Singapore Expats Forum

Dating a Muslim girlfriend

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

zilong22
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 15 Nov 2011
Location: Singapore

Postby zilong22 » Tue, 15 Nov 2011 4:32 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:Hey B_Y,
I am a Local chinese, my wife is a Indonesian muslim, we married (CIVIL) in Singapore, I am a free thinker, so my wife follows my believes.
Indonesians are much more relaxed, so no issue for me.

When a girl is younger, they have to listen to their parents,
When she gets married, she will listen and follow her husband.
The parents will say no to you not converting is because of "Face"


Hi ev-disinfection, can I get some advice from you, as your scenario is exactly the same as mine now. I'm a Singaporean Chinese and my gf is a Indonesian Muslim, and we are planning to get married in sg.

My gf parents accept that I will not be converting to Muslim, so now I have to convince my parents that I will not have to convert to Muslim as long as we do our civil marriage in sg.

May I ask what are the religious difficulties that you have faced after your marriage?

zilong22
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 15 Nov 2011
Location: Singapore

Postby zilong22 » Tue, 15 Nov 2011 5:57 pm

Or any non-muslim singaporeans who had a civil marriage with a muslim foreigner can kindly share your experience? I can't sent PMs yet due to too few posts. ~_~"

Also, anyone knows what is the consequences if I were to have a wedding in indonesia as a muslim? It is kind of a requirement for both the groom and bride to be of same religion to have a wedding there.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Tue, 15 Nov 2011 6:10 pm

zilong22 wrote:Or any non-muslim singaporeans who had a civil marriage with a muslim foreigner can kindly share your experience? I can't sent PMs yet due to too few posts. ~_~"

Ev-D is currently working his nuts off, so you would be lucky if he is reading and can reply.

I think many of the things that you will face have already been discussed in this thread, so there is little point in repeating them.



Also, anyone knows what is the consequences if I were to have a wedding in indonesia as a muslim? It is kind of a requirement for both the groom and bride to be of same religion to have a wedding there.

I don't understand what you mean by asking what the consequences would be. You would be a muslim, married to another one, who lives in SG.

I couldn't see what was wrong with your original plan of not converting and having a civil marriage in SG. Plenty have done it before. You will likely face the usual familial issues (weeping mother-in-law asking yet again why her daughter couldn't have just married a good muslim boy), and the kalwat issues in Malaysia and maybe Indon... but like I said these kind of issues have by and large already been discussed in this thread.






zilong22
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 15 Nov 2011
Location: Singapore

Postby zilong22 » Tue, 15 Nov 2011 6:37 pm

Hi JR, thanks for the reply. I have read thru all the posts in this thread and the information has been very helpful. I just like to ask if there is anything else to take note of while preparing for my marriage, other than the letter from MUIS, and the heritage distribution.

Our marriage will be done in sg. But my gf family is requesting to have a simplified wedding ceremony in indo, to make it 'sah', and I need to be a muslim for that period of time only. I'm wondering if I can be a muslim in indo, but still be a non-muslim in sg...

I apologize if i'm not making any sense here. Still feeling that there is a lot of question marks in my head.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Tue, 15 Nov 2011 7:34 pm

zilong22 wrote:Hi JR, thanks for the reply. I have read thru all the posts in this thread and the information has been very helpful. I just like to ask if there is anything else to take note of while preparing for my marriage, other than the letter from MUIS, and the heritage distribution.

Our marriage will be done in sg. But my gf family is requesting to have a simplified wedding ceremony in indo, to make it 'sah', and I need to be a muslim for that period of time only. I'm wondering if I can be a muslim in indo, but still be a non-muslim in sg...

I apologize if i'm not making any sense here. Still feeling that there is a lot of question marks in my head.


Ah so the GFs family, to all intents and purposes, are requiring that you convert. This is probably a face-saving exercise for their benefit.

My mother-in-law came out with a similarly strange idea. That it was OK with them if I didn't convert, but 'It would be nice if you would go to the mosque, and, well you wouldn't be a muslim, but perhaps you could just hold your hands in the correct position and kneel and pray yah?'. :)

In my experience when you are considering marriage, your own plans and the families wishes start as simple. Then progressively more and more wishes (demands) get layered on, and in no time at all you won't be having some 'simplified' muslim ceremony in Indo, you'll be going through the whole works and be a muslim.

Be warned!

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3447
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 3:56 am

zilong22 wrote:Or any non-muslim singaporeans who had a civil marriage with a muslim foreigner can kindly share your experience? I can't sent PMs yet due to too few posts. ~_~"

Also, anyone knows what is the consequences if I were to have a wedding in indonesia as a muslim? It is kind of a requirement for both the groom and bride to be of same religion to have a wedding there.


Let me put on my religious thinking cap as an Indonesian and someone that lives with Muslim in Indonesia, Singapore and Saudi Arabia. I do read the Quran and understand Arabic.
First of all I am not insulting or intent to insult any cultures nor religion
This is two part. Religion and customary
1. In Indonesia, it is customary to have a wedding and theirs is quite a deliberate occasion. More than ever if her parent is the staunch piety type , they will ask you to convert and have it the oath taking before the customary rites. Hence you will be a Muslim. It does not matter if you are not going to "chop" off your big brother or not
If they are not strict which is usually the customs there depending where she is from , then a customary wedding is sufficient and you can register your marriage under civil.
In this case you are not a Muslim. You only happen to marry a Muslim wife

In SG , if you are not a Muslim , you can go thru the process of civil marriage
To be a Muslim , you need to know the five pillars of Islam, the 6 guideline of being a Muslim and you need to take oath of reverting to Islam. For the first 6 months of being a Muslim, you are considered a "Mu'alaf" albeit a new convert. This period is debatable in two school of thought. There is a association in SG called Darul Arqam where you can get more info on this. In the words of the Quran " La Iqra ha fiddin" i.e There is no complusion in religion i.e you are not forced to become a Muslim. So if you chose to go down this route, you need to know the religion first.
Of course in the Quran, you as a non Muslim can marry the women of the book i.e the Book of Injil not the Gospel, There are two school of thoughts here. Anyway this is another matter.
If you wish to remain as status quo and live in Singapore and your future wife is cool about it then this not a major.

