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Dating a Muslim girlfriend

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moloch71
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Re: Dating a Muslim girlfriend

Postby moloch71 » Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:42 pm

berkshire_yorkie wrote:Hi,
The obvious option is to go through with a conversion for the sake of outward appearances and do the bare minimum to maintain this position; I've heard that people do it, but whilst pragmatic, it's also being dishonest to one's self.


It all depends on the basis for doing it. I have a muslim gf myself based in Singapore, and her reasons for me REVERTING (read below) are twofold; firstly to appease and honour her parents, but more importantly to coordinate a united front when we have children and their pious education.
Now I currently consider myself agnostic (some call it a lazy aethist), so I do not commit there is/isnt a god, and for me to worship deity that Im not quite convinced is there does not sit well in my mind.
But take the advice of an earlier poster, that what may begin as an acceptable of another's ways, if you keep an open mind then you are atleast doing the right thing by yourself in duly considering it. Perhaps as you learn more things will change. In this way you are not being dishonest to yourself or to a faith you are trying to comprehend.

Now onto matters of islam as my (limited) research has taught me so far:

First of all, it is called reverting not conversion, because in the faith all people start off as muslims, so becoming one you are actually reverting back.

Pork: obviously pork is forbidden, as is pork derivatives. Some people dont realise this also means lard (pork fat), or things cooked with it - often some pastries are out of bounds like lardie cake (english delicacy), donuts, hot cross buns, etc
Interestingly the bible also forbade consumption of pork, but its not practised anymore. I guess pork in earlier centuries was a much more major health risk than it is today; although pregnant women should still avoid it.

Alcohol: this is one muslims seem to break first, which is ironic because I dont drink anyway because it just messes up my system !

Circumcision: Not compulsory for reverting adults, however if you were becoming a jew it is ! Compulsory for islamic children however; again probably an ancient hygiene issue, but more likely a social pacification thing.

Compulsory reverting: if a man marries a muslim wife he must revert prior, however it is not compulsory for the wife if the man is a muslim - go figure

Name changing: the stuff ive read seems to suggest most reverts change their name willingly, but unless your name is considered blaphemous then it is not compulsory. Opinion in this thread seems to contradict that ?


Alot of the ideals of islam make alot of sense to me in the time of Mohammed (blessed be his name). But by the very ideal of islam was that it was reinventing christianity , that it considered had become corrupted by 500AD. This makes it by its very foundation, inflexible in its strictest application.
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..

Postby mayaray » Tue, 02 Feb 2010 4:47 pm

Interestingly my best friend's hubby also did not get circumcised. The authorities just asked him if he was circumcised and he said 'yes'. No pull 'down pants for inspection' requirement, thankfully!

regarding name change- it's compulsory in malaysia. In fact if you choose a too modern sounding name which is not found in the holy Quran, it will get rejected by the officials. So my best friend's hubby had to have a new 'islamic' name picked out for him.

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wow

Postby phillyrock » Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:20 am

hey!

i dont think so you should convert to islam just because you wanna marry a muslim. Im a muslim (indonesian but american nationality). i have a girlfriend for about 5 years and we about to get marry. She's white mix with chinese (christian). both of us personally think that we shouldnt change our religion. my family said ok with it. but her family totaly againts it. i think they hate it the fact im muslim. although have family blessing is a plus but i think its our life and we the one that need to make the decision. im not sure if u singaporean or foreigner. if u a foreigner i recommend u to get marry in ur country. like my case we getting marry in america. if u need more help let me kno.

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Postby Splatted » Tue, 02 Mar 2010 1:04 pm

berkshire_yorkie wrote:
SGBoyxxx wrote:no pork for you


That's ok can live without. Won't stop drinking though but my gf enjoys the occasional sip as well 8-)



I could be mistaken, but it sounds like she's only a nominal Muslim, eg taken on the religion because she was born into it or told to, rather than any real conversion experience. (I say this only because the strict Muslims that I have worked with or who come to me for advice, are quite against eating any product that have even traces of alcohol in it)

Perhaps talk with her - you might find that she doesn't really worry as much about the religion question as what you might think.

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Postby Big Guns » Mon, 03 May 2010 8:02 am

I've recently sat through the course that enables me to marry my fiance. I never refer to it as a conversion; but rather a certification.
A certification because I'm not a muslim simply because I don't practice Islam. Personally, this process was difficult to deal with because I'm a proud (athiest) person.

I was very very close to walking away from her, but before I had any regrets about leaving, I felt that I owed it to myself to learn more.

Everyone has an opinion on islam but as was mentioned in a previous post, I believe that the islamic life style would have been of benefit to society 500 yrs ago but in very few ways is it relevant to todays society.
I continue reading about Islam so I can ask questions to highlight its irrelevancy in todays world (it's not what you ask, but how you ask it).

The main thing is that you & your partner have a clear understanding of how you'll live your life post marriage.

My predicament now is that I'm not willing to change my name. It's not essential for me to do so, yet its still expected of me for the sake of pleasing ancestry. The narrow mindedness is dumbfounding.

After two years of cold resentment from her family, they've finally comes to terms with the fact that I'm not walking away.
Anyway .... the saga continues.

In hindsight, I would not have gotten myself tangled up in such a mess. I didn't occur to me that communities willingly make life so complicated for themselves.
My girlfriend has turned her back on family wishes in favour of me on many accasions & I could only imagine how difficult that would have been for her.
I sometimes hope that more athiests breed with muslims in order to expel this narrowminded mentality. Religion is a personal choice.

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Postby moloch71 » Mon, 03 May 2010 8:22 am

Big Guns wrote:I sometimes hope that more athiests breed with muslims in order to expel this narrowminded mentality. Religion is a personal choice.


hee hee hee - couldnt help giggling at this.

especially in light of other recent narrowminded events:
http://www.news.com.au/world/new-yorks- ... 5861408328
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Postby waz » Mon, 03 May 2010 8:42 am

I find it very interesting comment on the Islamic religion when I believe the writers are not aware of many aspect and implication.

For a Muslim, there are few schools of thought and interpretation of the Quran, as do with the bible etc.

Which ever option one chooses, he or she has to follow that doctrine. There are other doctrines which is followed by a number which had been deemed as not accepted by Islam.

My point is, it is not about you or your partner converting.

There are many so called Muslim. But in the eye of Islam, they are out of it. There is no such thing as a non-practicing Muslim. Either you are one or not. Yes, people commit sins, but they will always have that thought in back of their mine if they are still in the religion. I am sure they had some basic foundation in their younger days.

As for the religion being strict. It is strict on how you perceived it. It tells you to do good. (Though some idiots have a wrong interpretation on what good is). You do your prayer regularly because that is the essence of the religion - you are living for God. When you are committed to it, you don't find it a problem, as in any other religion.

On eating pork - because of the historical health issues and human's desire. But that does not mean you cannot eat it if that is the only food left or you will die of starvation. On alcohol - do I need to elaborate.

On converting when you don't believe in it, what's the point. Is your partner is THAT person! Why makes life complicated. Why be in a situation where you are not comfortable with your partner relatives if you do not convert. Worst, taking her away from them and makes her feel miserable. Women can hide this until its too late.

Can write more ..... but need to go to work. hee hee.
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Postby moloch71 » Mon, 03 May 2010 8:55 am

waz wrote:On converting when you don't believe in it, what's the point. Is your partner is THAT person! Why makes life complicated. Why be in a situation where you are not comfortable with your partner relatives if you do not convert. Worst, taking her away from them and makes her feel miserable. Women can hide this until its too late.


I think that is EXACTLY the point being debated here waz. If I wasnt expected to convert I wouldnt. But I would never take someone else's religion away from them at all. I respect them, their culture and their beliefs - I would do my upmost to encourage them to continue being the person they are.
Its just unfortunate to 'qualify' as suitable this whole charade certification is demanded of men.

I would definately be interested in reading more of your thoughts on the matter....
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Postby ev-disinfection » Mon, 03 May 2010 9:24 am

I think that Waz's post is very good......
You should hang around here Waz,

Regards
Terence

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Postby waz » Mon, 03 May 2010 12:32 pm

Hi moloch71, and all.

Sometimes things are just not meant to be - due to religion and cultural differences.

Personally, you owe to your partner to learn about the religion. No compulsion in conversion. And after awhile if you still feel not convince, then be frank to your partner. Decide whether to move on or not.

And not all Malay/Muslim ladies have similar view of marriage outside the religion. Some are naive to the requirement while some are over-zealous.
The partner you met in a bar is definitely different to that you meet at other establishment - in terms of their attitude and behavior. It is not whether which is better but the values they hold. There are exceptions in anything.

The thing about Islam is that it is not only a religion, but a way of life. Your life is governed by God's commandment - a concept hard to understand by some non-Muslims. That's why it is always a complicated matter when the partner is of a different religion. The rules tend be specific in certain areas. Even in Singapore, which has acknowledged some of this criteria, the Syariah Law (Singapore version) takes over certain aspect.

Now don't get jumpy when I used the term Syariah Law. Whatever you heard or read of its notoriety, it is something many people misunderstood. Unfortunately many version of the Syariah Law (overseas) are influenced by culture, and tainted by abuses.

For simple example, for stealing, the punishment is to cut the hand. However, many corrupt governments did not take into account of the pre-condition to that. If a person is a destitute or homeless, then that rule cannot be apply - as in the Quran. Instead the government is in the wrong for not providing its people with shelter and food. Now I am sure the latter won't happened.

Sometimes it take great love and sacrifice to leave someone - all for the betterment of the future for both parties.

I had experience it myself. But after it ended 20 years back, I have my own family and she has hers. We still keep tab on each other development. Most importantly, I am happy for hers (life and family) and she is for mine.

I am an engineer ..... equipment don't give problem, but people do.
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Re: Dating a Muslim girlfriend

Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 03 May 2010 1:05 pm

moloch71 wrote: Mohammed (blessed be his name).


You're taking the piss, right? :D



Ah, the old Muslim/non-Muslim relationship issue . . .


Best way: Superglide-way. Get the heck out of Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia etc... and do what YOU believe is right, not your relatives nor some fat bastards reciting the Qu'ran and advocating that pregnant women be caned for khalwat (proximity) . . .

Honestly, if you knew half of the total bullshit that the sharia court espouses . . . simply mind-boggling.


(We could include the Catholic church but that's not at issue here)
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Postby k1w1 » Tue, 04 May 2010 2:20 pm

waz wrote:
Personally, you owe to your partner to learn about the religion.



Just out of curiosity, do you think the Muslim partner owes it his/her partner to find out about their religion too?

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Postby Girl_Next_Door » Tue, 04 May 2010 4:44 pm

I have several Muslim colleagues and friends, and there is a recurring question that my Belgium bf always ask, which I can never answer him.

My Muslim colleagues and friends claimed to be religious, i.e. they don't eat pork and they fast during Ramadan. However, they gamble and drink alcohol, regularly. The BIG question is, why is it wrong for them to eat pork but they can gamble and drink? Ain't gambling and drinking, a greater sin, as compared to eating pork?

Anyone has an answer?

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Postby Vaucluse » Tue, 04 May 2010 5:15 pm

They're all haram. One is not more, or less, of a sin than the others . . although Muslims are allowed to eat pork if there is no alternative . . . the same does not apply to gambling nor drinking alcohol
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Postby JR8 » Tue, 04 May 2010 5:40 pm

I married a muslim. Did I convert.... did I hell.


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