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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 9:17 am

:???:

I believe religions were/are created by people, not by Dogs. Therefore, how could it be bastardized if it is, in fact, their creation? :wink:

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 9:28 am

Word.

Vaucluse seems to suggest there is some divine purity in a religions birth, that humans then bastardise. No, it's a crock from square one.

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Postby Vaucluse » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:45 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote::???:

I believe religions were/are created by people, not by Dogs. Therefore, how could it be bastardized if it is, in fact, their creation? :wink:
As you correctly said: 'I believe'. :)

JR8 wrote:Word.

Vaucluse seems to suggest there is some divine purity in a religions birth, that humans then bastardise. No, it's a crock from square one.
I'm far from being a religious nut, but as we always ask religions to prove their existence . . . you seem to be quite certain of your point of view - can you prove it?

I am neither in a position to prove nor disprove anything much, let alone something as complex as religion . . . I'm glad some here can! :wink:
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Postby JR8 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:50 am

The scientific method does not allow one to prove that something does not exist.

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Postby Vaucluse » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 11:10 am

JR8 wrote:The scientific method does not allow one to prove that something does not exist.
So, given your propensity to go all scientific . . . it is enough to state that something doesn't exist? :???:

Hardly scientific, is it?

Ok, let's assume that religion is a man-made phenomenon . . . both major religions abhor violence (let's use the new testament for the Christians here) when not directly attacked. The basic principles, call them laws if you wish, are quite good in nature.

How people use, or mis-use, these principles (laws, tenets, commandments etc...) is the issue here, not whether or not there is a divinity behind these beliefs
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Postby JR8 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 6:18 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
JR8 wrote:The scientific method does not allow one to prove that something does not exist.
So, given your propensity to go all scientific . . . it is enough to state that something doesn't exist? :???:

Hardly scientific, is it?

Lol. I think it is a not unreasonable starting point. Given there is not a scintilla of proof that it does exist.My comment was more regarding proving there is no god. As that is no more possible than proving that 9/11 was not an inside job, and say proving that Princess Diana was not killed in a plot hatched by the Duke of Edinburgh

Ok, let's assume that religion is a man-made phenomenon . . .

The alternative being?


both major religions abhor violence (let's use the new testament for the Christians here) when not directly attacked. The basic principles, call them laws if you wish, are quite good in nature.

I follow your drift, but I think there is quite a bit of evil in all holy books. You know all this 'smiting him down', and 'beating your wife lightly' etc.


How people use, or mis-use, these principles (laws, tenets, commandments etc...) is the issue here, not whether or not there is a divinity behind these beliefs


Ok. well I have to say religion just leaves me cold, so I'm not into starting a big discussion. Apologies if you felt I trod on your toes, it was a late night last night.



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Postby x9200 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 7:09 pm

JR8 wrote:The scientific method does not allow one to prove that something does not exist.

Oh, it does. I.e. you can prove pretty easily that there is no sine > 1.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 7:23 pm

I don't consider maths a science :)

Anyway trigonometry is entirely man-made, hence by definition all of it's base parameters are known.

It is rather like suggesting that one can demonstrate a litre carton of milk will never contain 5 litres. Yes, and... ?

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 7:59 pm

JR8 wrote:It is rather like suggesting that one can demonstrate a litre carton of milk will never contain 5 litres. Yes, and... ?

Good example but I believe you can not prove this that easily :) Ok, I will shut up now.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 9:08 pm

x9200 wrote:
JR8 wrote:It is rather like suggesting that one can demonstrate a litre carton of milk will never contain 5 litres. Yes, and... ?

Good example but I believe you can not prove this that easily :) Ok, I will shut up now.


:D No I used to be into all this stuff (at uni), 'the direction of discovery', the writings of the science philosopher Carl Popper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Popper
... and the whole concept of scientists never setting out to prove something that they do not believe, and therefore any research is based upon a presumption that something is true.

Anyway don worry buddy, we cultivated a pretty damned big herb garden at uni, so they were happy but philosophically complex times 8-)

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Fri, 14 Jan 2011 1:19 am

x9200 wrote:
JR8 wrote:It is rather like suggesting that one can demonstrate a litre carton of milk will never contain 5 litres. Yes, and... ?

Good example but I believe you can not prove this that easily :) Ok, I will shut up now.

If science can prove that the entire universe was contained in an atom, I'm sure it's easier to prove that 5 litres of milk can be contained in a litre carton :mrgreen:

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 14 Jan 2011 2:42 am

Don't bogart that ..one my friend :D :wink:

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 15 Jan 2011 9:44 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:
x9200 wrote:
JR8 wrote:It is rather like suggesting that one can demonstrate a litre carton of milk will never contain 5 litres. Yes, and... ?

Good example but I believe you can not prove this that easily :) Ok, I will shut up now.

If science can prove that the entire universe was contained in an atom, I'm sure it's easier to prove that 5 litres of milk can be contained in a litre carton :mrgreen:

The problem is, science if dealing with external environment (so world, universe etc) can not prove anything. It can only make something less or more probable.* There is never a guaranty that what we perceive or record using the instruments is truthful. I guess it goes along the line of Karl Popper mentioned by JR8. Science is only precise when describing models it created so who knows what is actually in this one liter container? :)

*) with further limitation to its particular time-space piece of "reality".

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 22 Jan 2011 1:34 am


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Postby JR8 » Tue, 25 Jan 2011 6:36 am

No no fishy me ol' China, it is more complicated than that!


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