Dating a Muslim girlfriend

[carteki]

This is a decision that you alone need to make. You cannot force your parents decision and all of you will need to live with the consequences. Unfortunately this is life.

question - you say you don't eat pork for health reasons?

[durain]

she said "due to hygiene reasons". so wagyu pork should be OK as they are nice and clean.

i cant walk pass a bak kwa store without buying any for the kids! and their usual food court meal is roast pork rice. yeah, people look at us, even more when we go to JB to jalan-jalan, but what the hell... we are happy! we are living our life for ourselves, not for anyone else.

[bytruffle]

In many sense, I do agree I am not very Muslim. I choose and pick the faiths I believe in, I pray when I can, I fast dutifully, etc.

Thanks for your feedback. It is true that it's my marriage and ever-after, after all. Thankfully, I have a man who is man enough to speak to my parents. Let's see what happens after this.

Cheers.

[beppi]

so wagyu pork should be OK as they are nice and clean.

"Wagyu" literally means "Japanese style beef".
There is no "wagyu pork"!

[buyan]

Why convert because you feel pressured or for "convenience"? That would be weakness, a lie to yourself and everyone around you, and would commit your children to the same with no way for them to choose their own religion. I suggest you both convert...to atheism - after all, I'm sure you've both already "breached" Islam by doing things you "shouldn't" do when not married! (unless you're both angels)

[carteki]

@Beppi - the issue is the parents response to the marriage. Hubby's coversion would make that easier for them, but hubby doesn't want to - for exactly the reasons you give in that it wouldn't be a true conversion.

[Mad Scientist]

In many sense, I do agree I am not very Muslim. I choose and pick the faiths I believe in, I pray when I can, I fast dutifully, etc.

Thanks for your feedback. It is true that it's my marriage and ever-after, after all. Thankfully, I have a man who is man enough to speak to my parents. Let's see what happens after this.

Cheers.

Reading thru your post, you should know this verse from Quran

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.”

[ksl]

I have always been under the impression that it was against Our Lords wish, to pray to any symbolic form of himself as the house of the lord is ourselves. The difference between good & bad is quite clear isn't it.

Parents responses to marriage may well be clouded by other issues than just religion too. The mind can be conditioned at a very young age i'm afraid so my opinion would be to leave it up to the bride and groom and not interfere

[maybee]

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[JR8]

Better to keep discussion on the forum so that all can participate. That is the point of a forum after all!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Agreed. We don't have any discussion limits here.

[Mad Scientist]

@Maybee. I disagree a few points

P.S. Civil marriage/picking ideologies to your own thinking will result in 'murtad' I hope you are certain on that.

Murtad means that you are out of Islam i.e reverted or converted to another religion other than Islam whichever way you see it.
As long as you recite the the first pillars of Islam
i.e there is No God but Allah and Muhammad PUBH is the messenger of Allah, you will NOT become Murtad.
Under SG Shariah Law, one has to annul his belief in Islam and strike off his name under Muslim census role before he/she can be declared Murtad
Big Difference from the way you interpreted it.
It is similar to calling one a "Kafir" ie non believer. As long as that Muslim person declare the first pillar and did not annul his religious belief, one cannot call him or her "kafir" although OP consumed alcohol etc

Ideological thinking and questioning the relevance of God will lead to atheism in a Hadis from Bukhari and Muslim narrated by the companions of Muhammad PBUH. This is from the book of Tabrani

Tauhid and Fikr is two different subject. Yours is under Tauhid. If OP sinned herself that will fall under the jurisdiction of Fikr.

Civil marriage is recognised in SG even if you are a Muslim marrying to a non Muslim. I have attend many and there was no repercussion per se.
I am not exactly sure of the repercussion but it seems that no untoward happens to these couples.
At the end of the day this is their choice. "La Iqra Ha Fiddin" which mean there is no compulsion in religion.
The pressure comes within the families and community ''

[Hesione]

Hi All,

I may be rambling here but the point I am trying to make, is about keeping up appearances when it comes to inter-religious unions.

Well, it is a difficult one. The non-Muslim partner can possibly embrace the faith so as to keep the 'village elders' happy, it is also out of respect to and for the elders. The social stigma is what will judge them in how they have brought up their Muslim offsprings. They may be completely liberal but would worry about "what other people would say".

I am fortunate in that while my parents understand that in this part of the world being Malay is synonymous with being Muslim, they are not big believers themselves. Hey, they were the ones who put together the wine list for my wedding and ordered a Cantonese spread for the banquet!

My hb and I got our marriage registered at the ROM in SG and from what I can see, because I am a foreigner (Malaysian), they didn't bat an eyelid even though I am a Malay. Having said that, I personally know of about 11 inter-racial/inter-religious couples from SG who were married under civil law at the ROM in SG. Some are of Malay-Muslim husbands, some are of Malay-Muslim wives.

Personally, I know of two couples, one couple married (civil) near Tahoe (we had a ski party after!) and the other in Bali (on another subject, don't get married at a beach, we could not hear a single thing said!).

All parties involved were mixed; Tahoe couple - Malaysian Muslim Malay hb and American wife (English ancestry wife's family based in Connecticut, therefore, she's white to all curious readers); Bali couple - Lebanese Catholic hb and Singaporean Malay Muslim wife. They also had a Catholic church wedding to be fair to his parents who also had to keep up appearances.

They then returned home and called on kadis to conduct the nikah, no papers signed but all the rituals conducted. These things were done to placate the elders whom, to be fair, also had to keep up appearances. It was all about being diplomatic.

For the Lebanese-S'porean couple, both parents then sat down with close friends for some Lebanese red wine (if I remember correctly, in any case, it was delicious), while for the Malaysian-American couple, they started to bring out the cigar, bottles of malt and chocolates.

What I am trying to say is, no matter how liberal your folks may be, it is always about keeping up appearances and in being diplomatic, the most salient point to note is that you do not embarrass anyone.

Weigh all options. If you wish to be fair to everyone, then all cultural and traditional rituals of the marriage is the way to go.

If you wish to be fair to yourselves, then the civil court marriage is it.

Just my humble take on things. Hope the examples help.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Has your humble take on who is an expat and who isn't changed any yet?

[Hesione]

SMS, you are missing the point.