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Postby ceej1979 » Sat, 23 Jan 2010 9:59 am

Hi,

Follow up to my original point. I've been offered $3000 a month for an Editor role on a journal.

Quite a few people, including my cousing already out there, says that would be underpaying me. On the basis that if they want to bring me over from the UK, they must be pretty keen.

My issue being. I had to do some big time negociating with their people to basically get a job, without really interviewing too heavily. The entire process was just going to meet one of their people in London. It was just a 30 minute, friendly, casual chat. That's basically it.

They told me that they wanted to make me an offer on the basis of this meeting, but had to authorise it with the Chairman.

Anyway, the chairman came back and said he wouldn't authorise it, unless i came to Singapore for a second interview.

I basically refused - just on the basis that the entire process had already been going on for 6 months, and it kind of seemed that it was never ending. Always something new to do for them.

Anyway, they then came back, and said that the Senior Managers had gone back to the chairman, and they'd convinced him to make me an offer, without the second interview.

Which is the $3000 a month.

So, I'm wondering whether it can really be pushed any more? Is that an offer of a company who are maybe prerpared to take a risk on me, but not that too big a risk!

Maybe a "let's bring him over and see what he's like" offer?

On a different note, I've actually researched the market for the role, and the average wage for the job appears to be about $3000 anyway.

Is there any scope for more money in light of this? Should I expect more just because I'd be moving out there?

thanks

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Postby irvine » Sat, 23 Jan 2010 3:08 pm

Your title gonna be Editor? Then you should be paid way more than $3000.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 23 Jan 2010 3:46 pm

irvine wrote:Your title gonna be Editor? Then you should be paid way more than $3000.


Not quite. If you have been here long enough you will already realize that a person's job title has absolutely nothing to do with the job itself. It's a habit that the local bosses use to give face to the employee. The Accountant in most companies would be given a title of bookkeeper in the west, An Accounts Executive is nothing more than a salesman or salesclerk.

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Postby ceej1979 » Sun, 24 Jan 2010 5:45 am

irvine wrote:Your title gonna be Editor? Then you should be paid way more than $3000.


Yeah, I will be an editor. The person below is partly right though. These days the term Editor, even in the UK, refers to more of a mid level publisher.

Most titles have several editors - although you do have senior responsibilities, it's not maybe what you are thinking - as in, your not in charged of the title.

Publishing these days.

new grads generally start as editorial assistants
When this grad has maybe 3 years in that role, they'll be an editor
After maybe 10 years you'll be a publisher.

Your probably talking a 20-21k role in the UK - editor.

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Postby ceej1979 » Sun, 24 Jan 2010 5:48 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
irvine wrote:Your title gonna be Editor? Then you should be paid way more than $3000.


Not quite. If you have been here long enough you will already realize that a person's job title has absolutely nothing to do with the job itself. It's a habit that the local bosses use to give face to the employee. The Accountant in most companies would be given a title of bookkeeper in the west, An Accounts Executive is nothing more than a salesman or salesclerk.


The term Editor is actually overplayed in the UK as well. When people hear it, they assume you are in charge of the title.

You do make a lot of the decisions on the title. But there are numerous Editors doing the same.

It's just a mid level publishing role. 20-23k a year in the uk?

I'm pretty happy with the role though. The duties tie in almost exactly with Editor roles in the UK.

Job seems pretty idential to UK editor roles. In fact, maybe a bit more responsibility

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:24 pm

I wasn't really referring to the advertising campaign (Job Description) on the tin. I was referring to the actual taste of the contents of the tin when consumption starts. ;)

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Postby ceej1979 » Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:43 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I wasn't really referring to the advertising campaign (Job Description) on the tin. I was referring to the actual taste of the contents of the tin when consumption starts. ;)


Yeah, I see what you mean.

I'm actually more concerned that they are actually underplaying what I am going to be doing!

When I've been speaking to them, my current job in England seems to actually fully cover 2 of their current roles. They seem to have 2 people doing it.

When I met them in London, that's the impression I kind of got - that a lot of my current duties go beyond what the advertised job entails, and cross over into other jobs.

Rather unnervingly, when I was disucssing the whole process of start dates, they told me to take my time with the relocation, as (to paraphrase):

"this is your role only. It's not a vacancy. You are not replacing anyone who has left. It's a new role we have created. No one else will be offered it".

So, I'm really kind of thinking, they will have me doing all sorts, if the visa thing works out. I'm kind of thing:

25% editor duties, 25% networking with European/Americans, 25% writing, 25% being hawked around every conference in Asia as the company "caucasian".

Perceptive? Or sceptical!?

Either way, I'll really look forward to it, if I get a visa!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 24 Jan 2010 2:15 pm

To paraphrase a famous line in a famous musical, "By Jove, I think he's got it!" :cool:

Oh, as far as the job creation goes, that happens. Especially if the company is looking like it's poised to take off. My position was created for me in what will be 5 years ago this coming June. They had a "Accountant" and an "HR Executive cum payroll clerk" and we had a staffing strength of 65 in the company. As the HR & Finance Manager I now have a 4 man department and we have helped propel the company to a 200+ group of 5 companies.

So..... there might be something good at the end of the tunnel as well if the company is in that kind of position. You could be on the cusp of a major expansion which, if successful, always looks good on the CV as well in the future.

Good Luck to you.

sms

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Postby ceej1979 » Sun, 24 Jan 2010 3:28 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:To paraphrase a famous line in a famous musical, "By Jove, I think he's got it!" :cool:

Oh, as far as the job creation goes, that happens. Especially if the company is looking like it's poised to take off. My position was created for me in what will be 5 years ago this coming June. They had a "Accountant" and an "HR Executive cum payroll clerk" and we had a staffing strength of 65 in the company. As the HR & Finance Manager I now have a 4 man department and we have helped propel the company to a 200+ group of 5 companies.

So..... there might be something good at the end of the tunnel as well if the company is in that kind of position. You could be on the cusp of a major expansion which, if successful, always looks good on the CV as well in the future.

Good Luck to you.

sms


I've been reading the company newsletters online this week. It seems to me that Asia are planning an all out war on European/American publishers.

They dominate the markets, and China, Singapore, Malaysia don't get a look in at the minute. China actually create most of the papers/articles/research, but they send it to the west to publish it.

As an example, my company publishes most of the top chinese academic journals here in the UK. Asia hasn't got the trust level yet to handle the top stuff.

Quite simply on the basis that a lot of USA and UK journal companies were formed in the 1850s. They are very old and very respected.

I think the oldest journal publisher in Asia was formed in 1982 or something like that.

Sort of playing catch up.

Anyway, it seems Singapore, Malaysia, China, Japan have all joined forces to create an asian publishing alliance, to take on the Americans and British.

I guess the theory being that they will just keep more chines/japanese papers in asia (a lot of the market), and cut the west off.

The problem being that they are yet to realise that the west don't actually want 99% of these papers anyway (Through the sheer number of people, China tend to flood western publishers with mediocrity) and will be very very happy if stay in asia. They will never be able to stop the very best papers ending up in the states, or the uk, until they catch up on the publishing side, and offer the same services, and visibility.

So I think you are totally right. They will be looking for big expansion in the next 10 years. They seem to have a concerted plan to make big dents into the western markets.

On a parting note, another funny thing I noticed, hile interviewing for this role.

Singaporean publishing companies tend to boast about how many papers they publish each year. And seem to want to publish as many as humanly possible.

UK publishers tend to boast about how few papers they publish each year.
They actually boast about how many they turn down.


In singapore, it's about sheer size, scale, of the titles, and article numbers

UK it's all about exclusivity, snobbery, and "only the best get our seal of approval".

Probably a very good analogy for the 2 cultures!

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Postby ceej1979 » Sun, 24 Jan 2010 3:32 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:To paraphrase a famous line in a famous musical, "By Jove, I think he's got it!" :cool:

Oh, as far as the job creation goes, that happens. Especially if the company is looking like it's poised to take off. My position was created for me in what will be 5 years ago this coming June. They had a "Accountant" and an "HR Executive cum payroll clerk" and we had a staffing strength of 65 in the company. As the HR & Finance Manager I now have a 4 man department and we have helped propel the company to a 200+ group of 5 companies.

So..... there might be something good at the end of the tunnel as well if the company is in that kind of position. You could be on the cusp of a major expansion which, if successful, always looks good on the CV as well in the future.

Good Luck to you.

sms


On a more bland note, sorry for the simplicity of this question, but an answer would be appreciated, because I won't get to talk to my HR guy in Singapore until Tuesday, and time is of the essence.

Do you quite literally have to include a passport photo with your EP application.

The issue being, I'm in London, they are thousands of miles away. It may well take a week to get there by post.

Could I send them a passport sized, style electronic image via e-mail, seeing as they will be submitting it online?

Or can it proceed without it, and they can pass the form on later?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 24 Jan 2010 3:43 pm

Send the employer an electronic file photo via email AND attach a hardcopy photo with the hard copy application form - send it via courier - should arrive +/- 3 days.

ceej1979 wrote:In singapore, it's about sheer size, scale, of the titles, and article numbers

UK it's all about exclusivity, snobbery, and "only the best get our seal of approval".

Probably a very good analogy for the 2 cultures!


Also probably why Asia is leaving the West in the dust as well! :wink:

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Postby banker » Mon, 25 Jan 2010 1:57 am

ceej1979 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
irvine wrote:Your title gonna be Editor? Then you should be paid way more than $3000.


Not quite. If you have been here long enough you will already realize that a person's job title has absolutely nothing to do with the job itself. It's a habit that the local bosses use to give face to the employee. The Accountant in most companies would be given a title of bookkeeper in the west, An Accounts Executive is nothing more than a salesman or salesclerk.


The term Editor is actually overplayed in the UK as well. When people hear it, they assume you are in charge of the title.

You do make a lot of the decisions on the title. But there are numerous Editors doing the same.

It's just a mid level publishing role. 20-23k a year in the uk?

I'm pretty happy with the role though. The duties tie in almost exactly with Editor roles in the UK.

Job seems pretty idential to UK editor roles. In fact, maybe a bit more responsibility


It's not something new SMS throwing his stereotype views on Singapore. It may be because he lost touch with the rest of the world as he lived so long here....Having thousands of vice-presidents and hundreds of Director in a bank common through-out the world...

A Job Title search in US job site monster gives 2585 jobs for Accountant and 364 jobs for bookkeeper...

It is time to change his stereotype view of about Singapore and Asia as the corporate world is converging in a flat world...
I love Singapore

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 25 Jan 2010 6:49 am

And now we know why the banks are failing don't we. Again, in your haste to condemn, you have just proven my point. I didn't say it didn't happen elsewhere,but as an HR Manager and former headhunter in Singapore I was speaking about what happens here (and it's not stereotype if it actually happens). Actually, your moniker fits you well, narrow minded and cannot see beyond the end of your nose. :wink:

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Postby ceej1979 » Mon, 25 Jan 2010 9:28 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Send the employer an electronic file photo via email AND attach a hardcopy photo with the hard copy application form - send it via courier - should arrive +/- 3 days.

ceej1979 wrote:In singapore, it's about sheer size, scale, of the titles, and article numbers

UK it's all about exclusivity, snobbery, and "only the best get our seal of approval".

Probably a very good analogy for the 2 cultures!


Also probably why Asia is leaving the West in the dust as well! :wink:


Tell me about it. UK/US publishers ride reputation. They're western, they are very old - it's like you have to publish with them to have "made it".

In 50 years time, it may well be all Asia. Just because they can do it a lot cheaper, they work a lot harder, and they probably want it a little bit more as well.

It's kind of like going to Oxford University. Over say, Sheffield University. Sheffield is head and shoulders above Oxford, in regards to studying Science. As they devote a lot of budget to it.

But top young scientists still want to graduate with a Physics degree from Oxford, because people like Issac Newton went their, and the overall scientitic reputation it has that it has. Vased on little more than things that happened a hundreds of years ago.

That's exactly how it is. Asia is Sheffield. West is Oxford. People just send their business to Oxford as they want their historical seal of approval.

The question is, how long will the west just be able to live off the rep!

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Postby ceej1979 » Mon, 25 Jan 2010 9:39 pm

banker wrote:
ceej1979 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
irvine wrote:Your title gonna be Editor? Then you should be paid way more than $3000.


Not quite. If you have been here long enough you will already realize that a person's job title has absolutely nothing to do with the job itself. It's a habit that the local bosses use to give face to the employee. The Accountant in most companies would be given a title of bookkeeper in the west, An Accounts Executive is nothing more than a salesman or salesclerk.


The term Editor is actually overplayed in the UK as well. When people hear it, they assume you are in charge of the title.

You do make a lot of the decisions on the title. But there are numerous Editors doing the same.

It's just a mid level publishing role. 20-23k a year in the uk?

I'm pretty happy with the role though. The duties tie in almost exactly with Editor roles in the UK.

Job seems pretty idential to UK editor roles. In fact, maybe a bit more responsibility


It's not something new SMS throwing his stereotype views on Singapore. It may be because he lost touch with the rest of the world as he lived so long here....Having thousands of vice-presidents and hundreds of Director in a bank common through-out the world...

A Job Title search in US job site monster gives 2585 jobs for Accountant and 364 jobs for bookkeeper...

It is time to change his stereotype view of about Singapore and Asia as the corporate world is converging in a flat world...


For the record, I didn't agree with the original point.

The job duties of an "Editor" in Singapore, are seemingly almost identical to the same role in the UK. In fact, it's probably a more difficult job over there.

My point only was that the term "Editor" even in the UK, is pretty generalistic, in regards to what you actually do.

When people here the term, they think you manage the title. It's really not that way any more. It just refers to a middle ranking publisher on a title.

Most titles in the world will probably have at least 5 Editors working on it. Huge magazines will have 15-20. They all report to a publisher. They report to an Editor in Chief.

What most people associate with Editor, is actually the Editor-in-Chief these days. And senior magazine staff members are generally the modern term "publisher" rather than Editor.

Editor at the minute is a mid ranking member of staff. Above Admin assistants, editorial assistants, publishing assitants. But below Publishers and the editor in chief.

In the UK, your talking a 19-23k a year job. Starting at about 19.

That's why I'm a bit wary about asking for too much money on my cousin's advice. I think he thinks "Editor" is a very senior job.

You know, you'd probably get 20k a year in the UK at most at the minute.

If $3000, with Singapore taxation, is similar to say 20k with UK taxation, then it's probably a fair wage.

What do you think?


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