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Would you become a Singapore citizen if...

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:13 am

:cool:

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Splatted
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Re: Would you become a Singapore citizen if...

Postby Splatted » Sun, 07 Feb 2010 10:26 am

aster wrote:... you weren't required to relinquish your current citizenship?

At present you are required to denounce your current citizenship (and provide proof of doing so) before being granted your Singapore citizenship. What would you do if the laws changed and you no longer had to give up your current passport? :)


Yes, I would. Singapore 'PR' is not truly 'permanent'.

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Postby jpatokal » Mon, 08 Feb 2010 2:42 pm

Calmday wrote:Then I’m assuming that since you disagree with the government and who the ally themselves with that you would NOT want to be a citizen of Singapore. NS is a non issue for you then.

Do you really agree with everything your own government does? If yes, and they elect the opposition, are you going to resign your citizenship in protest? :???:
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Postby SGBoyxxx » Mon, 08 Feb 2010 5:04 pm

Calmday wrote:
revhappy wrote:Once you are a PR you have already taken into account NS and CPF withholding as the 2 negatives.

I have to ask again. What is so negative about NS?
As an ex military guy I dont understand people not wanting to serve the place that they call home.

To answer the original question. Of coarse I would become a citizen if given the chance and could keep my US citizenship. Even if it meant NS.


seriously now I think back our local NS is not "really" that tough
compare to russian..their army training is :o

SG army is train more on defend.....

:wink:

tough is lol what time book out go back home !

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Postby Calmday » Tue, 09 Feb 2010 7:58 pm

jpatokal wrote:
Calmday wrote:Then I’m assuming that since you disagree with the government and who the ally themselves with that you would NOT want to be a citizen of Singapore. NS is a non issue for you then.

Do you really agree with everything your own government does? If yes, and they elect the opposition, are you going to resign your citizenship in protest? :???:
No I do not agree with a lot of things that my government does but I do agree with the founding principles. It was an honor to serve the US. If I was a PR or citizen of Singapore it would be an honor to serve there as well.
My original point was that you can’t eat your cake and have it too. Every time I open this web site there is some weenie trying to get out of NS. I just don’t get it. Serving your home is an honor. If you disagree with the government so much that you aren’t willing to defend it then don’t ever get into a position that you will be expected too.
Like I said above. If Singapore would grant me citizenship with out me having to renounce my US citizenship, I would jump at the chance. Serving NS would be an honor not something to try and weasel out of. It doesn’t make any sense at all to want to be a citizen of a nation that you disagree with so much that you won’t serve it.

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Postby jpatokal » Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:55 am

Calmday wrote:My original point was that you can’t eat your cake and have it too. Every time I open this web site there is some weenie trying to get out of NS. I just don’t get it. Serving your home is an honor. If you disagree with the government so much that you aren’t willing to defend it then don’t ever get into a position that you will be expected too.


See, the problem in Singapore is that these cake-eating "weenies" -- or, rather, their parents -- have to make the call of whether or not to do PR when said weenie is 11 or 13, and hardly in a position to decide where and how to live the rest of their lives.

Most countries give you until age 18 or 21 to decide if you're going to be a citizen or not (and serve in the army or not), since by that time, you will hopefully have some basis to make a rational decision.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:23 pm

JP, the parents know full well they are putting the weenies in that position when they take up PR. Just because the parents don't think means the weenies are supposed to be forgiven their obligations? Every parent could then say, we are stupid and shouldn't have been given PR in the first place, therefore, because we are so stupid, can you let our weenies off the hook? The buck has to stop somewhere and that is with the parents who put the kid there in the first place. Or the obvious solution and do away with the silly NS for PRs - I don't agree with it either - NS for PRs that is. Citizenship? NS by all means. What I'm on about is the law, whether we like it or not.

Anyway, it'll do the kids good.

Although in your case I'll reserve judgment (but that wasn't Singapore's military anyway!) :P

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Postby ksl » Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:29 pm

NS is no problem, for those that have been volunteer professionals! Though today we have all seen the unnecessary suffering of human life and for what, a better world :???: I'm kind of against invasive armies for no other reasons, than political clout these days.

When i think back to the 22 year contract i signed, it wasn't about serving my Country, it was about me, escaping the shit hole, travel the world and compete in sports, so more of a adrenalin rush than anything else and the comradery was rock solid, until active combat started and many just wanted out, the adrenalin rush is addictive, and living on the edge is a way of life for many. I loved the army but the army couldn't handle my insubordination, I'm all for respect, but it must be two way, otherwise they can get stuffed no matter what rank, respect is earned at a cost in the military better to close off the hearing aid and bite the tongue :) otherwise the promotion is out of the window !

Singapore citizenship no thanks, but i have no objection to NS, it's just too bloody hot here, to really enjoy the place year in year out, unless you can have the air con on 24/7....many expats I pressume have that perk!

I often wonder how SMS and the others have coped for so long!

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Postby jpatokal » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:08 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Every parent could then say, we are stupid and shouldn't have been given PR in the first place, therefore, because we are so stupid, can you let our weenies off the hook?

It's not a question of letting them off the hook, it's a question of letting the weenies decide for themselves: do NS and stay in Singapore because they genuinely want to, or give up PR/citizenship and move to their second home country. Now the parents make that choice, and then you occasionally end up with people like the guy we had here a while ago who's unable to return to Singapore even though he wants to and is willing to complete NS as well.

Although in your case I'll reserve judgment (but that wasn't Singapore's military anyway!) :P

Not sure how relevant my case is -- I dutifully completed my NS, but being the citizen and resident of just one country at the time, I didn't have a much of a choice in the matter. (It's not particularly easy to emigrate as an 17-year-old, esp. once they stop renewing your passport...)
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:53 pm

jpatokal wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Anyway, it'll do the kids good.

Although in your case I'll reserve judgment (but that wasn't Singapore's military anyway!) :P


Not sure how relevant my case is -- I dutifully completed my NS, but being the citizen and resident of just one country at the time, I didn't have a much of a choice in the matter. (It's not particularly easy to emigrate as an 17-year-old, esp. once they stop renewing your passport...)


My comment about your NS was regarding "doing the kids good". I was just having a poke at you for something you mentioned about how you went through your NS in a thread long ago - re: whether on not NS helps one to grow up and be responsible, nothing more. :wink:

My take is I think it makes more sense for the Government to inconvenience a couple rather than inconvenience the country's military. Yeah, I know, how many could that possibly be. 3, maybe 400 a year? I am actually thinking that those estimates are on the extreme low side as a high portion of those immigrating are doing so 'because' they have male offspring. I based my figures on a 50:50 distribution of male:female offspring. Duration of military service is what, till 40? We are then talking about a minimum of 6 to 8,000 men assuming immigration numbers remain the same although they have been increasing each year for some time. With a total military of only 370K at max call-up of reserves that equates to over 2% of its manpower. So maybe they are being mean but with limited manpower it's easy to see why. Especially considering the number that keel over in training because their maids aren't allowed to carry their backpacks for them. :-|

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Postby Superglide » Fri, 12 Feb 2010 6:52 pm

Each and every one's personal opinions respected, but I would strongly suggest those, who after a few years in Singapore, think of taking up Singapore citizenship, to spend a few more years, before taking that decision.

The glitter and glamour of the tropical country called Singapore, often does not last as long as a lifetime, but the decision is for a lifetime.

I for one am very happy I never took up the Singapore citizenship, when I had the chance to do so.
If only we could pull out our brain and use only our eyes.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:03 pm

I would definitely second that thought! For once you and I see eye to eye 100%! :P

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:11 pm

Shock horror, I agree with Superglide too!

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Postby Superglide » Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:14 pm

:)
If only we could pull out our brain and use only our eyes.

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Postby aster » Sat, 13 Feb 2010 1:33 pm

Superglide wrote:Each and every one's personal opinions respected, but I would strongly suggest those, who after a few years in Singapore, think of taking up Singapore citizenship, to spend a few more years, before taking that decision.

The glitter and glamour of the tropical country called Singapore, often does not last as long as a lifetime, but the decision is for a lifetime.

I for one am very happy I never took up the Singapore citizenship, when I had the chance to do so.


The initial glamour wears off after several weeks or months, then comes the worst part when you start being negative and only focus on the worst aspects.

But after that you realise how great this country is and you appreciate the fact that you live here. Maybe it's just me and my line of work where everything is flexible, but I cannot think of a better place that I would prefer to live in. I've been a resident of several countries, visited many, many more... but (surprisingly) Singapore feels more like home than anywhere else. The only time I feel like a foreigner is when I board a SQ flight to somewhere else.


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