But I would like take your attention to a more serious matter, make sure she is allowed by MOM or ICA to get hitch to a local. Or else more complication arise as she may not be allow to reside in SG
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 4:29 am

Mad Scientist wrote: In the words of the Quran " La Iqra ha fiddin" i.e There is no complusion in religion i.e you are not forced to become a Muslim.


One could argue that you aren't forced, it's just that being thrown off a tall building for not doing so is the less attractive option :)

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3447
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 4:42 am

That is so true. Coerce or "forced" or lead into ..........

This is the choice one has to make before making the leap.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

zilong22
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 15 Nov 2011
Location: Singapore

Postby zilong22 » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 1:20 pm

Thanks for the advice guys, appreciate it.

Ya, I guess what's going to happen is that we will 1st register our civil marriage in sg, after getting the marriage approval from MOM.
Have a chinese wedding in sg to appease my family, then go thru the customary rites in indo 'as a muslim' for my gf's family honor.
And lastly will be to apply PR for my wife.

Someone strongly suggested that I should get a legal document written up to state that my wife's family cannot force/pressure me to convert to a muslim after marriage. Haha~

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3447
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 2:23 pm

zilong22 wrote:Thanks for the advice guys, appreciate it.

Ya, I guess what's going to happen is that we will 1st register our civil marriage in sg, after getting the marriage approval from MOM.
Have a chinese wedding in sg to appease my family, then go thru the customary rites in indo 'as a muslim' for my gf's family honor.
And lastly will be to apply PR for my wife.

Someone strongly suggested that I should get a legal document written up to state that my wife's family cannot force/pressure me to convert to a muslim after marriage. Haha~


zilong > nice nick. : Get MOM approval, then marry then apply LTSVP first. Wait 2 years then apply PR. Not so quick. You have to earn a minimum income of $2.8K for LTSVP pass for wife. Sort this out then PR after 2 years.
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

zilong22
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 15 Nov 2011
Location: Singapore

Postby zilong22 » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 2:36 pm

Thanks Mad!

Cool, I didn't know that there is a minimum income for applying LTSVP for spouse. Gonna ask my boss for a raise then. LOL!

If we were to have a baby in sg before my wife gets PR, will there be any problem?

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3447
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 4:38 pm

zilong22 wrote:Thanks Mad!

Cool, I didn't know that there is a minimum income for applying LTSVP for spouse. Gonna ask my boss for a raise then. LOL!

If we were to have a baby in sg before my wife gets PR, will there be any problem?


AS long as your wife in on LTSVP giving birth in SG is not an issue. Your child will be a Sger as you are a local. This will stand in good stead when applying for her PR as she has a SG child
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 5:04 pm

zilong22 wrote: then go thru the customary rites in indo 'as a muslim' for my gf's family honor.

I think you might want to look into this aspect a little more closely to determine clearly what kind of rites will be taking place, as your writing 'as a muslim' suggests you don't think you will 'really' be one. Which of your family members would be going to these rites, you earlier hinted that you had to 'assure your family I'm not going to have to become a muslim'... there is risk of trouble ahead here. Better to be clear on it now so you are in control when the inevitable wedding mission-creep* starts happening!


Someone strongly suggested that I should get a legal document written up to state that my wife's family cannot force/pressure me to convert to a muslim after marriage. Haha~

Can't see that that would help. They can't force you anyway. It would be better that you are clear on your views, and that they are clealry understood before you start out down this path.






* 'Darling, I know that we were only going to have a dinner for close family and friends, and we're now having an open-house for an expected 300 people. And that now I'm also having gift exchange at my parents place. Oh, and you're also having a symbolic one for me in your hotel room. But ma and pa were wondering if we could also go to the mosque to make it all official, it would mean so much to them, that's not a problem is it darling?' :)

zilong22
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue, 15 Nov 2011
Location: Singapore

Postby zilong22 » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 5:24 pm

Thanks again Mad for clarifying on the baby issue. :D

Haha, JR, I just got that part on the marriage ritual clarified. It will be a short vow exchange ritual between my gf and I, and for my father-in-law to hand over his daughter to me. Shouldnt take more than 15mins. Only my family and my gf's family need to be present. The reason why I will become a muslim for the 15mins is because some sentences in the vows talks about Allah. Good thing is that I will not have to wear muslim clothes or go thru the muslim conversion course to do this. No changing of name required too.

Guess my father-in-law is more lenient because my mother-in-law is also a non-muslim when they got married. :P

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3447
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 16 Nov 2011 5:33 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:1. In Indonesia, it is customary to have a wedding and theirs is quite a deliberate occasion. More than ever if her parent is the staunch piety type , they will ask you to convert and have it the oath taking before the customary rites. Hence you will be a Muslim. It does not matter if you are not going to "chop" off your big brother or not
If they are not strict which is usually the customs there depending where she is from , then a customary wedding is sufficient and you can register your marriage under civil.
In this case you are not a Muslim. You only happen to marry a Muslim wife


Damn !! I am right on this one. What did I tell ya !!

Indonesian Muslim tend to be very details and more towards their customary rites than their belief in the religion. This is so apparent. You will find this quite hard to find in SG and M'sia. There are a few but it is far less compare to those in Indonesia. Strangely odd for the most populous Muslim state in the world
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest