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Enquires About NS

Postby Lunchboxes » Sat, 30 Jan 2010 1:01 pm

Hey all,I am kinda in need of some advices now please.I am a dual-citizenship now,Went down personally to ICA and they told me that 'on their side i can renounce my singaporean citizenship' but still had to confirm with Mindef.I spoke to Mindef twice & they CONFIRMED with me that they do not handle cases such as mine(renunciation of Singaporean Citizenship)until dual-citizenship male holders actually enters NS so this would be ICA's call.However i spoke to ICA customer service officer 1-2weeks back and She told me that ICA & MINDEF works hand-in-hand for cases like this.So the question is who's being reliable?
Some basic introduction of myself to make this clearer,I will be graduation out of Polytechnic at the age of 21 before entering NS thus under the singaporean constitution(from my understanding) i am eligible to Renounce my Singaporean Citizenship.And i've been finding hard to get a confirmation on whether there is a need to serve NS first before i am eligible.Knowing that i have enjoyed socio-economic benefits such as a singaporean passport/Pink NIRC Card/education.However personnels of both departments ICA/MINDEF did not mention of any of these.
Thanks in advance.Lunchboxes=)

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 30 Jan 2010 5:47 pm

LunchBoxes

Please read the forum under General Discussion subforum Strictly Speaking.

There are a few thread on the issues of NS. It has been compiled quite accurately by members having this same problems similar or almost similar to you.

Now , If I understand you correctly

1. You are studying in Poly in Singapore under 21 but you have Dual Citizenship.
2. You have the Pinky IC and The Pinky Passport.

Answer : You will go and do the NS then you can renounce your SG citzenship. You are liable as you have the above two. Bingo !!! You are dead my friend . No way out !
Does not matter if you have dual or not as Singapore Citizenship overwrites your second citizenship and you are considered a minor as you are under 21 and you cannot renounce until you are 21 and serve the NS. DO THE NS then RENOUNCE is the procedure
Only good thing is if you serve the NS and renounce, you can still get EP here as a recognition to your contribution to Singapore security.
Mindef work on your NS portion and ICA work on renunciation portion
Defy this you are considered NS Defaulters.
Sorry mate !! No easy way out as this time and trial tested by many
MS

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 30 Jan 2010 7:36 pm

My son will be facing the same thing. Actually he will be over 21 before he finished his tertiary education but he's still got to do NS before he can renounce. But we've known that for many years. It's one of the reasons I've always given input here. My son was born here and went through local schools all the way. However, I did all the homework early and we both made the decision years ago and always update our conversation annually on his birthdays. He's still happy with his decision even thought he'll be 21 in August. As he as spent he whole life here with only occasional visits to the US he's more at home here but he'll probably opt out for US when the time comes. The fact that, by going this way, he can come back and it doesn't burn any bridges for him. Additionally, it even gives him the option to create and maintain some lasting networks that could be very valuable in the future on this much smaller ball of dirt we all are living on. :wink:

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Postby Lunchboxes » Sun, 31 Jan 2010 12:46 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:LunchBoxes

Please read the forum under General Discussion subforum Strictly Speaking.

There are a few thread on the issues of NS. It has been compiled quite accurately by members having this same problems similar or almost similar to you.

Now , If I understand you correctly

1. You are studying in Poly in Singapore under 21 but you have Dual Citizenship.
2. You have the Pinky IC and The Pinky Passport.

Answer : You will go and do the NS then you can renounce your SG citzenship. You are liable as you have the above two. Bingo !!! You are dead my friend . No way out !
Does not matter if you have dual or not as Singapore Citizenship overwrites your second citizenship and you are considered a minor as you are under 21 and you cannot renounce until you are 21 and serve the NS. DO THE NS then RENOUNCE is the procedure
Only good thing is if you serve the NS and renounce, you can still get EP here as a recognition to your contribution to Singapore security.
Mindef work on your NS portion and ICA work on renunciation portion
Defy this you are considered NS Defaulters.
Sorry mate !! No easy way out as this time and trial tested by many
MS


thanks for the reply mate,i made such a noob mistake sorry about that, i understand where ur coming from BUT i need you to understand that i will be done with my Poly Education after 21 (my birthday being in january).the poly term finishes in either late january or early febuary.So before i can get enlisted i am 21 and i have the ability to renounce.From what i understand if such is true mindef doesnt get involved in cases like mine as i have yet to be enlisted to NS(such is what they confirmed with me) and on the ICA side they told me that it is okay for me to renounce before i enter NS as long as i am 21.
cheers
P.S:i did explain my situation to the mindef personnel i was speaking with(renouncing singaporean citizenship before hitting NS) he told me i wont be classified as a NS defaulter

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 31 Jan 2010 1:16 pm

Good luck.

Come back and let us know how it goes after you renounce and try to leave the country without having served NS. Who knows, maybe they figure they're better off letting quitters leave as they'll not be too much use in defending the country anyway. One can hope anyway.

They 'might' let you go, but you might never be able to work here in the future.

I hope you got it in writing, your information from Mindef, that is. Otherwise, you have got nothing.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sun, 31 Jan 2010 2:06 pm

LB

The only way I can figure this out is you are First Gen PR that Mindef and ICA OR you have went to the initial NS medical check up and found that you have some medical problems . Only then they can let you off the hook.
If you are not which is highly plausible you are one then there is no possibilities they will let you go.
SMS has more exposure on this as he has seen many in this forum who asked the same question b4.
I follow the SG Law to the T when we had our sons renounce and we nearly got caught in the net. Moreover I was in the army before and knew how things was run. Maybe I am getting old and lost touch with the system
If you get them in writing which I doubt so then you stand a better chance or else is jail house rock OR RUN AND NEVER TURN BACK !!

MS

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Postby Lunchboxes » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:31 pm

I see but i dont seem to fit into any of this criteria but i do know that my deferment last until i am over 21(when poly ends) which makes me of a recognised age to actually make a decision for myself(renouncing of singaporean citizenship) when i decide i to do so,iwont be singaporean anymore but a citizen of another country,which makes me not eligble for NS.Let me know if i am missing anything.Good idea SMS i think i will just do that

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:48 pm

Lunchboxes wrote:I see but i dont seem to fit into any of this criteria but i do know that my deferment last until i am over 21(when poly ends) which makes me of a recognised age to actually make a decision for myself(renouncing of singaporean citizenship) when i decide i to do so,iwont be singaporean anymore but a citizen of another country,which makes me not eligble for NS.Let me know if i am missing anything.Good idea SMS i think i will just do that


Is your Lunchbox empty? Did you read my first post in this thread? My son is in exactly the same category as you are. He's currently in a tertiary programme here and, as such has a schooling deferment from NS for 5 years. He will have to do his NS prior to renouncing his Singapore Citizenship. Otherwise, he will be classified as a deserter and treated as such should he either try to remain here or return here in the future.

While ICA and Mindef are separate, ICA will not grant renunciation until it has checked with Mindef. So while ICA said you can renounce, they won't grant it until Mindef has extracted their ounce of flesh. Of that you can count on.

Good luck.

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Postby Lunchboxes » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 3:03 pm

woah bro no need to get cranky over a post,i could return those words to you my friend,I believe i did mentioned that the MINDEF told me they do not intervene until the subject of concern actually is enlisted into the army and that ICA is completely in control in such a case,nevertheless i called today again just to be sure,he told me again that his department which usually handles this kind of stuff only handles them when they enter ns and so i proceeded to ask then,is there any other department else in mindef that actually handles cases when the subject of concern isnt in NS,He told me that he had no clue and that i should check with CMPB.Well i am waitin for a call from CMPB now we'll see how it goes
cheers

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 4:12 pm

Fair enough, I made the mistake of using Mindef and the CMPB interchangeably. I have been referring to CMPB all along and assumed that you were as well. For many years Mindef was both. Whenever you speak to CMPB make sure you get it all in writing. And no, I wasn't being cranky, you weren't reading.

Again, Good luck and make sure you get it all in writing. CMPB probably won't give it to you though as you could call them three times, speak to 3 different people and get three different answers. At least you have a fighting chance if you something in writing.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 02 Feb 2010 3:05 am

LunchBoxes

Are you SG by birth or another country by birth and gain your SG citizenship by descent.If it is the former I will be very surprised you can skip the NS
I would suggest you go down to CMPB to see them personally. Bring all your docs but do not show them first.You got nothing to lose the way I see.
Get all the answers that you wanted. Their name tag is there to see.
If you can get them to write in black and white will be best.
If for some reason this is done, please PM me with the attached letter from CMPB to me. It would definitely open up my eyes so that we can advise others.

MS

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Postby Lunchboxes » Mon, 08 Feb 2010 7:37 pm

i'd like to apologise for the late reply,i was having one hell of a packed week.Yeah Well basically i got to talk to some personnel in CMPB(figuring that she was a higher up or something cuz the customer service officer of CMPB took down my nirc + handphone no. and got them to call me)so anyways i spoke to her,she did ask me some questions that i believe might have something to do with actually evading NS,Such as does ur family overseas?,educated overseas? etc but since i didnt hit any of this critieria she clearly mentioned that i would be classified as a NS defaulter if i didnt go thru NS first.I told about how i will reach a majority of 21 before hitting NS and what ICA told me.She said that cmpb will reject/stop my renouncation of sg citizenship.So i guess unless i wanna meet my folks at johor bahru i guess i have to go=(.Shackled i am.
Kinda weird tho after what MINDEF told me...
Cheers,i hope this helps

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 09 Feb 2010 3:04 am

Lunchboxes wrote:i'd like to apologise for the late reply,i was having one hell of a packed week.Yeah Well basically i got to talk to some personnel in CMPB(figuring that she was a higher up or something cuz the customer service officer of CMPB took down my nirc + handphone no. and got them to call me)so anyways i spoke to her,she did ask me some questions that i believe might have something to do with actually evading NS,Such as does ur family overseas?,educated overseas? etc but since i didnt hit any of this critieria she clearly mentioned that i would be classified as a NS defaulter if i didnt go thru NS first.I told about how i will reach a majority of 21 before hitting NS and what ICA told me.She said that cmpb will reject/stop my renouncation of sg citizenship.So i guess unless i wanna meet my folks at johor bahru i guess i have to go=(.Shackled i am.
Kinda weird tho after what MINDEF told me...
Cheers,i hope this helps


I hate to tell you this but I already knew the answer from the beginning. Most Mindef and CMPB front counter is manned by NS enlistee. They have no clue on what you are asking as they themselves is serving NS at a lesser role than others.
Those supervisors are the person who should talk to.
Even if your family is overseas aor yourself educated overseas, there are stringent checks b4 they can cross you out.
My advise do the NS and renounce as you are already 21 at least you do not burn bridges after that. It will be a breeze.

Mad Scientist(':)')
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 09 Feb 2010 7:07 am

As I posted earlier.........

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
While ICA and Mindef are separate, ICA will not grant renunciation until it has checked with Mindef. So while ICA said you can renounce, they won't grant it until Mindef has extracted their ounce of flesh. Of that you can count on.


As MS noted, we already knew the answer to this one.


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