contract staff for 6 months. In honeywell policy, for a contract staff, u need to go through an agency to apply for the Employment Pass for you.

So yesterday i just received call from the agency for my Employment pass status, MOM rejected my application and stated that i am lack of experience since i am a fresh graduate. They are stating that instead of hiring you fresh graduate from malaysia, i can hire a fresh graduate from singapore.

Right after that , I call directly to honeywell whether they can appeal for me. But the HR seem like don't 1 to come out with an appeal letter for the agency to appeal for me. I wonder why the company HR don't wan to come out with and appeal letter for me since they are hiring me up.?

During my internship i have been working in honeywell Malaysia for 4 months and i have recommendation letter from honeywell Malaysia too. Do you think this letter will at least help me? thanks

Anyone please advice? I am really worried i cant get the EP ..Can i appoint for another agency to apply for me if the appeal fail? thanks

JayCee
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 981
Joined: Mon, 04 Aug 2008
Location: Not Singapore

Postby JayCee » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:52 pm

"MOM rejected my application and stated that i am lack of experience since i am a fresh graduate. They are stating that instead of hiring you fresh graduate from malaysia, i can hire a fresh graduate from singapore. "

This says it all doesn't it? There are lots of Singaporean graduates, so why hire a foreign one?

If honeywell Malaysia like you so much why don't they employ you?

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9320
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Re: Rejection of EP and Appeal

Postby x9200 » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 1:09 pm

ahwee1987 wrote:I wonder why the company HR don't wan to come out with and appeal letter for me since they are hiring me up.?

You were offered and accepted less than an SC or PR would accept?

observer
Regular
Regular
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed, 13 Jan 2010

Postby observer » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 1:27 pm

I don't think another agency will make a difference. The rejection is clear and unless you have a strong argument in favor of hiring you over a local, this case is closed. You said it yourself, why hire a fresh graduate from another country when there are plenty locally?
It's common sense - if you try to come in before I go out, I can't go out. And you can't come in! Lose-lose!

ahwee1987
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu, 08 Jul 2010
Location: bedok north road

Re: Rejection of EP and Appeal

Postby ahwee1987 » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 1:30 pm

x9200 wrote:
ahwee1987 wrote:I wonder why the company HR don't wan to come out with and appeal letter for me since they are hiring me up.?

You were offered and accepted less than an SC or PR would accept?


Hi bro,

Yes. The company have agreed to help me to apply and EP through the agency at the first place. Anyway to help in the Appeal?can i appoint other agency to apply the EP for me again?

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35175
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 1:36 pm

See my reply in your other thread.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: Rejection of EP and Appeal

Postby JR8 » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 5:02 pm

ahwee1987 wrote:
x9200 wrote:
ahwee1987 wrote:I wonder why the company HR don't wan to come out with and appeal letter for me since they are hiring me up.?

You were offered and accepted less than an SC or PR would accept?


Hi bro,

Yes. The company have agreed to help me to apply and EP through the agency at the first place. Anyway to help in the Appeal?can i appoint other agency to apply the EP for me again?


<sharp intake of breath]

First time I've seen a newbie call SMS 'bro'...

Stands back pondering the slow burning fuse that has been lit 8-)



Darn using <> on this forum does weird stuff....
Last edited by JR8 on Fri, 09 Jul 2010 3:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest